Rands death

[Alison_Wonderland]

I am re-reading the series in preparation for the release of TGS.  Now I have always wondered about how Rand will fair after the Last Battle.  We already know that in the Land of Robert Jordan, people die and come back.  But how it will work always makes me wonder.  I just finished Winter's Heart, and I noticed something I didn't catch before.  I kinda searched for this, but didn't see Alivia mentioned at all, and was curious to see what you all make of it.

 

In Winter's Heart, there is this conversation between Rand and Min about the turbo powerful Seanchan ex-damane chic.

Min:  “Rand, I like Alivia, But she is going to kill you.”

Rand replies, “You said she was going to help me die… Those were your words.”

 

I'm assuming that has to do with this:

 

Rand's conversation with the Aelfin

"How can I win the Last Battle and survive?"

They answered, "The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. To live, you must die."

 

Somewhere in the books is Nicola's fortelling.

'The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade.'

 

I'm just curious to see how others think this stuff fits with Alivia.

[Avalanchemike]

Either when she first sees Alivia or when Alivia first starts hanging around Rand, Min sees that Alivia will help Rand to die. She doesn't know what Alivia will do, she just assumes it's that she will turn on him one day. That's all there is to it really, but you're probably right when you mention Alivia is going to help those two lines of prophecy come true.

[Hybrid]

 

I'm just curious to see how others think this stuff fits with Alivia.

 

Luckers compiled a big theory on it.  I don't agree with it, but it is an impressive compilation. 

 

Search "Body Swap Theory." 

[Alison_Wonderland]

I don't know why I couldn't find that in the forum search.  I had to google it.  Thanks for the heads up!

 

It's definitely an interesting theory.  In fact, it might also explain why Aviendha's children will be odd if baby makin doesn't occur till after the swap.  :)

[mb]

There have been a number of threads that discussed each of these prophecies; though this is the first with all 3.

 

There are at least these possibilities on how Alivia would help:

-do the actual killing

-assist in the killing

-get Rand ready for his death

 

'he who is dead yet lives' might be a reference to Lews Therin since he lives through Rand.

 

The other prophecy actually has the words 'If you would live' instead of 'to live'.

That prophecy (and others) seems to indicate that Rand would be resurrected.

 

[Durinax]

I think Alivia would help Rand die by helping him get to shayol ghul

[PerinGoldenEyes]

i have posted on another link about this about six months ago but my idea was totaly ignored at that time for the body swap idea to which i think is a load of crap personally, i no that he has put a lot of time and effort into it but i think he is looking into it too much and twisting the way things were said to make it appear to be the only way the story can go.

I dont realy have any idea how she will help him die but i do think he will die not just have his soul put into another body and his actual body die or be killed after.

I think that he will then go to the world of dreams and in a pannic Nyneave will go there and search for him but she will find LTT but it will be LTT & Rand with the memories of both men kind of like a merge of the two of them not Rand AlThor with LTT raving in his head.

She will rip him out of the dream like what happened to Birgitta as she is probably the only person alive except the forsaken to know how to do it because she seen it happen, and somebody will have to bond him to keep him alive maybe Cadsuane Melaidhrin or someone.

This might also explain why Avienda's babies as strange because he will be both Rand AlThor & LTT

So in my theory he does die but yet lives in the world of dreams, the only way for somebody to properly die in this series would be to get hit with bailfire.

And for the beggar thing he has dressed and acted like a beggar before when he was with min and she went and got elayne so maybe he does have anoher reason to be a beggar again.

Please leave your thoughts on my ideas, maybe im talking a load of crap myself, i have only read the series twice so maybe people who have read them more times can disprove my ideas.  :)

[deepak_dragonreborn]

Edit: No TGS talk here.

[humanraindelay]

Here is my theory.

    Rand is LTT reborn. Shemirhage spills the beans about Rand being somewhat insane and it being exceptionally bad because the voices Rand hears are really memories from a past life. Alivea will help Rand die by somehow sheilding him from LTTs memories or cureing the madness thus helping or letting LTT die. Since Rand and LTT are one and the same Mins vision is fullfilled even though Rand doesn't really die. It also fullfills the Aelfin requiremeants.

[Majsju]

Here is my theory.

     Rand is LTT reborn. Shemirhage spills the beans about Rand being somewhat insane and it being exceptionally bad because the voices Rand hears are really memories from a past life. Alivea will help Rand die by somehow sheilding him from LTTs memories or cureing the madness thus helping or letting LTT die. Since Rand and LTT are one and the same Mins vision is fullfilled even though Rand doesn't really die. It also fullfills the Aelfin requiremeants.

 

Rand is LTT reborn, true. He is however not LTT. RJ adressed this difference when asked about why people are so afraid of death, in a world where reincarnation means their soul can still be around. The soul may be the same, but every incarnation is a completely new personality. Rand is a bit messed up because parts of LTTs personality seems to have joined up with his, like the habit of thumbing his earlobe whenever he sees a goodlooking woman, but we are still talking about two separate personalities.

 

Granted, a problem with trying to figure out what the viewing actually means is that we never saw the actual viewing, we have only heard Min and Rand make references to it.

[humanraindelay]

Even though they are two different people, they still share the same soul. The Dragon, along with all the heros of the horn, appearantly get new bodies every time they are spun out. They are not born with the knowledge of there past lives. They have different childhoods, aquaintances and experiences throughout their lives, so they are in fact different people but their core inner part is the same every time. What makes them them is always there.

 

Semirhage said that Rands madness is created by him hearing LTTs voices in his head and that is created by having memories of LTTs life. If Alivea is able to cure the madness, LTT memorise will be allowed to die while Rand is allowed to live.

 

To put it another way, LTT and Rand are both the Dragon fighting for control of Rands head. If LTT Dragon is eliminated or allowed to die, wich he desperately wants, then Rand Dragon gets to live and this fullfills all the requirements. If Lews Therin doesn't die, then they both have to die.