how did the Aiel get the Avendoraldera sapling?

[Philbert]

I just read this and realized that there is something that I don't understand.

 

How did the Aiel get the sapling from the Chora tree? Avendesora was in Rhuidean, surrounded by the cloud that a man (prospective clan chief) could only enter once, and a woman (prospective Wise One) only twice. Or was the sapling taken before Rhuidean closed up?

[Liam_1993]

when rand goes into the glass place thing, he see's the history of the aiel and shows when they followed the way of the leaf, here we see them  carrying pots with cuttings of the Avendoraldera tree,    they then built rhudien around the tree              either they got a cutting then or when someone goes in the just get it  ???

[Arath Faringal]

I don't think the cloud actually kept people from entering multiple times.  It was simply the fact that mormaly, nobody needed to enter more than the appointed number.  Nothing would prevent a group of Clan Chiefs and Wise Ones going in for a special trip to cut a sapling.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

I don't think the cloud actually kept people from entering multiple times.  It was simply the fact that mormaly, nobody needed to enter more than the appointed number.  Nothing would prevent a group of Clan Chiefs and Wise Ones going in for a special trip to cut a sapling.

 

Yeah, but Aiel tradition stated no male may enter the city more than once and no woman more than twice right?  Their tradtions are pretty strong. 

 

Not sure of the timeline.  My interpretation was that the sapling / cutting (one of the many taken by the Jenn Aiel at the beginning of the War of the Shadow) was granted to the leader / leaders of Cairhien during the construction of Rhuidian.  AFter they finally stopped wandering.  I don't think there was a one power created cloud bank the first time the chiefs were called to enter Rhuidian and go into the Ter'angreal. 

[Ahaz Flagg]

  Think on what the Aiel have that allows them to find a new holding, it is safe to say the dream walkers could have had a person go in to get the sample and come out, without going into the towers.  Also as to the time line, it is my understanding that it took centuries to find the people  who allowed the Aiel water rights.  And, if i remeber, one of Morgases pov mentions that trade as something not that old.  I am thinking not even as old as Artur Hawkwing.

[Arath Faringal]

I believe the Aiel gave Cairhien the sapling around 600 years ago.  So no, not a very old agreement all things considered. 

 

The traditions might be strong, but they also considered themselves to have massive toh.  A 2000 year old debt may have been more than enough motivation for them to make a one time break with tradition and retrieve the sapling.

[Majsju]

Pick a Wise One about to enter for her second time, and tell her to bring a sapling on her way out. Problem solved.

[Luckers]

Indeed. That is how Chora trees are grown after all.

[mb]

Pick a Wise One about to enter for her second time, and tell her to bring a sapling on her way out. Problem solved.

Several problems with that:

-not everyone survives

-even if the person survives, there might be a chance that she may disobey or forget

-not everyone would see the importance of the task (relating more to who would order it than to who they would send)

 

One person's own choice (to pick a sapling) after succeeding the terangreal might be more probable.

Then that person convincing others for there to be a trip to Cairhien with it.

 

[Arath Faringal]

Right.  It's far more likely that a random Wise One in training spontaneously decided to rip a limb off of the Tree of Life, then convinced her colleagues to give it to Cairhien.

 

-Women have a better survival rate than men in the pillars.  Even if she died, the next one could do it.

-To the person going through that ter'angreal, not much time seems to have passed.  Odds are, they'll remember something they were ordered to do, especially something like cutting a sapling from the legendary Tree of Life.

-Wise One's apprentices often do things simply because they were told to, without a need to see the 'importance' of the task. 

[mb]

Right.  It's far more likely that a random Wise One in training spontaneously decided to rip a limb off of the Tree of Life, then convinced her colleagues to give it to Cairhien.

 

-Women have a better survival rate than men in the pillars.  Even if she died, the next one could do it.

-To the person going through that ter'angreal, not much time seems to have passed.  Odds are, they'll remember something they were ordered to do, especially something like cutting a sapling from the legendary Tree of Life.

-Wise One's apprentices often do things simply because they were told to, without a need to see the 'importance' of the task.

The last point I was relating more to the person/people that would order it than to who they would send.  I edited the message.