Meaning of Aes Sedai

[Bushwhacker2k]

Aes Sedai means 'servants of all' right?

 

Does anyone else find this extremely laughable? I think 'those who make all other serve them' is slightly closer.

[Titan Orion]

"Modern" Aes Sedai only vaguely resemble what they were originally from what we hear in thye series, much like the Children of the Light. Corruption is an issue with Aes Sedai these days, although a hell of a lot less than the Children

[Bushwhacker2k]

"Modern" Aes Sedai only vaguely resemble what they were originally from what we hear in thye series, much like the Children of the Light. Corruption is an issue with Aes Sedai these days, although a hell of a lot less than the Children

 

A good point. I don't know much about the original Children or Aes Sedai though.

 

Yeah, it's kind of funny they don't address the evil in those groups as much as evil creatures and "The Dark One." I know they do address it, but so many people in both groups are so wrong as far as good in humanity goes.

[Titan Orion]

Aes Sedai in general annoy me with only a few exceptions. Its been ranted and raved about before though; the Grey Ajah dont do that much negotiating, the Yellow Ajah should have Aes Sedai traveling around Healing those who need it, and so on. The Greens are okay since they do what theyre meant to, same for Blues, and believe it or not same for the Reds-they are there to deal with men who can channel, and we see plenty of that-yet the rest dont do enough for my liking. Why is Verin the only Brown we heard of that seems clever enough to understand the prophecies? Surely the whole Brown Ajah would be reading the prophecies letter by letter and figuring out what needs to be done. What exactly DOES the White Ajah do? Yes, they follow logic, but logic is in the eye of the beholder and following logic can be said about pretty much everything that exists. What are the White Ajahs objectives?

 

I needed to get that off my chest! I feel better now

[anthony draco]

I agree with that. I do hate them sometimes because they're so arrogant and full of themselves. Children of the Light are despicable for that, but Aes Sedai comes second, though by quite a large margin. But at least Aes Sedai, if not most of the Children, deserve individual judgement. Some are actually doing things for good causes. Still, most, if not all, great causes require you to pay.

 

Though I really think Aes Sedai should pay more for those causes themselves, rather than using someone else to pay for it. And be less arrogant about it.

 

They're somewhat needed though. They're the longest living human beings, on the Light side at least, and they preserve many things. Living longer gives you greater overall view of the world too. Like a 3 year-old, and a 60 year-old seeing the world. Without them, the world will have no common goal. And leading, requires some force.

 

Edit: I think White is for detached judgement. When situations are too emotional to judge, but you need to judge anyway, that's when white comes in. Like... when you need to sacrifice a someone to save someone. The only key left is logic.

[fikkie77]

In which case the Whites fail as well: they should be in every major city to lead the judicial courts. They should also be the Aes Sedai advisors you see in Caemlin and Andor.

[fikkie77]

Oh, I like the Aes Sedai organisation. It's the way they act, which does the most harm. They speak a binding oath not to lie, but they bend that rule so much, that everyone know Aes Sedai can't be trusted. I think that the term 'servants of all' has been cynical.

[Titan Orion]

I agree with that. I do hate them sometimes because they're so arrogant and full of themselves. Children of the Light are despicable for that, but Aes Sedai comes second, though by quite a large margin. But at least Aes Sedai, if not most of the Children, deserve individual judgement. Some are actually doing things for good causes. Still, most, if not all, great causes require you to pay

 

Indeed. Verin, Cadsuane and Moiraine between them are enough to redeem Aes Sedai to the "deserve individual judgement" level.

 

I think White is for detached judgement. When situations are too emotional to judge, but you need to judge anyway, that's when white comes in. Like... when you need to sacrifice a someone to save someone. The only key left is logic

 

This is the thing though, logic is in the eye of the beholder, like many things. I just think having a faction dedicated to acting without emotion is a very feeble thing. For one thing, all Aes Sedai are expected to leave their family behind them emotionally, at least to some level, so why create a faction that takes this to another level? And why say whole Ajah is dedicated to following logic? Do the other Ajahs not make decisions they think to be logic? Everything every Aes Sedai does seems logic at the time they are doing it. The White Ajah is crap and shouldnt exist because nobody would notice their absence.

 

I like the Aes Sedai organisation as it makes for good reading, an entity that tries too hard to be perfect and ends up doing itself almost as much harm as good. Im just trying to understand them a bit better. You know, "Lets divide into factions. one can deal with male channelers, one can be the negotiators, one can be dedicated to gathering knowledge, one can be the faction that is ready for war, and... wait for it... the last one can follow logic, seeing as nobody else does, and we want seven stripes on the stole as seven is a luckier number than six"

 

[Shard]

I think the Aes Sedai have just grown stagnant getting stuck in their traditions that stifle them. They lost so much knowledge, they don't go out and hunt down girls who can channel, they do NOTHING about the Taint, they let priceless Ter'Angreal just sit and collect dust, they let other countries (Tear, Ebu Dar, etc) hold valuable *'angreals. It's just ridculous how bad they have let things get.

[anthony draco]

In which case the Whites fail as well: they should be in every major city to lead the judicial courts. They should also be the Aes Sedai advisors you see in Caemlin and Andor.

Well, being good a good king or queen requires someone to be emphatic, not detached, you know. With White attitudes, kings and queens will either become a heartless machine or tyrant. I think Grey is good for this one, especially for small countries that are under constant human military threat. (Annoura is perfect for Mayene.) Or Blue that works for kings and queens with much power and want to do some greater good. Or Green in boarderland countries.

 

Oh, I like the Aes Sedai organisation. It's the way they act, which does the most harm. They speak a binding oath not to lie, but they bend that rule so much, that everyone know Aes Sedai can't be trusted. I think that the term 'servants of all' has been cynical.

That's a bold way of putting it, and a cutting one as well. I agree with that to a lesser extent. Still, I don't think they're that cynical. It happens. Ppl can do harm out of their good intentions. The Three Oaths were not adopted by choice though. They're forced on the Aes Sedai. They needed that to grossly ensure ppl in a ruling class that they will not abuse power or use the rulers (too easily). Ruling class will be smart enough to spot manipulations anyway. It's mentioned somewhere by Sheriam during an Accepted test, I think. Siuan mentioned it to Egwene too that it ensured ppl that Aes Sedai destructive power was not a thing to fear. Circumveting the First Oath is also the only way for them to retain humanity at all.

 

I can also think of another use for White. It's for speaking the truth. Not in the literal sense. I mean as the truth no one wants to hear. Some ppl tend to forget the main goal when they have disputes, arguments or awkward decisions. There are times truth are not welcomed. Only by breaking truth to them in a hard way ppl can sometimes listen. And the truth-speakers tend to get punished besides. Only by remaining detached and having enough power can some truth-speakers remain. (I think this is why a Truthspeaker of the Seanchan aren't allowed to be punished too.) It's true that logic is subjective, but all they need to do is sharing how they reason things out.

[anthony draco]

On a very related note, I despise Alanna. She dared to take... well...someone. And still even dared to say that if what he had besides her was up to her standard, she would passed it over. If I were the man, I would've stilled or killed her if it didn't mean killing myself in the process. I would've killed her anyway.

[Gentled Ben]

The Whites seem to ponder Truth and the nature of reality using logic. They are philosophers and mathematicians. I suppose that during The Breaking, a time when everything had been stood on its head, there were those who sought some kind of deeper meaning in the Pattern and wished to find something that made sense, something in which all other goals and ideals should be grounded, an anchor of some sort. Those women probably would have been the first Whites. They remind me of monks and other aesthetics who withdraw from the world to varying degrees.

[anthony draco]

You seem to have a much easier time saying what I've been trying to say half an hour ago. I felt like I was writing a Wikipedia article. XD

[Perrin 187]

Aes Sedai means 'servants of all' right?

 

Does anyone else find this extremely laughable? I think 'those who make all other serve them' is slightly closer.

In are modern world if I'm not mistaken isn't that what "Samuri" means. I believe Samuri means "Those who serve" close enough, you can see the comparison.

[Gentled Ben]

You seem to have a much easier time saying what I've been trying to say half an hour ago. I felt like I was writing a Wikipedia article. XD

Glad I could help.  :D

[zanotam]

The Whites seem to ponder Truth and the nature of reality using logic. They are philosophers and mathematicians. I suppose that during The Breaking, a time when everything had been stood on its head, there were those who sought some kind of deeper meaning in the Pattern and wished to find something that made sense, something in which all other goals and ideals should be grounded, an anchor of some sort. Those women probably would have been the first Whites. They remind me of monks and other aesthetics who withdraw from the world to varying degrees.

 

The only problem with that is that none of them seem to be doing much pondering of math and science, what with electricity, the steam engine, telescopes, airplanes, etc. all being invented by regular folk and all at once too, and a white/brown alliance would probably be the best at math, science, and philosophy.

[Gentled Ben]

All of the Ajahs fall short of their stated goals; for me, it is part of their charm. They are bunglers, by and large, and arrogant ones at that, but they mean well.  :P

 

EDIT: The Red hasn't done too poorly at their task. The Blues have probably furthered some of their Causes, but whether it did any good is probably debatable.  :D

 

[Gentled Ben]

 

I like the Aes Sedai organisation as it makes for good reading, an entity that tries too hard to be perfect and ends up doing itself almost as much harm as good. Im just trying to understand them a bit better. You know, "Lets divide into factions. one can deal with male channelers, one can be the negotiators, one can be dedicated to gathering knowledge, one can be the faction that is ready for war, and... wait for it... the last one can follow logic, seeing as nobody else does, and we want seven stripes on the stole as seven is a luckier number than six"

 

I suspect it was rather the other way around; that when the Tower was formed, it was the creation of a single institution out of various factions, or groups of channelers who each had a different idea as to how best to use their gift. That the leader of one faction and all of her followers were stilled by the other women (from the BWB), and the way the Tower has quickly fragmented into militant Ajah camps by KoD seem to bear this out. They were foresighted enough to see that if they did not unite and bind themselves with their fool Oaths, then they would behave as the Aes Sedai in Seanchan did (although of course, they would have known nothing of their counterparts across the ocean), but in isolating themselves from the rest of the world in their big ivory *cough* White Tower, they (as has been stated more eloquently on this forum by more  knowledgeable posters than I) became victims of their own propaganda, and therefore, less open to new or different ideas. They are blind now, but the idea of well...basically a sorceresses guild, held a great deal of merit when they first came up with it; it just went south over the course of 3000 years.  :-\

 

I love their little squabbles and intrigues, their lofty goals, their high opinion of themselves, their overall ignorance...they are just so..."close, but no cigar"...in so many ways.  :D

I understand that many people hate them for it, but I love it. I think the Aes Sedai and the Aiel are the most interesting groups of people in the whole story. *shrugs*

[Mr Ares]

What exactly DOES the White Ajah do?

Philosophise. What do you expect philosophers to do?

Yes, they follow logic, but logic is in the eye of the beholder

Can you justify that statement?

and following logic can be said about pretty much everything that exists.

Have you read some of the posts on here?

 

they do NOTHING about the Taint

Wha can they do?

 

Living longer gives you greater overall view of the world too.

I agree. In other words' date=' y'all should be quiet and listen to your elders, y'hear?

It's true that logic is subjective

Can you justify that statement?

[Shard]

they do NOTHING about the Taint

Wha can they do?

 

They could study it for one, I do admit that Cadsuane seems to have done the best with Genteling men and getting them to live longer. The problem is that with the Taint on Saiden, the Aes Sedai have effectivly lost an arm and a leg and after 3,000 years they no longer seem to even CARE.

 

If it was just Tainted Saidin I could live with this but this is just one of among many things the modern Aes Sedai just let fall by the wayside. Reading about the Aes Sedai inventing the Game of Houses makes me wonder how they even got as "united" as they are now.

 

Though I suppose you could lay some blame on Ishameal and the Black Ajah for laying as much discord as possible with the WT and insuring they grew this stagnant.

 

 

[Gentled Ben]

they do NOTHING about the Taint

Wha can they do?

 

They could study it for one, I do admit that Cadsuane seems to have done the best with Genteling men and getting them to live longer. The problem is that with the Taint on Saiden, the Aes Sedai have effectivly lost an arm and a leg and after 3,000 years they no longer seem to even CARE.

 

If it was just Tainted Saidin I could live with this but this is just one of among many things the modern Aes Sedai just let fall by the wayside. Reading about the Aes Sedai inventing the Game of Houses makes me wonder how they even got as "united" as they are now.

 

Though I suppose you could lay some blame on Ishameal and the Black Ajah for laying as much discord as possible with the WT and insuring they grew this stagnant.

 

 

It's hard to study something that you cannot even sense.  :P

 

I imagine that the Grays had a lot to do with holding the White Tower together over the centuries. It seems that they've accomplished little else of lasting significance.  :D

[Shard]

they do NOTHING about the Taint

Wha can they do?

 

They could study it for one, I do admit that Cadsuane seems to have done the best with Genteling men and getting them to live longer. The problem is that with the Taint on Saiden, the Aes Sedai have effectivly lost an arm and a leg and after 3,000 years they no longer seem to even CARE.

 

If it was just Tainted Saidin I could live with this but this is just one of among many things the modern Aes Sedai just let fall by the wayside. Reading about the Aes Sedai inventing the Game of Houses makes me wonder how they even got as "united" as they are now.

 

Though I suppose you could lay some blame on Ishameal and the Black Ajah for laying as much discord as possible with the WT and insuring they grew this stagnant.

 

 

It's hard to study something that you cannot even sense.  :P

 

I imagine that the Grays had a lot to do with holding the White Tower together over the centuries. It seems that they've accomplished little else of lasting significance.  :D

 

Egwene tried it in tSR along with Elyane and they  :o actually LEARNED things! In fact by talking to Rand on how he made a Gateway Egwene figured out how woman are supposed to make theirs. Or at least got confirmation on what her instincts told her to do.

 

The point I'm trying to say is that the Modern Aes Sedai don't care enough to even at least TRY and fail. I mean look at when Nynaeve used ALL five powers to heal and the Yellow Ajah was shocked to the core that she would have the audacity to do that. They then had apihany's on how they could then use Fire and Earth in healing.  ::)

 

I mean really what have they been doing for the past 3,000 years? The Brown's seem to be LOSING knowledge not gaining. The White's do nothing but sit around and bable none sense. The Yellow's are even stingy and stagnant as well if they are so secretive with their Flows. That's another thing that annoy's me in a actual institutional Magic School WHY in the world would there be Secret Flows/Patterns?

 

At least the Blue, Greens and Reds are productive compared to the rest.

[Gentled Ben]

they do NOTHING about the Taint

Wha can they do?

 

They could study it for one, I do admit that Cadsuane seems to have done the best with Genteling men and getting them to live longer. The problem is that with the Taint on Saiden, the Aes Sedai have effectivly lost an arm and a leg and after 3,000 years they no longer seem to even CARE.

 

If it was just Tainted Saidin I could live with this but this is just one of among many things the modern Aes Sedai just let fall by the wayside. Reading about the Aes Sedai inventing the Game of Houses makes me wonder how they even got as "united" as they are now.

 

Though I suppose you could lay some blame on Ishameal and the Black Ajah for laying as much discord as possible with the WT and insuring they grew this stagnant.

 

 

It's hard to study something that you cannot even sense.  :P

 

I imagine that the Grays had a lot to do with holding the White Tower together over the centuries. It seems that they've accomplished little else of lasting significance.  :D

 

Egwene tried it in tSR along with Elyane and they  :o actually LEARNED things!

Yes. They learned that saidin is not like saidar at all, and that they cannot see or touch it.

In fact by talking to Rand on how he made a Gateway Egwene figured out how woman are supposed to make theirs. Or at least got confirmation on what her instincts told her to do.

No, she learned how to kill herself by falling through a hole in the Pattern. Moghedien specifically tells her that that is how men Travel, not women, and then explains how women Travel.

 

The point I'm trying to say is that the Modern Aes Sedai don't care enough to even at least TRY and fail.

At this point, why should they?

I mean look at when Nynaeve used ALL five powers to heal and the Yellow Ajah was shocked to the core that she would have the audacity to do that. They then had apihany's on how they could then use Fire and Earth in healing.  ::)

What group of channelers in the series is currently experimenting with new weaves? Why does this single out the Aes Sedai as a failure? The Wise Ones, the Windfinders, The Kin, the Aes Sedai, the Damane, all of them know the weaves they know, and do not experiment with new ones. Otherwise, they would all be controlling the weather, linking, making sky lights and unraveling their weaves.

 

The Brown's seem to be LOSING knowledge not gaining. The White's do nothing but sit around and bable none sense. The Yellow's are even stingy and stagnant as well if they are so secretive with their Flows.

Yeah, they all fall sort of their goals, however, the Yellows do not keep their Healing secret from the rest of the society; the weave is available for any sister to learn.

That's another thing that annoy's me in a actual institutional Magic School WHY in the world would there be Secret Flows/Patterns?

See my theory in a previous post in this thread about the White Tower being formed out of a variety of initially hostile groups, each with their own agenda.

 

At least the Blue, Greens and Reds are productive compared to the rest.

  The Reds, I will concede. What productivity can you point to from the other two? The Grays formed the compact of the ten nations before the Trolloc wars, and they forged the alliance of nations in the Aiel war. The Yellows must be doing something, as we do not see plagues. Feeble victories are still victories. What has the Blue done besides hamstring the other Ajahs? What has the Green done lately? When you find out, tell the remaining Malkieri all about it.  :P

 

Edited to snip out a snippy comment.

 

[anthony draco]

I agree. In other words, shut up and listen to your elders.

No, it doesn't. Knowing more doesn't guarantee that what they do is always right. Younger doesn't mean they never see somethings others don't either.

 

Can you justify that statement?

Yes, I can.

 

If you think it's true even if it's false, the logic you work from it that involves it will be based on it being true, not what actually true.

 

The First Oath is a good example. 'To speak no word that is not true.' When you speak something that you believe true but is actually false, you can speak it anyway, as you percieve as it true. It's true, to you, and it's worked by your logic. But your logic is not the fact of the world. It's your perception of the world.

 

Edit: 'No, it doesn't mean so.'

[Gentled Ben]

So if you get your sums wrong, does that make arithmetic subjective?