Dragon's Eggs' effectiveness during TG

[Peat]

The only sensible use of things like flash bangs is if it enables a friendly unit to inflict more casualties than both units could together considering the time spent not firing usual ammo. In a battlefield situation, thats pretty rare. They'd be far more likely to be useful in small unit situations although even thats pretty debatable; normal explosive is still pretty loud and dead people fight even worse than blind people. Really, unless you want someone alive, RAW is right; you might as well just kill them first time around.

[Hallow]

Dunno if its been brought up, and I'm suprised if t hasnt been but.. Cuendillar ammo and canons :D No matter what fancy stuff a dreadlord is trying to do with the power it will only make the ammo and canons stronger, ofc they could push the balls away when theyre mid air but seriously, if you keep a steady bombardment with multiple cannons its not really an option, sure you can stop some but for the most part those cannon balls are gonna hit something, seeing as the dreadlords will probably be occupied with the light's side channelers...

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Links please. I can never be sure if you're just BSing here ;)

No worries.

 

The difference between a rifle and a gun:

http://thescitechjournal.blogspot.com/2008/01/difference-between-gun-and-rifle.html

The main difference is that a bullet shot from a rifle travels spinning on its axis as shown in the drawing. As against this a bullet shot from a normal gun does not spin like that.

Essentially, a "rifle"'s barrel has groves carved inside it which spin the bullet as it leaves the barrel. These groves are called "rifling". A barrel that has them is called a "rifled" barrel. Though the distinction is somewhat redundant as all barrels are rifled these days.

 

Gun = Artillery Piece:

Certainly in British military parlance, we talk about "self-propelled guns," "a X centimetre gun", the "guns" on a warship.

 

The thing soldiers carry in their arms is a rifle.

 

And is all seriousness, that's why the Marines were singing that drill song in Full Metal Jacket.

"This is my rifle, this is my gun," etc.

 

It's funny, sure, but like most military things it serves a purpose. In this case, to educate.

 

Large Projectile throwing things = Artillery

Main Entry:

    ar·til·lery

Pronunciation:

    \är-ˈti-lər-ē, -ˈtil-rē\

Function:

    noun

Inflected Form(s):

    plural ar·til·ler·ies

Etymology:

    Middle English artillerie, from Anglo-French, from artiller to equip, arm, alteration of Old French atillier, from Vulgar Latin *apticulare, from Latin aptare to don, prepare, fit — more at adapt

Date:

    15th century

1: weapons (as bows, slings, and catapults) for discharging missiles2 a: large bore crew-served mounted firearms (as guns, howitzers, and rockets) : ordnance b: a branch of an army armed with artillery3: means of impressing, arguing, or persuading

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artillery

 

See point 1.

 

That's actually a little vague. Most people would agree that "artillery" is something large that can throw stuff large distances.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Well ... nothing other than a lack of general lack of experience, women's general weakness in Earth, Mat's lack of connection with the Asha'man, the Asha'man's general lack of training in anything other than blowing something up, and an abundance of other pressing matters for every channeler ...

;)

:P

 

Sure. But then they have no experience at making them by hand/machines either.

 

And who's to say Rand can't lend Mat a few Ashamen?

 

It's a possibility.

 

I mean, essentially, you could create a long barrel-shaped bit of wood and then have the channeler mold the metal around it and then finish it by hand.

 

Just a thought.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

The only sensible use of things like flash bangs is if it enables a friendly unit to inflict more casualties than both units could together considering the time spent not firing usual ammo.

Or, when one needs to enter a room full of opponents. Putting flashbangs into a building and then going through the door is a common tactic in what the British Army refers to as FIBUA (Fighting In Built-Up Areas).

 

Having a flashbang go off next to you is incredibly disorientating and gives attackers the advantage. Using a grenade or satchel charge carries the danger of killing your own people.

 

I can personally attest to how damn loud flashbangs are at close quarters.

 

Additionally, you use them at night and you seriously screw up your opponent's night vision. The attackers just have to close their eyes ... but the defenders obviously don't have the luxury of knowing what's going to happen.

 

Both nightfighting and FIBUA are incredibly common in modern warfare.

[Shard]

Yes but I think RAW is refering to open field battle, the kind that happened in tFoH with the Shadio at Cairhern.

[Majsju]

 

 

Both nightfighting and FIBUA are incredibly common in modern warfare.

 

Indeed. But we are not exactly dealing with modern warfare here ;)

 

The kind of battle where the dragons will come into play will pretty much be 'Here comes the enemy running against us in great numbers. Lets throw everything we have at him before he gets close enough to fight back". And in such scenarios, flash grenades are quite useless.

 

Though, speaking of flasg grenades, seems pretty much what Semi used against Rand ;D

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Indeed. But we are not exactly dealing with modern warfare here ;)

:P

 

I know... but the post I responded to was talking about the general use of flashbangs.

 

p.s. Flashbangs don't exist in Randland, yet we're debating them....  :P

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

It's totally irrelevant.

 

As were all the other posts on flashbangs.

[Mr Ares]

Not to be rude, but have you ever played a strategy game or ever thought about strategy in general? I have, and I can tell you that every second is vital if you're gonna win. Blinding the enemy before you attack can make your odds much higher especially if you're outnumbered ;)

Every second is vital, so you waste vital seconds by blinding people before killing them? Have you ever been a soldier? I have, but I would not do what you suggest. I'd just kill them.

[Builder]

Hah, when was that mate? 30-40 years ago?

[Mr Ares]

Hah, when was that mate? 30-40 years ago?

No, more than 60. Makes no difference. Blinding before killing is ridiculous, just kill them. The situations in which it would be an advantage have already been put forward. They are not relevant. You do not know what you're talking about. Take it from people who have done more than just play some computer games. It makes far more sense to just kill the enemy, most of the time.

[Builder]

Tell that to the soldiers in Afghanistan who are dying every day because some crazed guys play dirty. This isn't your WW2 or something. Wars have gotten really dirty, especially in the Middle East and Vietnam too.

 

It's gotten more dirty because of IED's. The enemies often skip using uniforms and hide among the population.

 

Also the Swedish newest artillery system the ARCHER: http://www.fmv.se/WmTemplates/Page.aspx?id=1373

 

Nowadays it's about striking from the unseen. No longer is it open combat that is prevalent. The US army would rather use cruise missiles and the new ARCHER plus a ballistic missile that is actually an anti-ship missile but still.

 

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=562115

 

The article is in Norwegian, but you can probably find a translator if you're interested in reading it.

 

There is also a semy-automatic sniper rifle now!! Ok, it's FutureWeapons, but still: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhflgNm5ZTU

[Shard]

Gerilla warfare has been around since Colonial times.

[Majsju]

Tell that to the soldiers in Afghanistan who are dying every day because some crazed guys play dirty. This isn't your WW2 or something. Wars have gotten really dirty, especially in the Middle East and Vietnam too.

 

It's gotten more dirty because of IED's. The enemies often skip using uniforms and hide among the population.

 

Also the Swedish newest artillery system the ARCHER: http://www.fmv.se/WmTemplates/Page.aspx?id=1373

 

Nowadays it's about striking from the unseen. No longer is it open combat that is prevalent. The US army would rather use cruise missiles and the new ARCHER plus a ballistic missile that is actually an anti-ship missile but still.

 

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=562115

 

The article is in Norwegian, but you can probably find a translator if you're interested in reading it.

 

There is also a semy-automatic sniper rifle now!! Ok, it's FutureWeapons, but still: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhflgNm5ZTU

 

And what does any of that have to do with the question at hand, namely using flash bangs in open field combat?

[Hallow]

Tell that to the soldiers in Afghanistan who are dying every day because some crazed guys play dirty. This isn't your WW2 or something. Wars have gotten really dirty, especially in the Middle East and Vietnam too.

 

It's gotten more dirty because of IED's. The enemies often skip using uniforms and hide among the population.

 

Also the Swedish newest artillery system the ARCHER: http://www.fmv.se/WmTemplates/Page.aspx?id=1373

 

Nowadays it's about striking from the unseen. No longer is it open combat that is prevalent. The US army would rather use cruise missiles and the new ARCHER plus a ballistic missile that is actually an anti-ship missile but still.

 

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=562115

 

The article is in Norwegian, but you can probably find a translator if you're interested in reading it.

 

There is also a semy-automatic sniper rifle now!! Ok, it's FutureWeapons, but still: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhflgNm5ZTU

 

And what does any of that have to do with the question at hand, namely using flash bangs in open field combat?

 

And more importantly, in WHEEL OF TIME. Seeing as thats what were discussing..

[Peat]

 

Or, when one needs to enter a room full of opponents. Putting flashbangs into a building and then going through the door is a common tactic in what the British Army refers to as FIBUA (Fighting In Built-Up Areas).

 

Having a flashbang go off next to you is incredibly disorientating and gives attackers the advantage. Using a grenade or satchel charge carries the danger of killing your own people.

 

I can personally attest to how damn loud flashbangs are at close quarters.

 

Additionally, you use them at night and you seriously screw up your opponent's night vision. The attackers just have to close their eyes ... but the defenders obviously don't have the luxury of knowing what's going to happen.

 

Both nightfighting and FIBUA are incredibly common in modern warfare.

 

Interesting, when I was taught about FIBUA no one mentioned Flash bangs (that or I wasn't listening at the time); probably because they wouldn't give them to the OTC anyway.

 

I doubt the WoT militaries see much FIBUA but I wouldn't be too surprised if Night Fighting came up a lot in the Final Battle as it suits Trollocs better than men last I looked; the ability to both illuminate the area for your own men and severely disorientate the Trollocs is probably worth more than outright killing some in that scenario.

[Majsju]

 

I doubt the WoT militaries see much FIBUA but I wouldn't be too surprised if Night Fighting came up a lot in the Final Battle as it suits Trollocs better than men last I looked; the ability to both illuminate the area for your own men and severely disorientate the Trollocs is probably worth more than outright killing some in that scenario.

 

Illuminating the area would rather be done by a channeler, who would have the ability to fix a weave in the sky until the fighting is over. If you want to use grenades for that purpose, they need to descend at a relatively slow pace. And of course, it takes a lot more firepower to fire something straight up than it does to fire straight ahead.

[Peat]

 

I doubt the WoT militaries see much FIBUA but I wouldn't be too surprised if Night Fighting came up a lot in the Final Battle as it suits Trollocs better than men last I looked; the ability to both illuminate the area for your own men and severely disorientate the Trollocs is probably worth more than outright killing some in that scenario.

 

Illuminating the area would rather be done by a channeler, who would have the ability to fix a weave in the sky until the fighting is over. If you want to use grenades for that purpose, they need to descend at a relatively slow pace. And of course, it takes a lot more firepower to fire something straight up than it does to fire straight ahead.

 

You're right; ignore the bit about illumination, I said that one without thinking. Probably better done by a weak channeler as you say.

[Majsju]

 

I doubt the WoT militaries see much FIBUA but I wouldn't be too surprised if Night Fighting came up a lot in the Final Battle as it suits Trollocs better than men last I looked; the ability to both illuminate the area for your own men and severely disorientate the Trollocs is probably worth more than outright killing some in that scenario.

 

Illuminating the area would rather be done by a channeler, who would have the ability to fix a weave in the sky until the fighting is over. If you want to use grenades for that purpose, they need to descend at a relatively slow pace. And of course, it takes a lot more firepower to fire something straight up than it does to fire straight ahead.

 

You're right; ignore the bit about illumination, I said that one without thinking. Probably better done by a weak channeler as you say.

 

Why a weak channeler? Better take the strongest one you got, or even go with a circle. You get a much better illumination, and the weave can be tied off so the channeler(s) can get back to work.

[Builder]

LALALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU GUYS LALALALALALALA!!!!

[Peat]

This isn't my day for thinking hard is it?  :D

 

My thinking was that you don't want to waste a strong channeller doing it; as you mention though, they can just tie it up and return to the battle.

 

This said - how difficult would it be for a Dreadlord to undo that weave (I guess I should know but don't), and how much strength in the power does it take to accomplish this anyway?

 

Also, if you are capable of assembling a large circle together before the battle, the question returns to why waste time with making light when they could be killing Trollocs? You'd need a lot of archers to make that worthwhile... well, archers and dragons.

[Majsju]

Well, a Dreadlord would not have the advantage the trolloc has with seeing better than humans in the dark, so it might just be in their best interest to leave the light on.

 

And I do not see why it would be wasting time to make sure you get proper light. It would not take that long, and once you have light, all your troops are a lot more efficient. You would save time by taking a few moments to get this done.

[Shard]

LALALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU GUYS LALALALALALALA!!!!

 

And you want us to take you seriously like that?

[Builder]

I'M GONNA CONTINUE SAYING LALALALALA AND HOPE THAT SHARD GOES AWAY!!!

 

I'm messing around with you.