Tar Valon, Seanchan and Truce related Questions

[MikeRiley]

They wouldn't be "cast out and scorned", they would be "kept in and executed." I thought about that too but it doesn't really fit.

 

On page one of the thread people were discussing how the Seanchan might attack. I don't know how long it would take them to fly across Randland to the White Tower but I'm sure they would keep to the standard procedure of night raids and nobody would see them the whole way.

 

I really don't get why everybody hates Elaida. She's elitist, but so are all but maybe 2-3 Aes Sedai. Egwene herself has some of the same flaws Elaida has. You have to remember Elaida was being blackmailed by the Black Ajah and most of what she did was not her choice. She had the White Tower rules mindset that most Aes Sedai have and so naturally believed Rand should be brought in. She did not order Rand tortured daily, that was Galina - a Black sister. She did order his kidnapping, though. She also sent some sisters to deal with the Black Tower. Enough to "crush" it with her bad intelligence. She is not fit to be Amyrlin but she is not hateful either. Once she got free of Alviarin she even started trying to fix all the problems that were caused. You can understand the why of everything she does and the only one I think she was completely wrong with was the building of her palace, given her point of view and what's going on. She really thought she was doing the right thing for the world.

 

I think Egwene will see this and if not pardon her, keep her from being stilled/cast out from the White Tower. She is always talking about how the Tower needs to be whole with every Aes Sedai.

[rhadamanthus]

I really don't get why everybody hates Elaida. She really thought she was doing the right thing for the world.

 

The difference is that her ignorance is self-imposed and self-serving.

 

Egwene acts irrationally, but she adapts to new events quite well.  Elaida ignores or outright denies them.

 

Egwene does drive me nuts with her "Aes Sedai need to save the world" hypocrisy, but that's certainly not localized only to her.  It's an arrogance all AS are indoctrinated with, as eloquently stated by ol' Luckers.

[Luckers]

That doesn't exactly show any proof, though. You are still just assuming that the "Crystal Throne" line in Seanchan's version of Prophecy is false, and the "bind the nine moons" line in Randland prophecy is true. If a line could have been changed in one, its just as easy that it could be changed in the other.

 

No, im not assunming that, i left it out because i would have assumed you would have read Maj's post wherein he points out that Luthair supposedly brought pure prophecies from the Westlands, which replaced the corrupted ones already in Seanchan, yet that the ones in the Westlands were corrupted in the same way--specifically neither contained that the Dragon would kneel to the Crystal Throne.

 

Seanchan history contains that the prophecies were changed to fit Luthairs, Westland has no such change. The wide distribution of the prophecies precludes such a thing occuring without knowledge--ergo it is Luthairs--the one with the kneeling to the Crystal Throne--that is fake.

 

I really don't get why everybody hates Elaida.

 

Elaida's problem is that she is self-serving. She is so convinced that she is right that she not only cannot acknowledge alternative perspectives, she cannot even tolerate to hear them--and worse, she cannot even understand that others might even have them.

 

Thats the worst sort of foolishness. Other Aes Sedai are fools--a whole bundle of them, in fact--Egwene too has her foolish moments--yet that foolishness is tempered by rationalism and intelligence. For instance when Egwene considers that Rand might be right about needing the Asha'men for Tarmon Gai'don--she doesn't change her position of the Aes Sedai needing to protect the world from them by a hair, yet she can concieve his reasons.

 

Elaida lacks that. Utterly. In a normal person it would make her a wanker. In a leader it makes her dangerous. And we've seen the effect of that--even seeing what Alviarin did, even being conciously aware of the fractures between the Ajah, she continues to goad at them because she simply cannot percieve an alternative. She is Amyrlin, and in her mind that means she should command, and they should follow, no matter that she has done damage, and is aware of that, and aware that others think that--even then she doesn't hesitate.

 

There is no Black and White in her view. There is only Elaida-colour.

 

ol' Luckers.

 

Oi! I'm only 21! Who you calling old? Lol.

[rhadamanthus]

Oi! I'm only 21! Who you calling old? Lol.

 

Ye gods.  Now I feel old.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I know how you feel, rhadamanthus ... the little guy was four when I started reading these books ... -shudder-

[Luckers]

In my defence, nothing good happened in the eighties.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Wait ... -doing the math- ... weren't you born in the eighties?

 

:-\

[Muad Cheade]

First off, I don't think the Seanchan are in a weak position. As Galgan says, while the army that is surrounded in Arad Doman is outnumbered, they have damane with them which should offset Ituralde's numerical superiority. Plus, many of his troops will be less experienced. At best, it will be a bloody stalemate unless the Aiel Rand sent under Rhuarc interfere and that is unlikely as Rand wants peace.

 

This article is pretty accurate and it puts the Seanchan military strength at 600,000 (http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=107). Don't forget the large army at the Molvaine Gap that Mat was trying to avoid and also the large one at the Illian border. They also have various small armies (10,000-15,000) hunting Dragonsworn and Shaido. They are far from in a weak position.

 

The "prophecy" that the Dragon Reborn is distorted. I can't remember where, but I once read that Ishmael changed the prophecy from its original to its present from. It makes sense especially since Ishmael did this when he convinced Artur Hawkwing to send Luthair across the Aryth Ocean.

 

When the remnant "cast out and scorned" I think it simply means those that are working against the unification of the Tower will be banished. I think this includes people on both sides of the fence like Elaida and Lelaine (possibly Romanda too).

 

It's pretty much universally believed that the Seanchan will attack the White Tower. I think it's through the use of raken like it's been previously stated. I think Rand will have a truce with Tuon yet the attack will already be underway. The Aes Sedai will unite, fight off the Seanchan (Don't want to go into details like what happens to Elaida or the actual battle etc). When the dust clears, Tuon and Rand (Maybe also Mat) head to the White Tower. Egwene (the Amyrlin) learns of the truce and freaks out. That would be the prophecy about the dragon Reborn knowing "the Amyrlin's anger. If you notice, ever since she was made damane, Egwene always acts fearfully or irrationally on the subject on the Seanchan. I think somehow they forge out a truce between the Aes Sedai and Seanchan with the Seanchan giving up all the Aes Sedai they have as damane (Tuon wouldn't be willing to release all the damane. Mat would be revealed as Tuon's husband so that could have a helpful effect on the Seanchan-Aes Sedai discussions and Mat could also regain the Horn of Valere.

 

This is all speculation but I think that would be interesting, but it's always good to be surprised.

[Eleint]

First off, I don't think the Seanchan are in a weak position. As Galgan says, while the army that is surrounded in Arad Doman is outnumbered, they have damane with them which should offset Ituralde's numerical superiority. Plus, many of his troops will be less experienced. At best, it will be a bloody stalemate unless the Aiel Rand sent under Rhuarc interfere and that is unlikely as Rand wants peace.

 

Wasn't Ituralde leading them towards a stedding?  I recall hints of that.  If so, the damane aren't going to do a thing.

 

As for skill, certainly.  But if Ituralde's as good as they say he is, he'll probably have his troops in such a position that they'll have it a lot easier.  Kind of like Mat.