Moiraine's Teacher??

[Indiangangster]

Something been bugging me in EotW the first couple of books. Moiraine seems to be more advanced than regular Aes Sedia. And i mean way MORE advanced, even if she has more poteintal and hence learns weaves faster. I mean, she has done things that i still haven't seen Aes Sedia even dream of.

For example:

 

-she creates a huge, and i mean huge, fog in EotW (chapter 12) that no normal Aes Sedia could do, especially since they are been know to suck with weather.

-She weaves an invisibility weave. Ok, we see this before but only after one of the forsaken teaches rand. And then after Moghedien teaches the girls. So who taught Moraine?

-Balefire, duh.

-Supresses the taint of the dagger within Mat. I doubt most Aes Sedia know how to do this.

-The enchanted coins she gives to the boys. Although Elyane later knows how to do this, im guessing she got the weave of Moghedien. I am pretty sure that other Aes Sedia do not know this weave or they would use to find Rand whenever they want. (it shouldn' be to difficult to enchant one of his items). And it would be a lot easier than bonding too......

-Using objects that are not Terr'angeal to boost certain weaves. I know she learned about the blue stone as a accepted, but i doubt she was a using a staff to amplify her fire weaves as an accepted.

- and a lot more other stuff

 

I find it highly unlikely that she managed to figure all of these weaves by herself, especially since only the forsaken orginally knew these weaves. So could it be possible that Moraine had a teacher, besides the ones in the white tower? We know that most of the complicated weaves that Cadasine knows comes from her teacher(a wilder she met after she became an Aes Sedia). This doesn't seem too unreasonable.

 

what do guys think?

 

 

[Roxinos]

-she creates a huge, and i mean huge, fog in EotW (chapter 12) that no normal Aes Sedia could do, especially since they are been know to suck with weather.

 

What evidence do you have to say that no normal Aes Sedai could do it? When you have a huge body of water like the Tarendrelle to work with, making fog from it is easy.

 

-She weaves an invisibility weave. Ok, we see this before but only after one of the forsaken teaches rand. And then after another forsaken teaches the girls. So who taught her?

 

Chances are, she learned it on her own. And why not? Nynaeve learned Healing on her own. Elayne learned how to make ter'angreal on her own. Liandrin learned her form of Compulsion on her own and Verin did as well. Why is it unbelievable that Moiraine could have learned a form of Invisibility on her own?

 

-Balefire, duh.

 

Yep, she pieced that together on her own through writings on the topic.

 

-Supresses the taint of the dagger within Mat.

 

Basic Healing. Verin does the same thing while Moiraine is doing her shtick in The Great Hunt and Mat is with her.

 

-The enchanted coins she gives to the boys. Although Elyane later knows how to do this, im guessing she got the weave of the forsaken.

 

You're guessing. Why couldn't Elayne and Moiraine have learned it on their own?

 

I am pretty sure that other Aes Sedia do not know this weave or they would use to find Rand whenever they want. (it shouldn' be to difficult to enchant one of his items).

 

And what Aes Sedai gets close enough to Rand to weave the tracer on one of his items? And what Aes Sedai gets close enough to Rand and is allowed to channel near him? And what makes you think Rand wouldn't be able to detect such a weave?

 

-Using objects that are not Terr'angeal to boost certain weaves. I know she learned about the blue stone as a accepted, but i doubt she was a using a staff to amplify her fire weaves as an accepted.

 

Ya, that's a simple concentration trick. It has nothing to do with the item itself. And many Aes Sedai use a similar concentration trick focused on an item. Most women who learn to channel outside of the Tower learn some sort of concentration trick.

 

I find it highly unlikely that she managed to figure all of these weaves by herself, especially since only the forsaken orginally knew these weaves.

 

What weaves are those? Balefire is the only one I can say you might have a point. But Rand figured that out on his own as well.

 

Why do you think that channelers are so ineffective without the Forsaken?

[Hydroc Claw]

For the fog, she says that there are not ten women in the tower that could do that, implying that there ARE women in the tower who can do it.

 

On the Invisibility, yeah, but that's really just a variation of the illusion weave rather than an entirely seperate weave, right?

 

Balefire, good for her.

 

The dagger, stated perfectly already.

 

The tracer on the coins is basic. By all accounts that seems to be something all Aes Sedai would be able to do.

 

-Using objects that are not Terr'angeal to boost certain weaves. I know she learned about the blue stone as a accepted, but i doubt she was a using a staff to amplify her fire weaves as an accepted.

 

No, just no. She specifically states that the objects have no affect at all on the weave. If anything, they're a hindrance, since they require her to have the object if she learns the weave with the object being a part of it. She says clearly that the objects have no affect other than to aid concentration, which doesn't actually make the weave stronger. Also, she figured out the trick using the stone as a focus while she was still in the Sun Palace. Again, the stone doesn't make the weave more powerful.

[Kaznen]

There are also ajah weaves that each ajah has and doesn't teach to students just new sister's in their ajahs.  They go on about that in NS and I think the invisiblity weave and coin trick weave are only "known"  ;) ;) to the blue ajah.

 

The coin trick would be useful to the blue's becuase they may need to keep track of their "assets" but can't use the warder's weave to do so.

 

There are also weaves sisters figure out on their own and don't teach others.  They all keep secrets, look at Caudsuane(?).

 

And as for the fog, she was one of the top 10 strongest channlers and had an agreal to boot.  And weather is a talent like healing, some are better at it then others, remember Verin's rainstorm and how the AS party in tGH wove the winds to speed them on there way.

 

AS might not be as good as SF windfinders but they never needed to weave the winds enough to power massive frigates so they never thought to learn how.

 

It's really a matter of current AS looking at the OP as a skill other then a science, like the AoL AS did.

[Roxinos]

There are also ajah weaves that each ajah has and doesn't teach to students just new sister's in their ajahs.  They go on about that in NS and I think the invisiblity weave and coin trick weave are only "known"  Wink Wink to the blue ajah.

 

Actually, the Finder weave is not special to the Blue Ajah. After all, Elayne knows it. She figured it out on her own. It is, however, very similar to the weave for Bonding. So long as you know how to Bond, you know the Finder weave.

[Kaznen]

hence the "known" ;) ;).

 

Some of the ajah weaves that the ajahs guard as close secrets are known to other ajahs and even individual AS.

[Roxinos]

Then that makes no sense. Because it's not even "special" to the Blue Ajah but others know about it. It's just plainly not one of the special Blue Ajah-only weaves.

[Casco]

-she creates a huge, and i mean huge, fog in EotW" Well, in the later books Moiraine says that she allways suspected all the windfinders from the sea people using the power. Maby she have seen some weaves one of them have made when she traveled to find Rand?

 

Nynaeve did learn Balefire by her own to. Not only Moiraine and Rand. After Nynaeve did cast it Elaine asked "What was that?" Nynaeve answered " I dont know, Balefire?" or something like that.

"She weaves an invisibility weave." When did she do that? I dont remember. Was in the first or later books?

 

 

[Mr Ares]

-The enchanted coins she gives to the boys. I am pretty sure that other Aes Sedia do not know this weave or they would use to find Rand whenever they want.

Provided they could put the finder on him, and keep it on him. After all, what happened to the one Moiraine gave him? He gave it away. So what will they put it on? It would need to be something metal that he always has on him. A limited choice. His sword perhaps, not much else.

[MikeRiley]

 

"She weaves an invisibility weave." When did she do that? I dont remember. Was in the first or later books?

 

 

 

On the hill overlooking the 7 towers of Malkier, Moiraine puts up a ward and Rand walks through it and is suddenly scared to find himself alone on an empty hill.

 

Also, wasn't it stated somewhere in one of the early books that an Aes Sedai forms a sort of attachment to people she's healed? So she can recognize who is coming without turning her back. I've always assumed a finder was just a bit more intricate but something they all would have learned, knowing the effect was possible.

[Roxinos]

Also, wasn't it stated somewhere in one of the early books that an Aes Sedai forms a sort of attachment to people she's healed? So she can recognize who is coming without turning her back. I've always assumed a finder was just a bit more intricate but something they all would have learned, knowing the effect was possible.

 

As I said, the Finder weave is a relative of the Bonding weave. They are both very similar, except one works on items without a soul, and one works on items with a soul.

[Kaznen]

Then that makes no sense. Because it's not even "special" to the Blue Ajah but others know about it. It's just plainly not one of the special Blue Ajah-only weaves.

 

It's not like a blue would go around the tower saying, "hey sisters of other ajahs, check out this weave but you can't use it because you are not blue, ha ha!"

 

They use there their special ajah weaves when sisters from other ajahs are not around. So all seven ajahs could have the invisble weave as a special ajah weave but because they don't talk about ajah only weaves with other ajahs no one would know they can all do that weave.

 

By now I'd think any one isn't shocked about how AS and even AM keep secrets from even their sisters and brothers for no better reason then keeping secrets.

[Roxinos]

It's not like a blue would go around the tower saying, "hey sisters of other ajahs, check out this weave but you can't use it because you are not blue, ha ha!"

 

They use there their special ajah weaves when sisters from other ajahs are not around. So all seven ajahs could have the invisble weave as a special ajah weave but because they don't talk about ajah only weaves with other ajahs no one would know they can all do that weave.

 

That's just the silliest idea ever. But I could totally imagine it happening. *laughs*

 

 

[Kaznen]

So many problems woulndn't have even happened if the AS kept a more open dialouge between each other.

 

And as for the AM, why, by the light most holy, didn't they shout in the streets of every city and town in Randland, even TV, that Saidin was clean, why didn't rand use one of those new fancy printing presses to send a letter to every AS, Accepted, and novice telling them there was no taint?

 

But when Narshima brought Rnad's proposal to the SAS hall and one of them mentioned the taint he said off hand that it was clean, and the way he said it he might as well have muttered "idiot" to the AS under his breath.  But at the end of WH he was in tears of joy that the Saidin was cleansed.

[CUBAREY]

But when Narshima brought Rnad's proposal to the SAS hall and one of them mentioned the taint he said off hand that it was clean, and the way he said it he might as well have muttered "idiot" to the AS under his breath.

 

Well, since he was basicly calling them idiots outloud his "muttering" idiots would have been redundentg.

 

 

, why didn't rand use one of those new fancy printing presses to send a letter to every AS, Accepted, and novice telling them there was no taint?

 

I kinda thoght that was one of the purposes why he sent Nerishima to the rebels. That he did not bother with Elaida's bunch might be evident considereing how they treated him and the view he believes the Red's have of male channelers in general.

[Kaznen]

And that sitting was sealed to the hall.  So what is the likelyhood that the sitters will be broadcasting the taint free news?  Given Romanda views about equallity it isn't likely.

 

But if every channeler in the WT recieved word that the taint is gone then the sitters, ajah heads, and/or Amirilyns couldn't keep it hushed up.  And if AS without much politcal power know about it ideas will rise bringing a possibilty of equallity and merging of the two orders and maybe even a dialouge etween ajahs in the tower and a speedy resolution between the TAS and SAS.

 

Likewise, if only the tower people know they can keep it from the rest of the world, not like they haven't done something like that before, so if the AM started proclaiming it in the streets then the ley would start thinking and merchants and peddlers would have spread the news like wildfire.  And if there is a possibility of the AS and AM working together in a stronger alliance then the shadow would start getting nervous because one advantage they had was playing one side against the other.

 

And I'm not even going to go into Taim and Elayne.

 

By keeping this to themsleves Rand and the AM are letting the AS have power over them.  Remember Merise didn't confirm or denie Narshima'a proclomation until she was directly asked, so even the AS with Rand don't want the news getting out.

[CUBAREY]

And that sitting was sealed to the hall.  So what is the likelyhood that the sitters will be broadcasting the taint free news?  Given Romanda views about equallity it isn't likely.

 

It might be sealed to the Hall but about fifty sisters will bond Ashaman and will quicly learn that Saiden has been cleansed. Thus, there is very little likelihood that Romanda or the entire Hall can keep the fact of the cleansing secrect even if they wanted to. Moreover, as Romanda believes that the bonding will make the Ashaman subservient to their bond holders (which is not exactly true, given the differening relationships among Aides Sadie and bonded Ashaman) thus why should she want to hide the fact that saiden has been cleansed especially since she and the hall will have to "sell" the need to bond Ashaman to other sisters.

[Kaznen]

They were willing to bond AM despite the taint, they were that scared of teh "Forsaken super weapon."  They were willing to accept Narshima's offer before that taint was brought up, the two who did bring up the taint were the ones who fought this at every turn.

 

So now they need to find AS "suitable" to banding AM.  Because the AS can't keep anything simple each sister to band a AM will be hand selected by the hall.  And told to keep quiet about the taint, they've done stuff like this before, and told not to let their new "warder" go shooting his mouth off.

 

I think the AS are in for a surprise when they start to order AM about but the AS don't know it yet.

[Orange Fescue]

 

 

I think the AS are in for a surprise when they start to order AM about but the AS don't know it yet.

 

I can hardly wait to read about the looks on their faces. It's like the schadenfreude version of waiting for Christmas.  ;D

[MikeRiley]

Don't the Aes Sedai already boss their Asha'man warders around? In Knife of Dreams one even took the warder's dragon pin away from him.

[Kaznen]

I don't think Damer Flinn got his pins taken because the AS he is bonded to had to much respect for him as a channeler.  And I don't think Belidin(?) would have taken Sandmer's pins because she sworn to Rand she would take an Asha'man as her warder and she doesn't have much more experence in the OP as her warder, and he is probally still stronger.

 

But Merise took Jahar Narshima's Dragon pin as a way of having him only take what SHE gives him.  But she was telling Cadsaune that it was a real trial, especially when he keeps getting stronger and stronger in the OP, making him do what she wants him to do.  He is a sparker and is stronger then her in the OP, and Romanda thought she was doing a shody job handeling her warders by how NArshima kept denieing her.

[42Bonzo88]

    Back to where Moirainne is getting all of this stuff. In the Great Hunt she "escapes" going back to the White Tower and the next we here of her she's visiting Vandene and Adeleas who are in retirement. She is studying in the library. Next we see her at the end of Book II with Rand. The Dragon Reborn starts with Perrin and Moiraine's group trailing Rand and Moiraine says to Perrin that she's 'much more dangerous than she was before'. I think that's where she learned the Balefire weave.

 

    We have also heard of Brown sisters going through books in old libraries and finding things that have been forgotten. Moiraine to me, is someone who will get any and all the information she can to acheive her goals.

[Mr Ares]

And as for the AM, why, by the light most holy, didn't they shout in the streets of every city and town in Randland, even TV, that Saidin was clean, why didn't rand use one of those new fancy printing presses to send a letter to every AS, Accepted, and novice telling them there was no taint?

Lack of postal service, male channelers wandering around TV might find themselves getting Gentled, would anyone believe them if they did say it, they are getting ready to fight a war, do they have the resources to spare for a PR campaign?

[Kaznen]

Some people would believe it, but most importantly people would be talking about it.  Word would spread and some would start chaling it up to the Dragon Reborn doing his miricles.

 

And Rand could get people inside the tower if he wanted to.  I'm surprise he hasn't already put AM spies in the AS camps already.

[Charlz Fel]

How could you possibly learn how to do a weave by reading about it in a book?  At best, you could get enough hints to do some experimentation, and experimenting with balefire would be exceedingly dangerous.  [i suppose it is possible--Liandrin's Black sisters experimented with the balefire rod, nearly killing themselves--but it still seems improbable.]

 

Another question: At Vandene and Adeleas' house, Moiraine thinks she has found an answer to a question that she had not thought to ask.  I've reviewed the passage, and I cannot figure this out--either the question, or the answer.  Does anyone know?