The Dark One

[Mashiara]

Is the Dark One a thread in the Pattern or is he outside of the influence of the Pattern? Because I asked a question of what would happen if Rand balefired the Dark One with the Choedan Kal and they told me that the amount of balefire required to destroy the Dark One would destroy the world. Balefire burns a thread in the Pattern. If the Dark One is not a thread in the Pattern, then how could he be destroyed by it? Please help me, I'm confused... :oops:

[Trib4l]

I believe that RJ has stated that both the DO and the Creator exist outside of the Pattern, therefor neither have a thread to 'burn'.

[NorrinRadd]

Yes, The DO is outside of The Pattern & Balefire in any amount affecting the Pattern wouldn't affect Him in the Least.

[Kepen heal]

Hold on hold everything,

in one of the books i disticntly remember them saying that they had found the DOs prison in the patter, then bored a hole through it to release him from where the creator had locked him up.

 

So saying he is in the pattern, but dont know if that is where he was resealed when the 100 companions locked him, so maybe hes somwhere else????

[NorrinRadd]

They found the area where the Pattern was Thinnest,and where the DO was most able to come close to Touching Reality.

[Luckers]

The Dark One is outside the pattern, but that is not to say that balefire does not effect him. We have seen that A) the influences of balefire are beyond his control to stop or manipulate. and B) been told that if the pattern were destabalized enough it could weave the Dark One into the pattern of an age. Whilst that was refering to ta'veren, balefire also destabalizes the weaving of the pattern.

 

But thats not an answer to your question. The reason people gave you the answer that balefire in that amount would destroy the pattern is because A) RJ said that once, and B)The amount of balefire might remove the dark one to back before the Age of Legends, removing the influence he's had on all events since. The paradox, and the wheel trying to cope with that would tear it apart.

 

But you raise an interesting point. Balefire burns threads out of the pattern and the Dark One isn't a thread. That would imply to me that balefire as a direct weapon against the Dark One himself (not including secondary effects like the ones mentioned in paragraph one) would not work. But then, since RJ has implied that it would work, i think we have to simply shrug and say, yup, sure, why not.

[RAND AL THOR]

It is pretty strange that the DO 'exists outside the pattern.' I find it hard to imagine that. He talks english and has emotions (ie. ambition to conquer the world) - how is it that he doesn;t have a thread in the pattern? very difficult to picture.

 

While he is beyond and average human, his supernatural abilities are limited- or he wouldn't be in the prison now, would he? I think every being that thinks and acts ought to have a thread, especially since that being would affect the pattern in some way or another merely by existing- and the DO has certainly influenced the Pattern a great deal.

[bRANDan]

A loose analogy:

Pattern=Aquarium

DO=Me

Creator=My friend

 

The aquarium contains all life besides those 2 outside of the aquarium. Me and my friend influence events that are inside the aquarium, I try to get the animals inside to kill and eat each other while my friend tries to get them to live together peacefully. We're both outside the aquarium, but if either of us tried to get into the aquarium completely we'd break it, but it is possible for us to reach inside with a hand, or foot if I'm feeling crazy, and affect things inside the aquarium.

[metria31183]

A loose analogy:

Pattern=Aquarium

DO=Me

Creator=My friend

 

The aquarium contains all life besides those 2 outside of the aquarium. Me and my friend influence events that are inside the aquarium, I try to get the animals inside to kill and eat each other while my friend tries to get them to live together peacefully. We're both outside the aquarium, but if either of us tried to get into the aquarium completely we'd break it, but it is possible for us to reach inside with a hand, or foot if I'm feeling crazy, and affect things inside the aquarium.

 

What a really good analogy.

[Asmo]

It's not like your example suggests.

 

If the Dark One could reach the real world with a hand, then any amount of Balefire would be enough to destroy him, since even touching someone with a finger-thin beam of Balefire is enough to evaporate him completely. Probably a strong enough amount of Balefire can burn down the entire Pattern and reach outside of it to hit the Lord of the Dark. But then the Pattern would be destroyed, fulfilling the statement. Or, it could bore a hole through the Pattern and reach the Dark One. Which sounds pretty weird, but it could be. Either way, the amount would be monstrous in either case.

[bRANDan]

If the Dark One could reach the real world with a hand, then any amount of Balefire would be enough to destroy him, since even touching someone with a finger-thin beam of Balefire is enough to evaporate him completely

 

Ah, but therein lies the problem. The DO is not 'someone' in the pattern. The balefire would have no thread to burn and therefore would react with him quite differently than it would with you and I, plus I think it would be very hard for one to 'evaporate him completely' seeing as how He is incorporeal. RJ has stated that Balefire could destroy the DO but the amount it would take to do so would destroy the Pattern also.