Ajah Choosing Tendencies

[Shard]

I would think the Red's new purpose would be balance between male and female channelers.  They have spend so much time seeking to protect the world from men going insane from the taint, it's only natural that their new mission would be something springing from that. 

 

I agree with this and in fact think that the Asha'men should adopt Ajahs like that of the Tower. Balance and order.

[Mr Ares]

Never figured how the quote function works

At the top of each post is a thing saying quote. You can add further quotes by clicking the thing saying insert quote, to be found at the top of posts when you're replying. Just above the emoticons are rows of things one of which will add quotes, or you could just type in [*quote] to start quote and [*/quote] to end it (remove the asterisks).

[Luckers]

But with blues u have: Moiraine/Suian/Leanne/Anaiya/Sheriam/Faolain/and the blue wanna be amyrlin all sitting fairly high

Green you have Cadsuane, Myrelle, Elayne, Egwene had she been raised that i can think of off the top of my head.

 

Anaiya and Sheriam are both strong, its true, but there are counter-parts amongst the other Ajahs. Based on Siuan's comment we know all the advisors to Egwene were quite strong (with the exception of Beonin who wasn't present, though why Elaida would send a weak sister of little standing to influence policy....

 

Leane, Anaiya, Sheriam, Myrelle--none of these stand at the top of the hierarchy. They are strong, yes, but they are not the top, and there are sisters in the other Ajahs the equal them. As for Faolain--we have no statements about her strength.

 

Of those states at the top--Moiraine level strength and above--five Ajahs are represented in the last twenty years--go twenty years beyond that and I've no doubt all seven would be present.

 

I can't think of a white ever having been quoted as "strong", only Alviarin being strong enough to weave a gateway.

 

Aside from Meilyn who has been unequalled by any Aes Sedai other than Cadsuane and the Wonder Girls in hundreds of years, we have your assumption--You grant Anaiya, Leane and Sheriam high status, why not Alviarin? All those women are strong enough to create gateways and we have no comments about the sizes of their gateways respective to each other--so by what basis do you claim those four exceed Alviarin--or for that matter exceed any number of named sisters, much less the hundreds that havn't been named.

 

By what chart are you establishing your 'strong' sisters.

[Nightstrike]

Leane, Anaiya, Sheriam, Myrelle--none of these stand at the top of the hierarchy. They are strong, yes, but they are not the top, and there are sisters in the other Ajahs the equal them. As for Faolain--we have no statements about her strength.

Where do you place the bottom limit for "top of the hierarchy"? Egwene level? Cadsuane level? Surely not below Moiraine level, or?

 

 

 

Aside from Meilyn who has been unequalled by any Aes Sedai other than Cadsuane and the Wonder Girls in hundreds of years, we have your assumption--You grant Anaiya, Leane and Sheriam high status, why not Alviarin? All those women are strong enough to create gateways and we have no comments about the sizes of their gateways respective to each other--so by what basis do you claim those four exceed Alviarin--or for that matter exceed any number of named sisters, much less the hundreds that havn't been named.

Those Blue all have high status. That's beyond any reasonable doubt. Alviarin is also quite strong (even though she most likely is somewhat weaker than them), since Mesaana deemed her just strong enough to make a functional Gateway. Most Sister can't do that, which means Alviarin is quite strong. Mesaana could have played Alviarin's strength down, since she is of Forsaken strength herself. Alviarin could be of the mentioned Blue ones' strengths. That still makes the mentioned Blues very strong, compared to the average of Aes Sedai.

 

 

[Gentled Ben]

Mesaana said to her, "You have some strength, Child. Not much, but enough." Then she taught her to Travel. She did not say that Alviarin could just barely create a functional gateway.

[lordofsoup]

I'm not sayingn there aren't exceptions...Nyneave is the perfect example of one.

 

But looking at women talked about:

 

Romanda&Nyneave = Yellow (only stong ones i can think of

Verin = Brown (is she that strong? above average certainly but she's not show to command others that much.)

 

 

But with blues u have: Moiraine/Suian/Leanne/Anaiya/Sheriam/Faolain/and the blue wanna be amyrlin all sitting fairly high

Green you have Cadsuane, Myrelle, Elayne, Egwene had she been raised that i can think of off the top of my head.

 

I can't think of a white ever having been quoted as "strong", only Alviarin being strong enough to weave a gateway.

Luckers mentioned one very strong White (Meilyn). The Whites are the smallest Ajah. They shouldn't have a lot of strong ones, because there aren't that many Whites to select from in the first place.

 

You said that there are exceptions... I think the Blue Ajah might be something of an exception to the rule that "Strength doesn't matter". A lot of Blue Sisters have their own personal cause that they work for. That might often be lonely tasks for them, I think. Moiraine, for instance. She's probably been traveling alone (like in NS). Strength might be an advantage for those lonely ones. They might not always have one Lan at their side. So, maybe the Blue Ajah is the place for the strong and lonely ambitous Sisters.

dident she do that, because she did not want to be put on the throne of Cairhein?

correct me if wrong

[Nightstrike]

About average Aes Sedai and their Gateways:..."Egwene’s rediscovery of Travelling caused a lot of Aes Sedai to smile, though only a handful were strong enough to make a gateway larger than they could put an arm through and most not even that." (LoC, Possibilities).

 

 

 

Anaiya and Sheriam are both strong, its true, but there are counter-parts amongst the other Ajahs. Based on Siuan's comment we know all the advisors to Egwene were quite strong (with the exception of Beonin who wasn't present, though why Elaida would send a weak sister of little standing to influence policy....

Agreed, there are counter-part from other Ajahs at roughly the same strengths. After Meilyn died, there might not be that many Whites, but there aren’t that many Whites to choose from in the first place. Beonin can make useful Gateways, so she must be quite a bit stronger than average – see my quote above.

 

Leane, Anaiya, Sheriam, Myrelle--none of these stand at the top of the hierarchy. They are strong, yes, but they are not the top, and there are sisters in the other Ajahs the equal them. As for Faolain--we have no statements about her strength.

First of all, Faolain is said to be above average at one time. Another time, Amys and Melaine were said to be “no stronger than Theodrin and Faolain”. Amys and Melaine are the strength of very strong Aes Sedai. Leane is only a step down from Moiraine level, according to RJ himself (and I think it is mentioned in the books also). Sheriam is stronger in the One Power than Myrelle who, in turn, is stronger than Anayia, Beonin, Carlinya and Morvrin (LoC, 34). Sheriam was the early leader of the Salidar camp, and she’s got a history as both Mistress of Novices and Keeper of the Chronicles. That spells top of hierarchy loud and clear.

 

 

Mesaana said to her, "You have some strength, Child. Not much, but enough." Then she taught her to Travel. She did not say that Alviarin could just barely create a functional gateway.

I took it to mean that Mesaana was judging her strength relative to Gateways, and not relative to Mesaana herself. But, as I said in my earlier post, Alviarin could well be as strong as Sheriam or some other of the Blues that was mentioned. Either way, she’s very strong, compared to the average.

 

 

 

dident she do that, because she did not want to be put on the throne of Cairhein?

correct me if wrong

Might have influenced the timing. But Siuan and Moiraine said that they couldn’t imagine belonging anywhere else than the “Seekers for a Cause” (in NS). After Gitara died, I think their Cause was chosen for them (intervention by the Wheel?).

 

 

 

 

[Luckers]

Quote from: Luckers on March 04, 2009, 05:01:57 AM

Leane, Anaiya, Sheriam, Myrelle--none of these stand at the top of the hierarchy. They are strong, yes, but they are not the top, and there are sisters in the other Ajahs the equal them. As for Faolain--we have no statements about her strength.

 

Where do you place the bottom limit for "top of the hierarchy"? Egwene level? Cadsuane level? Surely not below Moiraine level, or?

 

Actually yes, Moiraine level. Cadsuane is believed dead, the Wonder Girls are not reguarded as actual Aes Sedai--Moiraine, Romanda, Lelaine, Elaida and Old Siuane are the top of the hierarchy.

 

More to the point though, none of those sisters stand in that catagory. We know they are relatively strong... but thats all, and that means nothing.

 

Those Blue all have high status. That's beyond any reasonable doubt. Alviarin is also quite strong (even though she most likely is somewhat weaker than them), since Mesaana deemed her just strong enough to make a functional Gateway. Most Sister can't do that, which means Alviarin is quite strong. Mesaana could have played Alviarin's strength down, since she is of Forsaken strength herself. Alviarin could be of the mentioned Blue ones' strengths. That still makes the mentioned Blues very strong, compared to the average of Aes Sedai.

 

Many Aes Sedai have high status. Their strict hierarchy ensures that. Yes, those three blues do, but so do yellows, whites, reds, greys, browns and greens. Those who are strong have high status.

 

By what basis do you state that Alviarin is weaker than they? Mesaana never said she had just enough strength to create a gateway. And we have no knowledge of their respective gateway sizes. And you are correct--she could be of the Blues strengths, or stronger. There could be many of that strength. Though many Aes Sedai arn't strong enough to travel, many are--Egwene speaks of the rebels--less than a third of the sisters.

 

First of all, Faolain is said to be above average at one time. Another time, Amys and Melaine were said to be “no stronger than Theodrin and Faolain”. Amys and Melaine are the strength of very strong Aes Sedai. Leane is only a step down from Moiraine level, according to RJ himself (and I think it is mentioned in the books also). Sheriam is stronger in the One Power than Myrelle who, in turn, is stronger than Anayia, Beonin, Carlinya and Morvrin (LoC, 34). Sheriam was the early leader of the Salidar camp, and she’s got a history as both Mistress of Novices and Keeper of the Chronicles. That spells top of hierarchy loud and clear.

 

It spells that they are strong. Where does Pevara sit in this? Seaine? Random unnamed Aes Sedai? They are strong but they are not the only strong Aes Sedai. Not the top of the hierarchy--that is very clearly stated.

 

 

[Nightstrike]

Actually yes, Moiraine level. Cadsuane is believed dead, the Wonder Girls are not reguarded as actual Aes Sedai--Moiraine, Romanda, Lelaine, Elaida and Old Siuane are the top of the hierarchy.

 

More to the point though, none of those sisters stand in that catagory. We know they are relatively strong... but thats all, and that means nothing.

Yeah, if anything below Moiraine level is below "top of hierarchy, then I agree with you. Most Aes Sedai wouldn't see it that way, and it's their view that counts. We have information on their strengths, as I've already explained. That means quite a lot.

 

 

 

Many Aes Sedai have high status. Their strict hierarchy ensures that. Yes, those three blues do, but so do yellows, whites, reds, greys, browns and greens. Those who are strong have high status.

 

By what basis do you state that Alviarin is weaker than they? Mesaana never said she had just enough strength to create a gateway. And we have no knowledge of their respective gateway sizes. And you are correct--she could be of the Blues strengths, or stronger. There could be many of that strength. Though many Aes Sedai arn't strong enough to travel, many are--Egwene speaks of the rebels--less than a third of the sisters.

No, there aren't many Aes Sedai that are strong enough to Travel. And there are even fewer with the strengths of Sheriam or Leane. And I agree with your conclusion (as I've mentioned in earlier posts) that there are other Ajahs represented at roughly Sheriam's, Anayia's or Faolain's strengths. I didn't say that Alviarin could be stronger than the mentioned Blues. Sheriam and Leane are just below Moiraine level. Alviarin can't be of Moiraine's strength, so you're mistaken. Mesaana implied that she had just enough strength for the Gateway, but we don't know by what margin Mesaana would call it "Not much, but enough.". Therefore I say that Alviarin is strong enough to make a useful Gateway, but she's unlikely to be of Leane's strength. She could be, but I find it very unlikely. Either way, Alviarin is quite a lot stronger than the average of all Sisters.

From the FAQ at wotmania:

“You have little strength child. Not much, but enough.” A weave appeared seemingly from nowhere. “this,” Mesaana chimed, “is called a gateway.”

 

-A Crown of Swords, Lightnings

 

 

 

It spells that they are strong.

Must I dig out the exact quote... OK, then.

From the FAQ at wotmania:

In the One Power, Amys and Melaine were no stronger than Theodrin and Faolain – far from weak. Indeed stronger than most Aes Sedai. But far from a Forsaken’s strength.

 

-A Crown of Swords, Unseen Eyes

 

Theodrin was clearly the stronger of the two (Theodrin and Faolain) in the One Power

 

-A Crown of Swords, An Oath

 

Reanne was not as strong as Elayne, or even Nicola - burn that wretched girl! - but she easily equalled Sheriam, say, or Kwamesa or Kiruna. Not many women possessed so much strength…

 

-A Crown of Swords, Next Door to a Weaver

 

 

 

Where does Pevara sit in this? Seaine? Random unnamed Aes Sedai? They are strong but they are not the only strong Aes Sedai. Not the top of the hierarchy--that is very clearly stated

It is very clearly stated that Leane and Sheriam are considered top of hierarchy by the Aes Sedai themselves. RJ mentioned Leane being just a level below Moiraine and Sheriam has a brilliant career behind her. Even though she's recently been doing a bad job as Keeper. She's had 3 absolute top level assignments.

 

Again, I quote the FAQ from wotmania (which I think is very well thought out and written):

Sheriam was clearly the strongest in the room aside from Egwene herself, and Myrelle next, though it was hard to be certain; the rest (Anaiya, Carlinya, Morvrin and Beonin) all seemed close..

 

-Lord of Chaos, Journey To Salidar

 

Anaiya is nearly as strong as Cetalia.

 

-New Spring, Entering Home

 

We know where Sheriam is, and that ‘powerful’ people should really be limited to levels eleven to thirteen. Additionally, Carlinya is quite young as far as Aes Sedai go, and Myrelle even younger, so both must be fairly high up with regards to strength to be able to throw their own weight and play their part in holding the rebels together. Since Egwene was uncertain if Myrelle was stronger than Anaiya, Beonin, Carlinya and Morvrin, there is not enough difference between them to warrant them being on different levels. If Anaiya is almost as strong as Cetalia, then she should be a level below and Myrelle, Beonin, Carlinya and Morvrin with her.

 

 

 

[Nightstrike]

And from the FAQ about Sheriam's strength:

As for Sheriam’s level, first we have three sisters from New Spring:

 

 

Larelle and Merean were both stronger in the Power than she [Moiraine], unfortunately, though she would stand above them eventually, but the gap was only wide enough that she had to defer not obey...

 

-Legends, New Spring; New Spring, An Arrival

 

Cetalia’s ability was nearly as great as Moiraine’s and Siuan’s would be eventually.

 

-Legends, New Spring; New Spring, Entering Home

 

Cetalia equalled Merean in the Power, and it would be another three or four years before Siuan gained enough strength to tell Cetalia she was leaving the job.

 

-Legends, New Spring; New Spring, A Narrow Passage

 

 

This indicates that Siuan is very close to Cetalia’s strength, and since Moiraine is Siuan’s strength and Cetalia is Merean’s strength, all three can be placed just below the future Amyrlin. Some others at this level include Theodrin, Reanne and Kirstian.

 

From the "Comprehensive One Power Strength list":

ACoS (Like lightning and Rain) - … was as strong as any Aes Sedai she had yet met.

 

Moiraine is the strongest Aes Sedai (besides Cadsuane), and Egwene has obviously encountered her. Amys should therefore share Moiraine’s strength of 25. Egwene, however speaks of Amys again in the seventh book …

 

ACoS (Unseen Eyes) - In the One Power, she and Melaine were no stronger than Theodrin and Faolain, far from weak, indeed stronger than most Aes Sedai, but far from a Forsaken’s strength too.

Those two statements are contradicting each other - but probably not by much. It's clear that Theodrin and Faolain are the same strengths as Amys and Melaine. And it's very likely that Theodrin/Amys are close to Moiraine level.