Steddings and dark channelers

[mb]

Maybe the Creator created them so that Ogier could have a place to live.

Seems rather backwards to me. "I've created these things, but they don't work properly...Of course! I'll create an environment specially suited to their needs!"

 

By "them" I meant steddings, not the ter'angreal; I edited the post.

 

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Not that big an if.

Maybe, maybe not.

 

There are empty steddings which still produce the same effect. That means that Ogier aren't required for the effect to work. It isn't too much of a stretch to think that they might continue to exist, across the world, sans Ogier.

 

So, even if the Ogier leave, steddings might well continue to exist.

Before the Breaking, could an Ogier survive outside of a stedding?

I'm not 100% sure, but isn't there a passage in which an Ogier talks about being able to move around without fear of the Longing? I'm certain the implication was that there was no fear of leaving a stedding. If there's no fear, then we can surmize that the Ogier could survive outside one; else the line would be "There wasn't such a thing as the Longing, but we still died for reason A."

Were steddings necessary to the Ogier for survival or were they just considered home to them?   

I'm leaning toward "home" rather than "survival" here.

[Mr Ares]

Before the Breaking, could an Ogier survive outside of a stedding?

Yes.

 

Maybe the Creator created them so that Ogier could have a place to live.

Seems rather backwards to me. "I've created these things, but they don't work properly...Of course! I'll create an environment specially suited to their needs!"

By "them" I meant steddings, not the ter'angreal; I edited the post.

I know what you meant, and your edit changes nothing. It seems rather backwards to create a creature and then develop an environment for it, as opposed to developing a creature to fit a particular environment.

 

Not that big an if.

Maybe, maybe not.

 

There are empty steddings which still produce the same effect. That means that Ogier aren't required for the effect to work. It isn't too much of a stretch to think that they might continue to exist, across the world, sans Ogier.

 

So, even if the Ogier leave, steddings might well continue to exist.

Either the stedding were always here, or they came at some point, which would necessitate them going away again at some point. And there is a slight difference between how the Ogier left the stedding during the Breaking and how they plan to leave the world in the future.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Either the stedding were always here, or they came at some point, which would necessitate them going away again at some point. And there is a slight difference between how the Ogier left the stedding during the Breaking and how they plan to leave the world in the future.

Why would they have to go away if they've always been here?

 

You hear about places of extreme calm in the world. Top of mountains, deep in forests, in wilderness areas.

 

Why can't those be steddings?

[FallingBullets]

I wonder if there are any steading under water

[signdragon]

I wonder if there are any steading under water

Mer-Ogier?

[FallingBullets]

no, just steadings...  maybe they do "move about", maybe some of them were buried under ground or underwater after the breaking, and then as time advances they start appearing around and about

[Mr Ares]

I wonder if there are any steading under water

Mer-Ogier?

Just holding their breath for a really long time.

 

Either the stedding were always here, or they came at some point, which would necessitate them going away again at some point. And there is a slight difference between how the Ogier left the stedding during the Breaking and how they plan to leave the world in the future.

Why would they have to go away if they've always been here?

They wouldn't. If they have always been here, then they wouldn't leave. If they were not always here, if they came here at some point, they would have to leave so they could come back again. It is not that big an if because, given the evidence we have, it is just as likely that they came, and so will go, as they were always here. But I have a preference for a theory which also explains other aspects of stedding - the lack of the Power, and that, like the Blight (which is not truly a part of this world), they cannot be entered from T'a'r.

[Thor]

Perhaps when the book of translation is used, the whole world becomes a stedding?

[MikeRiley]

The steddings don't actually move about. They were relocated during the breaking of the world when the land was torn apart. There were ruins that Rand noticed on his march out of the Aiel Waste that had docks on it - up on a mountain, far from the ocean. Continents would have shifted, land you crossed over one day was changed the next. While Rand was in Rhuidean it made pretty clear that everybody was wandering and everything was in a constant state of change. It would stand to reason that there would be stedding in the ocean. I wonder if it could be felt on the surface of the water or if there's a height limit to the effects?

 

There isn't much to back this up but I always figured the longing came about at first as a sort of home sickness. They missed their groves so much that at first they lost the will power to continue. It could have evolved from that. I also figured they stuck to the stedding to have their own bit of land to cultivate free of the One Power, because what's the point of growing something when the power can make it perfect anyway? It'd be a waste of time to do it any other way. In their stedding it'd have been special.

[ROB_88]

but if the steddings were home, than why didn't they stay there in the first place?

there must have been some that were in the steddings before the Breaking started, right?

they wouldn't need to run around since they would be safe from the Power, and therefore they wouldn't develop the Longing, but yet they did get the Longing anyway

[signdragon]

i was reading a theory on wotmania about steddings and ogeir and the book of translation.  During this a couple of thought came to me.

1.  If the Ogier leave will the steddings retain the properties of cutting off the source?

2.  If they do retain those properties, wouldnt that make perfect jails for the dark channelers?

Just a random musing, flame away.

so in response to #1 we dont have enough information

and #2  kill or gentle / sever them

[Mr Ares]

but if the steddings were home, than why didn't they stay there in the first place?

Have you ever left your home, or wanted to do so?

there must have been some that were in the steddings before the Breaking started, right?

Yes, probably most of them.

they wouldn't need to run around since they would be safe from the Power, and therefore they wouldn't develop the Longing, but yet they did get the Longing anyway

They developed the Longing because they lost the stedding and couldn't find them. The Seachan Ogier had more stedding, and never completely lost them, so they never developed the Longing.

 

There isn't much to back this up but I always figured the longing came about at first as a sort of home sickness.

Sort of. Only fatal and hereditable.

I also figured they stuck to the stedding to have their own bit of land to cultivate free of the One Power, because what's the point of growing something when the power can make it perfect anyway? It'd be a waste of time to do it any other way. In their stedding it'd have been special.

But they helped outside the stedding as well. The seed singing used the Aiel and the Ogier, with their songs woven together by Nym. Who says the Power can grow things perfectly? we have no reason to believe that, and we know of a non-OP related way of doing things that was used at the time.

[signdragon]

So, ares, you say that most of the Ogier were in the steddings before the Breaking, and they developed the Longing because they lost the stedding.  Obviously something is missing in the sequence, please elaborate.

[Mr Ares]

So, Mr Ares, Light of My Existence, you say that most of the Ogier were in the steddings before the Breaking, and they developed the Longing because they lost the stedding.  Obviously something is missing in the sequence, please elaborate.

What is missing? They are in the stedding. The Breaking starts, constinents move, oceans become deserts and vice versa, and so on and so forth. The Ogier, like everyone else, have to move around in order to survive. They have to leave the stedding, they don't find them for many years, during which period they develop a longing for the stedding, which is passed down to future generations even after the stedding are found. Which part needs clarification?

[signdragon]

What is missing? They are in the stedding. The Breaking starts, constinents move, oceans become deserts and vice versa, and so on and so forth. The Ogier, like everyone else, have to move around in order to survive. They have to leave the stedding, they don't find them for many years, during which period they develop a longing for the stedding, which is passed down to future generations even after the stedding are found. Which part needs clarification?

thank you for elaborating, not clarification

[Telzen]

If men were nearby destroying stuff with the power, you would surely leave the area. Or they could have been out of the stedding anyway because of the war, a lot of the stedding might have been in shadow controlled areas.

 

I'm also of the mind that whatever makes a stedding a stedding (is that the correct way to put it?) instead of just normal land, will also leave when the Ogier. Like stedding are pockets of space from their original world.

[MikeRiley]

What if the steddings are in fixed locations on the world and the land itself shifted? So the ogier are all fine and safe, then the land itself is moved by a mad channeler and suddenly they're out of the stedding and by the time the land stops shifting they have no idea which way to go to get back to it. We know the land shifted this way because of the ruined city Rand sees on a mountain with a dock while walking through a pass leaving the Waste.

[Luckers]

Like a giant slippery-slide? It's possible, but i think it's more likely that they were simple forced to move on due to the chaos--Aes Sedai may not be able to affect the stedding directly, but you crack a tectonic plate near one and its gonna cause some serious problems.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

If they do retain those properties, wouldnt that make perfect jails for the dark channelers?

 

Is it safe to assume that since the OP can't be used within a stedding, then it must hold that the TP can't be used either?

 

 

[Mr Ares]

If they do retain those properties, wouldnt that make perfect jails for the dark channelers?

Is it safe to assume that since the OP can't be used within a stedding, then it must hold that the TP can't be used either?

Yes.

[Luckers]

Indeed, RJ stated that. Which you could have said Ares.

[Thor]

the only possible explanation is that just before the breaking started, all the ogier were out of their stedding fighting for the light (presumably they haven't fought for the shadow).

 

this is the only explanation that they get lost from the steddings.  since steddings themselves shouldn't be movable even if their surroundings are being turned upside down.

 

btw, is the stedding bound to the land it is on, or is it bound to the co-ordinate location?

[MikeRiley]

I would say co-ordinate, which would mean if they were in their stedding and the land shifted they would find themselves outside it without ever moving themselves. That's the sort of thing that would get half of them killed though.. but then, they probably did lose a good many of their numbers. After the earth stops shaking and changing they could find themselves in an entirely new area with no idea which way to walk to get back to their stedding. They might split up in the hopes of finding it sooner or they might have wandered about finding safety first. In one of the POVs Rand has in Rhuidean he comes across Ogier who say the land keeps changing from day to day, right?

[Mr Ares]

the only possible explanation is that just before the breaking started, all the ogier were out of their stedding fighting for the light (presumably they haven't fought for the shadow).

No. That is not the only possible explanation. For one thing, what of any Ogier too young/old/injured/etc. to fight? Wouldn't they stay in the stedding? Also, they could have left the stedding because they were unliveable. Due to the Breaking (remember that?). Forced to leave due to earthquake/flood/other natural disaster caused by insane men, having to keep moving to stay alive, ot finding them because of the ground moving around. Yours is in no way the only explanation.