Gandalf vs. Sauron

[goldeneys]

ummm, I don't understand something, I've heard a few ppl say on these boards that Gandalf is more powerful than Sauron. But, what I don't understand is that if Gandalf can't defeat the Witchking how could he hope to defeat Sauron?

[JaemDovara]

both, essentially are Maiar, demi-gods basically, and but Sauron may be more powerful. Gandalf is extremely powerful in his own right, but without help, could not defeat Sauron alone. That is Gandalf's strenght though. He has, as the white wizard, the command of all the wizards, as well as men and elves. and he's just awesome. :)

[Asgard Thorin]

Goldeneys, Gandalf was the wisest of the Maiar. He could have matched Sauron power for power if the Valar, the Archangels-demigods of Middle-earth had not forbidden him and the other wizards from matching Sauron power for power. I think Gandalf could have withstood the Witchking-remember, in the books, Gandalf stood fast against him and kept him from entering Minas Tirith, and the only reason Gandalf didn't go Ringwraith hunting was that he had to save Faramir-but he could not go head-to-head with Sauron himself because it was forbidden.

His orders did not cover the Balrog, however, particularly after he broke his staff when he broke the bridge. The staff's breaking happened in the book, for anyone who just saw the movie. The Valar forbade the Istari, the wizards, from matching Sauron because they did not want any further damage to Middle-earth. When the Valar at last recaptured Melkor Morgoth Bauglir, the Great Dark Lord, an entire continent was destroyed, Beleriand. When Sauron tricked the Numenoreans, Numenor was destroyed. The Valar also fought Melkor for ages before the elves awoke, causing much damage. They limited the wizards to minimize the destruction.

[Jade]

Weren't there only something like 5 Istari though? Gandalf and Sauroman came to the continent while the other three stayed on the mainland to help out there. When Sauroman went to Sauron's Side, Gandalf was given the Power's of the White Wizard to counter, and Sauroman eventually was destroyed... Thats what my buddy Danny tiold me, and you wont find a bigger LOTR fanatic within a few thousand miles. :)

[Guest Winespring Brother]

There were five Istari, and we saw Radaghast the Brown in the Hobbit. The other two though were never mentioned, and although its suspected they went East, no one really knows.

[Asgard Thorin]

Yes Jade the Five Istari came from the Undying Lands to the mainland of Middle-earth. The two Blue wiards passed into the east. Saruman went into the east but returned. Gandalf never went east, and it doesn't say much about Radaghast. Saruman came back. Gandalf mainly dealt with the elves, the men of Gondor, and Aragorn's people, the Rangers of Arnor. Then he discovered the hobbits....

[goldeneys]

ok, I did read the books, at least twice, but I didn't read much of the Silmarillion.

[Asgard Thorin]

Yeah, it's easy to forget, for me, that other people haven't read what I have read. As for stating about reading the book, I learned the hard way that most or a large part of the people who talk about the books have only read the movie, pardon the pun. I've seen so many people refering to Arwen or "the time of the orc". Not that Arwen wasn't important, she was Aragorn's motivation after all.

[vikingdriver]

There is a huge difference between being strong and being wise. They don't always go hand in hand. Gandalf is the wisest of his order and now the strongest since he became gandalf the White but he is not necessarily stronger in power than Sauron. but then again Sauron is not as wise as Gandalf is. Their two separate but equally powerful attributes makes them as equals. I never heard that Gandalf was of the Maiar, but I do know that Sauron was and that initself is as close to being Godlike as one can get.

[JaemDovara]

all the wizards are Maiar, vik.

[Asgard Thorin]

Yes, all the Istari are wizards. Gandalf is even mentioned by name in the Silmarillion, his real name not what he was called by men (wand elf) or by the elves (grey wanderer). His true name was Olorin. He mentioned this when he spoke of his names and his travels and said "To the East I go not," or something like that. The Unfinished Tales has a scene where the Valar are debating whom to send. Also the Appendices after the Return of the King