Best fighter in WoT without OP

[bad company]

So any serious points, apart from the mighty bela point.

 

I still bring up Tuon, she handled Mat fairly well

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

I still bring up Tuon, she handled Mat fairly well

To me, Tuon vs. Lan only ends one way. Lan wins.

That question assumes it is possible to remove luck from the equation and see who is better.

Which, and I know you're not necessarily behind the idea of Mat being the best, brings us down to this:

 

Mat is the best fighter in WoT because, a., he's very good with a sword staff, and b., his luck will enable him to win when his skill isn't enough.

 

Which, I for one, think is a bit of a sad statement and, therefore, do not agree with. After all, luck is merely one factor, which is, in my opinion, over ridden by skill 9/10 times.

 

At the end of the day, I'm still convinced it's Lan. Could Mat beat him? Sure. Could Mat beat him 100% of the time, not in my opinion.

 

After Lan, it's a toss up between a few people.

 

Just my opinion.

[bad company]

I think we are all agreed that Lan is the best, unless Ryne was alive still ;D

[Mr Ares]

Guys guys guys. Obviously the best fighter is Bela. I mean honestly, she killed Asmodean, one of the feared FORSAKEN!, in less than a second, with no weapon that we know of. if bela can kill a extremely tough channeler, than im sure she can decimate any non-op fighter even easier

*Kneecaps Padraic_Seebrr* Jokes about that horse are boring rather than funny. Continuing to repeat them results in punishment.

 

I think we are all agreed that Lan is the best, unless Ryne was alive still ;D

Or a zombie. "Surrender when you're dead? Nah, surrender when your undead corpse is hacked to bits."

 

That question assumes it is possible to remove luck from the equation and see who is better.

Which, and I know you're not necessarily behind the idea of Mat being the best, brings us down to this:

 

Mat is the best fighter in WoT because, a., he's very good with a sword staff, and b., his luck will enable him to win when his skill isn't enough.

 

Which, I for one, think is a bit of a sad statement and, therefore, do not agree with. After all, luck is merely one factor, which is, in my opinion, over ridden by skill 9/10 times.

 

At the end of the day, I'm still convinced it's Lan. Could Mat beat him? Sure. Could Mat beat him 100% of the time, not in my opinion.

 

After Lan, it's a toss up between a few people.

 

Just my opinion.

Well, I'm not behind the idea of a "best" anyway. Plus there is the question of how to define best (if we go with still alive=better, then it is not a question of skill). If we are decide based on skill, Valda was better than Galad and Ryne was better than Lan - both of them were able to carve a few holes into their opponents, and only lost due to overconfidence, bad luck, and the other guy getting in a killing blow. Had it been something other than a fight to the death, then the result could have been different. Another example would be when Rand sparred with Toram Riatin in ACoS. Rand was wearing gloves, something said to hamper his ability, yet held his own. However, he lost in the end due to getting distracted. So, who was better? Riatin won. Rand was distracted, but Riatin kept his eye on the ball - better focus. Rand was handicapped slightly. Now, as to whether or not Mat could beat Lan 100% of the time, that is an interesting question. If it was possible to endlessly refight the same battles, what would be the result? How many times out of a hundred would Valda beat Galad? Galad only needed to win it once. If it came to Mat v Lan, who would win? It would be a close fight, it could go either way. If it was fought 100 times, how many would Lan go over and how many would he do the job?

[mb]

Guys guys guys. Obviously the best fighter is Bela. I mean honestly, she killed Asmodean, one of the feared FORSAKEN!, in less than a second, with no weapon that we know of. if bela can kill a extremely tough channeler, than im sure she can decimate any non-op fighter even easier

 

Bela killing Asmodean is absurd.

Asmodean's killer was someone he knew, we do not know if the two of them met.  Asmodean's killer was most likely a channeler, Bela cannot channel.  Asmodean's killer was most likely another Forsaken, Bela was/is none of them.

Bela being a fighter at all, that seems illogical at this point.  We have not seen Bela fight anyone/anything.

 

[DaTaimsta]

Guys guys guys. Obviously the best fighter is Bela. I mean honestly, she killed Asmodean, one of the feared FORSAKEN!, in less than a second, with no weapon that we know of. if bela can kill a extremely tough channeler, than im sure she can decimate any non-op fighter even easier

 

Bela killing Asmodean is absurd.

Asmodean's killer was someone he knew, we do not know if the two of them met.  Asmodean's killer was most likely a channeler, Bela cannot channel.  Asmodean's killer was most likely another Forsaken, Bela was/is none of them.

Bela being a fighter at all, that seems illogical at this point.  We have not seen Bela fight anyone/anything.

 

 

Pick up a dictionary. Look up the word "sarcasm."

[mb]

Guys guys guys. Obviously the best fighter is Bela. I mean honestly, she killed Asmodean, one of the feared FORSAKEN!, in less than a second, with no weapon that we know of. if bela can kill a extremely tough channeler, than im sure she can decimate any non-op fighter even easier

 

Bela killing Asmodean is absurd.

Asmodean's killer was someone he knew, we do not know if the two of them met.  Asmodean's killer was most likely a channeler, Bela cannot channel.  Asmodean's killer was most likely another Forsaken, Bela was/is none of them.

Bela being a fighter at all, that seems illogical at this point.  We have not seen Bela fight anyone/anything.

 

Pick up a dictionary. Look up the word "sarcasm."

 

The context does not tell if the poster was being sarcastic or not.

 

[bad company]

Generally when bela is invoked it has sarcasm involved

[Charlz Fel]

Another example would be when Rand sparred with Toram Riatin in ACoS. Rand was wearing gloves, something said to hamper his ability, yet held his own. However, he lost in the end due to getting distracted. So, who was better? Riatin won. Rand was distracted, but Riatin kept his eye on the ball - better focus. Rand was handicapped slightly.

A couple of points on this.  First, toward the end of the fight, Toram had Rand on the defensive, suggesting Toram may have been slightly more skilled--or, possibly, more motivated.  Second, the level of focus displayed by Toram would be useful in a real fight to the death.  Here, Toram failed to notice a life-threatening intrusion because he was so intent on winning a practice duel.

[bad company]

So focus is also needed

[purplemonster]

i hate to say it but (not really), best fighter (imo) is mat (yes massive mat fan too)... but countless memories of battles and fights plus his own skill and luck added, he beat galad and gawyn (granted neither was as good as they are now) with out taking a single hit... but its tru rand and everyone are excellent fighters but a point that i literally thought of how many times have we heard of rhuarc fighting he's gotta be pretty freakin tuff

[Thor]

gawyn cannot be considered anywhere near the best.  He was fighting some unnamed guy and only won by luck (his opponent stumbled on a corpse or something).

[bad company]

So galad over gawyn any day

[Mr Ares]

Generally when bela is invoked it has sarcasm involved

As is a lack of imagination. Sense of humour is usually absent.

 

Another example would be when Rand sparred with Toram Riatin in ACoS. Rand was wearing gloves, something said to hamper his ability, yet held his own. However, he lost in the end due to getting distracted. So, who was better? Riatin won. Rand was distracted, but Riatin kept his eye on the ball - better focus. Rand was handicapped slightly.

A couple of points on this. First, toward the end of the fight, Toram had Rand on the defensive, suggesting Toram may have been slightly more skilled--or, possibly, more motivated. Second, the level of focus displayed by Toram would be useful in a real fight to the death. Here, Toram failed to notice a life-threatening intrusion because he was so intent on winning a practice duel.

But Rand's gloves were, IIRC, said to be something that would impact his ability. So how much would Rand's performance have improved had he not been wearing gloves? Furthermore, he wore the gloves so that his identity wouldn't be revealed (they concealed the ends of his dragons), so we must also question how knowledge of who his opponent really was would affect Riatin's performance? As for focus, both too much (blotting out things in the background that might be useful to know) or too little (not paying enough attention to what your opponent is doing) can be bad.

[mb]

Generally when bela is invoked it has sarcasm involved

 

That might not always be so; there may be a chance that the posters really believe what they are saying.

 

[Dmitri]

Generally when bela is invoked it has sarcasm involved

 

That might not always be so; there may be a chance that the posters really believe what they are saying.

 

 

No comments...  :-\

 

[purplemonster]

... gawyn can totally be up there he has gotten so much better since his fight with mat and i dont even remember the other fight

[bad company]

I don't remember much fights with gawyn in them to be honest

[purplemonster]

excatly, so we dont wuite kmnow much about his skill other than that he leads the younglings and was close behind galad during the training at tv

[TaiShar Panthera]

1. Lan: he's a Warder, a Blademaster, we've seen him kill dozens if not hundreds of foes (Aiel, Trollocs, Fades, Humans, etc.) Although we haven't really seen him command a large army, he knew a lot about Aiel battle tactics. He also grew up learning from the best of the Malkieri veterans, so overall, I think it's fair to say he's the best in the WoT with a sword (early in the series one of the Aes Sedai says "he's the best of the Warders), as a general, he's at least on the level of Davram Bashere if not higher, and he probably has the best emotion/self-control of anyone in the WoT (outside of OP wielders)

 

2. Mat: he's my fav character, but I usually think of him as more of a gambler and a joker. Still, he's probably the best general in the WoT thanks to his memories, he's incredible with a quarterstaff/Asharandei (killed a Fade with it), he's an excellent shot with a bow, and he's gotten himself out of several tight spots by throwing the dozen or so knives he keeps on his person

 

3. Rhuarc: (this is arguable) All of the Aiel are formidable with both their spears and their bows, and they all have excellent self control. I'm just picking Rhuarc because, as a clan chief, he should be a better fighter, better general, and be more experienced than most of the Aiel. Compared to 'wetlanders' I think he'd steamroll Perrin, be a fair match for Mat in a duel, but would lose to Lan (and possibly Galad and a few others). As a general, I'd put him on the same level as Davram Bashere and Lan.

 

***Just before he lost his hand, I think Rand could have beaten any sword-wielding opponent except for Lan (that still leaves Mat and the best of the Aiel), he was an excellent archer, slightly better than Mat, and he was pretty good without weapons, as well. Without his hand, however, he can't really use a sword or bow - that right there takes him out of the competition, he's still not as good a general as Mat, Lan, or the clan chiefs.

[bad company]

I think that list would be fairly accurate, to a point. AS others would possibly choose differently but I don't feel that this list is too bad at all

[Mr Ares]

as a general, he's at least on the level of Davram Bashere if not higher

What? Are you reading a different series to me? In the one I am reading, five people in the Westlands are regarded as Great Captains. Gareth Bryne. Agelmar Jagad. Pedron Niall. Rodel Ituralde. Davram Bashere. Mat Cauthon can be added to that list. You seriously think Lan Mandragoran is on the level of one of the Great captains, if not better? We have absolutely nothing to back that up.

 

3. Rhuarc: I'm just picking Rhuarc because, as a clan chief, he should be a better fighter.

Why? Because he is in charge of a lot of people, that automatically means he is more badass than any of them? It's a ridiculous assertion, and not one with any basis in the books. But even though he's good, there's no way he could be a match for precious Lan. Lan is the besteset ever. Bull. Lan is a man, same as any other, and he'll die the same as any other. Put him against Rhuarc, I see no reason why the Aiel shouldn't win. Hell, under the right circumstances, Perrin could take Lan. He only has to hit him once, remember. That's why attempting to rate them in this way is a fundaentally ridiculous proposition. An objective best cannot be determined, so it quickly degenerates into something more about rampant fanboy/girlism than soberly weighing up who we think could be better. Lan has a lot of fans, Mat has a lot of fans, Galad has a lot of fans, so those people come up the most often. Yet Lan admits Ryne was better than him. Valda was better than Galad, and if he hadn't decided to piss about and had just gone for the kill the pretty boy would be dead. Mat nearly got killed by some Darkfriend in an alley in Maderin, and would have died if Tuon hadn't saved his arse. So, best three: Ryne, Valda, Darkfriend assassin in Maderin.

As a general, I'd put him on the same level as Davram Bashere and Lan.

You just have no idea what level that is, do you? To hell with it, I say put everyone on the same level. Bashere is as good as Napoleon, who is as good as Haig, who is as good as Wellington, who is as good as Eisenhower, who is as good as Lan, who is as good as Rhuarc, who is as good as Zhukov, who is as good as Alexander, who is as good as Foch, who is as good as...you get the picture? Lan may be quite good, but he is nowhere near Bashere's league. Why should we put rhuarc so high?

***Just before he lost his hand, I think Rand could have beaten any sword-wielding opponent except for Lan (that still leaves Mat and the best of the Aiel), he was an excellent archer, slightly better than Mat, and he was pretty good without weapons, as well. Without his hand, however, he can't really use a sword or bow - that right there takes him out of the competition, he's still not as good a general as Mat, Lan, or the clan chiefs.

Aside from Lan is special, why couldn't Rand beat him? And not as good as Mat is one thing, and he certainly listens to the advice of others on matters of strategy, but how can you say with such certainty that he isn't as good as Lan or any of the clan chiefs? Now, most of the lists put forward here are rubbish, but a few aren't. A few are worse. There is no best. On any given day, any one of them could get killed by some nobody. And even at the top levels, I doubt there is enough between any of them to make any meaningful distinctions.

[Charlz Fel]

Everybody knows that, unlike One Power strength, there is no absolute way to test one character's fighting prowess against another, even in principle.  Nevertheless, most posters on this thread seem to think that debating the merits of various characters' fighting abilities is fun.  And, after all, the purpose of the Dragonmount forums is less to produce infallibly supported theories than to have fun, yes?

[Harmless Bandit]

Slightly unrelated but itchy nonetheless:

 

 

I think it's pretty obvious that Rake wins. Everything. Always. He is too awesome.

*Cough*Dassem Ultor*cough* Also, I think Mok or the Soldier/Knight of Death could take him.

 

Rake allowed Dassem to... do what he did. It's not because he's better.

 

Feels better now.

[Mr Ares]

And, after all, the purpose of the Dragonmount forums is to have fun, yes?

Yes, hence my continued presence on this thread. But too much Lan-love is not fun, it is boring.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that Rake wins. Everything. Always. He is too awesome.

*Cough*Dassem Ultor*cough* Also, I think Mok or the Soldier/Knight of Death could take him.

Rake allowed Dassem to... do what he did. It's not because he's better.

Well, Dassem still beat Rake, didn't he? And the mere fact that he threw the fight doesn't prove that he would have won regardless. In fact, that he might otherwise have lost would give him the incentive to lose on his terms.