A question about Rand and Gawyn

[Traelin]

Ok, so we all know Gawyn hates Rand for 'killing' Morgase, but what about after he finds out Morgase isn't dead? Because in KoD Gawyn's slowly heading back to Camlyn and I assume Morgase is eventually going back home too. So when the whole family's reunited again will Gawyn and his younglings join up with Rand or will he hate him even more because Elayne's pregnant?

 

My guess is he won't like having the Dragon Reborn as a brother-in-law but he seemed to like Rand well enough when they first met and Rand did try to continue the friendship in The Fires of Heaven but I don't know if that's enough to break Gawyn's hatred of Rand. hmmm...

[Luckers]

Where did you get the idea that Gawyn was heading home? He's in one of the towns around Tar Valon, and by all indication intends to wait there. Moreover i dont see Morgase going home yet. She would know that her presense so soon after Elayne gained the throne would cloud issues and cause problems. Moreover she isn't likely to reveal herself to Perrin (and through him Rand) any time soon after lying all this time.

[Kaznen]

Gawyn hates Rand because Elyain(?) loves him, on top of him "killing" his mother. Some weird family honor.

 

I think there will be a confrontation between Gawyn and Galad. Gawyn because he thinks Rand killed his mother and his sister. Galad because he knows Rand didn't kill his mother and Rand is his brother.

 

A little side note:

According to Ji'e'toh and Aiel culture siblings born from the same mother are closer then sibling sharing the same father.

 

Galad and Rand...mom

Galad and Gawyn..pop

 

How will this play off.

[Traelin]

I thought, don't remember which book, that Gawyn was trying to get back but had to wait out the winter. Because I remember him saying something about Morgase being dead, he needs to be with Elayne because he's the First Prince of the Sword and was mad that he had to wait for all the snow to melt. I just assumed on Morgase's part. The whole reason she left Caemlyn was to gain support, but then she abdicated as well. It would seem that she would want to get back to make sure someone else didn't get the throne because she named Elayne as her successor. But I admit I'm confused on the whole Morgase thing and don't really know what she's doing.

 

Does Gawyn even know about Rand and Elayne yet? He knows that Min loves Rand, which is a whole another reason to hate him: I doubt Gawyn will understand this whole 3 wives thing, but I don't know if he's found out about Rand and Elayne.

 

I admit what I saw in my mind's eye was Gawyn and his army teaming up with Rand and Galad and the remaining whitecoats teaming up too. Because when, and if, Galad ever finds out that Rand's his brother, he'd ally himself simply because of family honor and whatnot. That's if he ever finds out. After all, there's no real proof and it might be kinda hard to convince Galad that his mom ran off the become a Maiden of the Spear.

[Kaznen]

I think Amys can be very convincing.

[Traelin]

Hmm...I had forgotten about her. Where is she anyways? With Rand or Perrin?

[Kaznen]

I think she's with Rhurac in Arad Domain.

[Luckers]

She is.

 

And no, he said he should be with Elayne, but doesn't know where she is. The aes Sedai have manipulated that, and made sure he doesn't learn of Elaynes need.

[algspkr]

Gawyn hates Rand because Elyain(?) loves him' date=' on top of him "killing" his mother. Some weird family honor.

 

I think there will be a confrontation between Gawyn and Galad. Gawyn because he thinks Rand killed his mother and his sister. Galad because he knows Rand didn't kill his mother and Rand is his brother.

[b']

A little side note:

According to Ji'e'toh and Aiel culture siblings born from the same mother are closer then sibling sharing the same father.

[/b]

Galad and Rand...mom

Galad and Gawyn..pop

 

How will this play off.

Interesting observation, I wonder if it will prove to be important.

[Guest Majsju]

Gawyn hates Rand because Elyain(?) loves him' date=' on top of him "killing" his mother. Some weird family honor.

 

I think there will be a confrontation between Gawyn and Galad. Gawyn because he thinks Rand killed his mother and his sister. Galad because he knows Rand didn't kill his mother and Rand is his brother.

[b']

A little side note:

According to Ji'e'toh and Aiel culture siblings born from the same mother are closer then sibling sharing the same father.

[/b]

Galad and Rand...mom

Galad and Gawyn..pop

 

How will this play off.

Interesting observation, I wonder if it will prove to be important.

 

Why would it? None of them are Aiel, except that Rand has bloodties to them. But neither Galad nor Gawyn have any reason to care even the slightest about Aiel culture.

[algspkr]

Why would it? None of them are Aiel' date=' except that Rand has bloodties to them. But neither Galad nor Gawyn have any reason to care even the slightest about Aiel culture.[/quote']

You are probably correct, but I think it would be interesting if you are not.

[Inara]

i think poor gawyn has way too little 'sreen' time in this series, and there had better be a confrontation involving him and rand in the next book, preferably closely following a confrontation with egwene....just as he swears to kill rand and rushes him, perrin marches in with morgase in tow...

ohhh, i feel some fan-fiction coming on....after the end of semester :?

[Kadere]

Gawyn gets a heck of a lot more screen time then Galad though. We don't hear from Galad between the middle of FoH all the way to KoD

[Inara]

true, but

gawyn is the love interest, his character is much more complex, and he is closer to elayne.

although, galad's first POV was an absolute ripper.

it was his first wasnt it, in KOD.

[weeping anchor]

KoD spoilers below. Its a brain-dump, sorry.

 

Galad is now leading the entire whitecloacks, they are on a mission, and they will join Rand or whoever is fighting the Seanchan/Shadow. Galad knows Morgase was alive in Amador, but not that she still lives and is now free, even of the Aiel. It seems Morgase has been captive of someone or other for about 1/2 the series...

 

Gawyn is a more interesting flawed character. He needs to remain close to Tar Valon so he can pay the price. He is facing the consequences of his crossroads from Egwene's foretelling...down one road he dies in bed of old age surrounded by family. Down the other path he has a premature violent death. Mmmmm - I wonder which one it will be...If he doesn't get there in time, it will be Egwene's head under the falling axe blade (another of her foretellings). Not a difficult choice for Gawyn if he has to sacrifice his life for hers. She set him on the path, so she will carry most of the blame for his death (in her own head anyway), and she will carry that on her soul and be a sad person for a long time. She will be like Rand over Moraine (at least until he sees Moraine again in the next book).

 

Hopefully Gawyn will learn of Elaine and Morgase being alive before he dies, so he at least won't carry such a burden to his grave, feeling as if he failed in some way.

 

Galad is a story of the less sympathetic character doing the right thing for the right reasons, so you feel better about him the longer you read about him. Gawyn is a story of a very sympathetically written character falling into the morally weaker side of a battle because he shows dubious judgement. He is unaware that all the people he cares about oppose and are key enemies of Elaida. He made a bad choice, and when he realises, he will have to pay a price for being wrong in blood...as will anyone who makes the seriously terminal decision of being between him and Egwene when light dawns...boy can Galad/Gawyn kick butt (anyone except Matt's butt anyway...)

[Inara]

dont kill gawyn, i really like him...

:cry:

anyway, i think the axe thing is a metaphore

trhere will be an incident, egwene's life will be in grave and immediate danger. at the same time gawyn will be somehow discovering who she is now and her position in the tower. at first he will be angry because he chose the wrong side, then at the last possible minute he will throw over all his loyalties (exept to egwene) and go and help her.

not resue her, but help her survive whatever it is.

sketchy, with lots of room for interpretation...go ahead...make my day

[Kaznen]

I think the sibling bond might be more of a familar thing then a cultural thing. On some deep down level Galad and Rand have a relationship that no one else can have because they came from the same mother. How it plays out though...I don't know.

[Luckers]

Does anyone else get the feeling Gawyn will learn how to channel?

[Featherless Hawkwing]

I don't think so. Maybe Galad, never Gawyn. Gawyn would have shown the spark by now (there's an outside chance he's a real late bloomer: don't count on it) and if he can LEARN how to channel, then there's no chance: he would kill himself before actually choosing to channel saidin.

[dega]

When it comes to who kicks butt Galad may have started out a Bad*** as was demonstated with the mob in samara. But Gawyn in the 7th book took 3 Aiel down in about 3 seconds. While Galad had to struggle with Valda. the only people that could beat either one is Mat or course, Lan who makes it look easy, or Rand who can hold his own with Lan, who also had already killed his first blade master in the 2nd book and nearly got his head handed to him in the 3rd by Be'lal who besides being beat by sammual and perhaps tied with Lews therin. Sammual might even give Lan a run for his money.

On the Egwene note I think that if Gawyn saves Egwene while not breaking her neck, and he doesn't get killed in TG then he'll die in bed.

[Luckers]

I don't think so. Maybe Galad' date=' never Gawyn. Gawyn would have shown the spark by now (there's an outside chance he's a real late bloomer: don't count on it) and if he can LEARN how to channel, then there's no chance: he would kill himself before actually choosing to channel saidin.[/quote']

 

Firstly, men start channeling as late as thirty when they have the spark. But i dont think Gawyn has the spark in any case.

 

Concider this. Gawyn himself at various stages gave thought to how he, as a non-channeler, could possible hope to fight and kill Rand. Secondly, he is in love with Egwene, who is already far out of his league in her strength. Thirdly we have never seen Gawyn disavow channeling... indeed, despite the fact that both he and Galad were disatisfied with Aes Sedai, he has stayed close to them, he has sworn himself as warder to one of them, and during the battle of dumai's wells showed no direct disgust for male channelers, more focused was he on his hatred of Rand. So i don't think your assertion of his willingness to kill himself rather then channel has any grounds.

 

He has a lot of reasons to channel, and no more dislike for channelers then any other man... and we've seen many of those get over it. I think Gawyn will start to learn from one of the Asha'men housed in Tar Valon... a darkfriend who plans to loose him on Rand--his hatred of rand will be fed to drive him to it, and the cleaness of the one power used to insite...

 

At least, i think thats how it'll begin, there isn't enough time for his revenge plot to play out so i dont think it will. I think it will be interupted, possibly by Egwene... he'll get over his hatred, and his learning to channel properly will be something that is implied to take place after the end of the series.

[Inara]

perhaps, because he sure as hell wont be taking rand up on his amnesty.

getting gawyn to attack rand would be an ingeneous way of putting rifts all over the place.

Rand/Elayne

Rand/Egwene

Elayne/Gawyn

Egwene/Gawyn

Galad/Rand (if they ever find out theyre brothers)

 

its not easy to forget your brother tried to kill your husband etc etc etc.

[Luckers]

You see i dont actually think that Gawyn will ever actually attack Rand... at least not in a big way... there will be a confrontation, sure... and i think that Gawyn's hatred of Rand will be used to force him to start channeling, or at the very least manipulated by Pevara's bonded darkfriends.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Between Gawyn's irriational hatred of Rand (irrationaly because the word of an unknown peddlar met in a chance encounter outways the word of people he professes to love) and his unmeritted feeling that he failed in his duty to Elayne and Andor as the First Prince of the Sword, he as become emotionally unstable. In addition to that, there is much more of Galad in him than Gawyn and Elayne choose to admit.

 

He stayed in Tar Valon when Elaida deposed Suian because he considered it to be the right thing to do. He helped Suian escape because he knew that Elayne and Egwene would want him too but he shows signs of being emotionally torn by that action as he knows it wasn't the right thing in the eyes of the Law though. He knows that Elayne and Egwene oppose Elaida, but he backs Elaida because he considers her the lawful Amyrlin, raised by the legitimate Hall of the Tower. Even when he suspects (and we know) that Elaida is actively trying to have him killed, he still backs her because that is the right thing to do.

 

At this point, I think he is one of the most screwed up characters in the book, trying to predict his actions is completely impossible.

[dagwall]

what's this about Gawyn being bonded or promised to be bonded? He isn't. Egewen has plans of her own to bond him, and may have said such to him but there has been no mention of anyone else bonding him.