Loraine Sedai, Master Kynwric, Mistress Thera and her merry band of trainees

[Quisalas Selene]

If I am not mistaken, all of us have the reqs filled for being TG's filled because of the change in the rule to allow up to 4 electives for our WS increases, and all of those reqs are dated prior to this trip.  If we do this trip as trainees, I don't think there's any way for it to count as a requirement for any of the four of us.  Which means it will just purely be RP.  While I am okay with that, it would be nice if it got to count for something. 

 

If we did it as Tower Guards, it could count for our reqs under that, and any reference to us being "trainees" could be a general term of still learning the ropes of being Tower Guards. 

 

The big problems in continuity come with this happening in the tiny frame of time between our raisings and Arath's trip with Eqwina Sedai, and with Jasine proposing to Thera.  Jasine proposed before he was raised, and once he was raised, there was no reason to keep it a secret from anyone else, so a lot of the in-post wordplay would be out of place.

 

For all logical IC reasons, this should be kept as being prior to us raising to TG, but that does kind of suck to have a thread this long and magnificent mean a whole lot of zip as far as WS scores.

 

If this was taken after we were TGs, it could very easily count for three WS reqs:

 

Social Call - A TG will organize a role-play with 2 or more PCs (must be 2 or more players) from the White Tower. Cannot be with your promised or Aes Sedai. Minimum 5 posts

Road Trip - Organize a trip out of Tar Valon with other PCs (must be another player or players). (RP outline must be approved by Staff) Minimum 5 posts

Advanced Survival – take a trip into the wilderness and show your innovation in surviving an unimaginable event. Minimum 7 posts.

 

And then bam, with the TG ceremony, we'd all be WS 10.  It's hard to say no to that kind of advancement for the sake of IC logic.  Granted, the social call one says "organize" but I think we were all involved enough in the set up of this that we could say we shared organization, but I dunno.

 

If we do it as trainees and get no WS improvement from it at all, we'll all still get there eventually and we'll all still play through this thread and enjoy the heck out of it. 

 

 

So that's my thoughts on it in general.  I don't know which way to swing, so if someone really wants it to be post-raising, I'll probably stand with them. 

[Talavin]

Ok, if Eqwina okays this being used for all three reqs I think I would be having a strongly worded conversation with her :P

 

I'm saying this as just a player in the RP, and not from a staff standpoint, but I can't rationalize jumping three WS from one thread (regardless of its enormity) I would love to have it count for one req though :) Preferably Social Call or Advanced Survival

[Eqwina]

Hrm.... Q makes good points on both sides. I for one never have an issue with RP's not counting for Reqs; especially when they are as fun as this one is.

 

I was not thinking that it could be used to advance everyone 3 WS points in one shot. *le sigh* I blame my lack of observence on stress  :P I was okay with it counting for 1.

 

For the sake of not messing with everyones timelines and confusing your poor MoT we will leave the post as it stands, but maybe I can work something out....

 

Anybody want a cookie? or maybe a piece of cake?

[Talavin]

I prefer to just ignore the timeline and then act like I understand what's happening ;)

 

;D

[Eqwina]

*shoves a cookie in his mouth* You sit over there a be quiet

[Talavin]

;)

[Sieve]

I can see using it for 1 of 3 possible Req's that it fits into but I could not see it counting for all 3.  As fun as it is it would be nice to have it count for something.

 

Assuming that we are Tower Guards for this one could cause a little confusion between Perivar and Kabria though I am sure we can figure it all out.  I'm good with whatever decision is made.

[Sieve]

I loved Lor's post in response to Perivar's fight.  I left Perivar's post open ended so it could have been anyone who approached him though it seemed perfect that it was Loraine.  I loved her response to Perivar and the insight into her past.  It was amazing!

 

I was so nervous when I posted that it would be misunderstood, that it would seem grandiouse though it was actually quite the opposite.  It was merely character development for Perivar who if you can't tell is having some issues at the moment, kind of showing he is human after all.  If he ever knew that he missed Loraine's attempt to get his attention when she was near the window or when she saw Anluan approaching and wondered where he wase would have made him suicidal.  He felt guilty enough that he hadn't reached her in time.  I remember reading that and I got that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. 

 

Anyway it was an excellent post and I have his response boring a hole in my head though I want to give everyone else a chance to post first.

[Jehaine]

Yeah, it should count as 1 out of 3. Otherwise, we'd ICly get more WS in a week than during most of our years as Trainees. That would be... rather fast.

 

I think Quis meant that btw, she just mentioned that it could be used as either of the three reqs she proposed. I'd be using the first part as Road Trip, and the second part (post-Palace, into Amadicia) as Advanced Survival since we agreed it'd take place in a new thread. With the first thread at page 10, i'm sure we all managed to make the posting minimum there ;)

 

My two cents.

[Quisalas Selene]

It was going to count for two of my choice reqs as a trainee before you allowed the extra electives, and that would have been two WS.  I don't see how this is any different, it still makes perfect sense.  If Kynwric and Thera use the RP for both halves of the Wake Up Call, and Kynwric uses it for Leadership as well, and all of that makes perfect sense to me, I don't see how a thread that is over 100 posts long (and probably only half complete so far) couldn't count for 3 WS. 

 

If it meets the post requirements, the PC requirements, and the content requirements, I don't see why it shouldn't provide the WS advancement.  There's nothing in the advancement page about it not being the case, the fact that it happens in one trip shouldn't matter.

 

I have no objections to it being kept as trainees, but I can't understand how it would have been multiple reqs for trainees, will count as multiple reqs (or parts of reqs) for the existing Warders, but it wouldn't be multiple reqs for us if we did tweak it to be after the promotions.  That just doesn't make sense.

 

[edited to add]

 

Even in Jehaine's post, she mentions using it as two reqs, because that makes sense.  If Kynwric breaks it into three threads so he can do his Leadership req, it could be used for three reqs for the baby TGs as well.

[Eqwina]

I think it is the point Seive made..Icly you would gain 3 WS points for a few weeks of work. That is more than you normally get in a year. For all three threads that Kynwric and I are using it for we get raise 1 point.

 

That is the difference in how hard it is for you to advance at the higher levels.

 

Also, assuming that you all were already TG's would mess with a lot of timelines and ongoing stories. SO...the decision is this. You will all remain trainees for this thread.

 

But, since this RP is highly involved and takes a lot of work (and I am super nice  )I will allow you to use this in place of Road Trip once you are a TG. I won’t be making exceptions like this again, the only reason I am this time is because it was poor planning on EVERYONE’S part to not realize that this would a happen once you were all TG’s OOCly.

 

[Sieve]

Well this is all null and void now though perhaps a consideration for the future.

 

Q makes a compelling point.  Given the amount of time and effort invested in this collaborative endeavor it is essentially the equivalent of several smaller threads.  As long as it satisfies the req what does it really matter if it counts for more than one.  The way I look at it is akin to the bonus points that other divisions get for threads such as this.  If it satisfies everyone we can set a limit at 2 reqs per person as long as it satisfies the req and the DL approves it first?

[Quisalas Selene]

The Flame & Void class Jasine took was over in one day, the Basic fitness took two, Arath's Survival choice and his Evaluation choise each took less than a day.  4-5 days IC, 4 WS.  That's why there are age and time constraints on the raisings.  Even with Jasine starting at WS 1, I could have had his 4 WS done in about two weeks OOC time, submitted his final steps, and he'd have been raised.  He still would have aged 2 years in that time, I just wouldn't have had to role-play any of his training after those four threads.  How quickly they gain the WS should have no bearing whatsoever on whether or not they're allowed to claim a thread as a req.

 

And yeah, at this point it's mostly just discussion for if anything like this happens again.

 

[Eqwina]

I understand what you are all saying, but there are also rules to follow. If you are a trainee in the thread then it can only count as a req for a trainee. That is the bottom line. IF this were another situation then there is already no issue with someone getting multiple WS from a set of threads, or how quickly it happens.

 

 

[Quisalas Selene]

Yeah, I said in my first post that by all logic, we should stay as trainees.  The question originally was whether or not we would tweak it so this trip happened after our TG ceremony. If we were TGs, I could see it counting for those three reqs.

 

 

[Eqwina]

IF you had already been TG's when this started and it had been written that way then you could have. There was never a question of that.

 

 

[Quisalas Selene]

I understand that OOC they may have their reqs complete and be ready to move on. The problem is that IC they are still trainees and cannot be raised to Tower Guards while they are out of the Tower.

 

What we can do is if no one has used this as a req to become TG, I can't remember if anyone did.... we can play it out under the assumption that they had just be raised to TG before leaving the Tower and this was a training mission. 

 

Raising us to TG before the trip was what you were talking about to begin with.

 

((There we go, that's what it said.))

[Eqwina]

Yes, I was trying to find a way for everyone to get a WS raise since we have all worked so hard on this RP.

In my rush I did no realize that it would raise you all 3 WS points. I cannot see breaking the rules to THAT extent. That is not fair to everyone else not involved in this.

[Eqwina]

GAH! I was trying to quote your post and somehow when I was trying to back out I messed it up!! *wails* Sorry Q!!!

 

Just to let everyone know she quoted when I was talking about raising you to TG's so that you could get some WS gain from it.

[Sieve]

True, I guess it would not be fair to others though it is a shame that so many threads are all for nothing.  I was hoping to use the meeting between Perivar and Kabria as the "In the Town" req though I can't since he is a trainee in the thread not a TG.  Same with the trip, ooh well, having fun is more important than WS though it is still a shame to waste good work :'(.  I guess I'll just chalk them up as fun and character development.

 

I know this is tough on Eqwina, she is in a tough position as DL since what we do here affects the other divisions.  

[Eqwina]

Meh..Thanks Sieve, but I am not going back on allowing you to use this in place of Road Trip once you are TG's. I think gaining at least one WS is more than fair  :D

[Jehaine]

Ah k. So it's basically the Evaluation for this thread, and Road Trip for the follow-up given that we would ICly have passed the evaluation. Though the Ceremony can not be performed outside of the Yards for the preparations involved, we would count as de facto TGs for that thread, even when rank wise we would officially still be Trainees.

 

All it would take would be some conversation in the Palace where you announce we all passed the final test and are ready to become TGs once returning to the Yards. Then we talk about whether or not joining Kyn and Lor to Amadicia, making preparations to send back those that don't want to join on the second thread to go back to the Yards. I'm sure Thera would want to have a say in that as well, given that they're still her responsability until the actual ceremony takes place.

 

Thoughts?

[Sieve]

I am not going back on allowing you to use this in place of Road Trip once you are TG's. I think gaining at least one WS is more than fair  :D

 

Thanks, I must have missed that part.  ;)

 

Sounds good to me Jehaine!

[Quisalas Selene]

Fixed my post, no worries. :)

 

[_Kynwric_]

I am so lost... 4 pages people! Since last night...

 

So, I agree with Eqwina. *nods*

 

Whatever that is.