Unwinding of the Pattern

[Tel Janin Aellinsar]

I thought the Dark One was just trying to affect reality to create chaos. What would merging worlds/time do for him? I think it would just count against him, as the light would get more poeple.

 

Not necessarily, remember, as far as we have seen (or as far as I can remember) these ghosts, shades, the dead, whatever you want to call them have not been able to manifest in any practical way in the "real" world.  In fact, the only effect that these apparitions have had was with the merchant that Mat observed, sinking in the same place as the village that should not have been there, and really, that may have had more to do with the cohesiveness of the pattern than the appearence of the village itself.  But beyond that, if you look logically at it, the DO must have a deeper plan than simply merging timelines or scaring people with ghosts.  As many people have pointed out, these rearranging corridors and walking dead have not hurt anyone, unless you count getting lost and delayed on your way through one of the rearranged buildings.  Ergo, these phenomena must be side effects of whatever the DO's minions are doing, rather than the objective.

 

No need to meld time periods where awesome generals might have lived.

 

Let me preface my comments here by noting that my pet theory can be read earlier in this thread, so everything I say here is pure speculation, but it is logical. 

 

I do not think that the DO has to worry about bringing in awesome generals from other times/worlds.  If, and I stress if the DO believed that melding worlds/timelines would add more people to this world, he would only do it if that would aid him.  In science/science fiction there is a concept called entropic decay failure or cascading entropic decay.  The terms vary because real scientists who work in the field of quantum mechanics don't even agree if it is possible let alone the mechanism.  But anyway, the theory is premised on entropy.  Because energy is 'lost' as heat in every energy transfer and energy cannot be created (Law of the Conservation of Energy) eventually the universe will run out of energy and everything will be residual energy decay/inert matter.  Like I said, this is all theoretical, and not every scientist believes it to be true.  But in theory, if you could bring someone accross the dimensional barrier, that person would begin to interact with our universe and not his own, increasing the rate at which waste energy is produced.  Therefore, the overall entropy of our universe would be accelerated.  Now, one additional person would be meaningless in the cosmic scale, so would one hundred, or one million; even one trillion would probably not increase the rate of entropy in a measurable way.  (Although we could assume our planet would be ruined if we tried to put a trillion people on it at one time).  However, if you buy the quantum mechanics theory of multiple universes, which says that for each choice that has two different alternatives, the universe duplicates into another dimension and a seperate universe where each consequence happened is created.  Therefore there are an infinite number of universes that contain various incarnations of our world in which each minor difference has created a new universe (even such mundane things as having pancakes vs. waffles for breakfast.)

 

Now I happen to think that both theories are so much mumbo jumbo garbage.  But if you apply them to the WoT universe, here is how it would work.  The portal stones we know connect the worlds that might have been with the world that is.  If whatever the DO is up to has the consequence of merging all the alternative worlds, then in theory infinite numbers of people will pour into this world, the resulting entropic cascade would 'use up' all the energy in the univserse, destroying it.

 

The only reason for this would be if the DO actually needs to destroy the world in order to break free and recreate it.  There are other threads discussing that, so I won't waste space reproducing them, but they basically say that Ishamael has to be Nae'blis because he is the only one who understands that the DO has to destroy the pattern (and all the people who make it up) in order to escape his prison (which is the pattern itself) and then he can recreate a new wheel and pattern to his design.

 

So to summarize, the DO probably isn't trying to cause these ghosts or mergings, they are side effects of whatever he is doing, and there is certainly no need to worry about awesome generals showing up from another world/time.

 

PS.  Luckers, thanks for correcting my misquote from TGH in my last post in the thread.  I was trying to do it from memory when I really couldn't remember what it said.

 

PPS.  This is what happens when lawyers write/talk, it generally takes up a lot of space/time and really says very little of consequence.

[CUBAREY]

PPS.  This is what happens when lawyers write/talk, it generally takes up a lot of space/time and really says very little of consequence.

 

 

 

Iresemble that remark! :D

[Tel Janin Aellinsar]

PPS.  This is what happens when lawyers write/talk, it generally takes up a lot of space/time and really says very little of consequence.

 

 

 

Iresemble that remark! :D

 

Well, I have to have an excuse for being full of hot air, and since I am a lawyer, it works as well as any other excuse.

[benr]

It seems to me that the Light and the Dark One are working towards a common goal - getting the DR to TG.  There are some on both sides that don't necessarily agree with this goal, so it may get hairy yet.  The question is, what will the confrontation be between the DO and the DR?  Is it really a "confrontation"?  It isn't going to be your traditional encounter - it won't be man vs man (or woman).  The DO is something completely outside the WOT.  I still believe that the Creator and the DO are one and the same; the Creator has become trapped in his own creation; the DR is the key to releasing her/him/it.  The DO will continue to manuever the DR towards TG time after time until a release is effected.  In the DO's time, these encounters may almost seem to be instantaneous; time after time; as the DO exists outside of time.  Time (and BS) will tell.

[CUBAREY]

the Creator has become trapped in his own creation;?

 

 

How exactly do you support this statement? So the Creator makes the world and then turns around and tries to destroy it by utilizing evil?  I can buy Luckers theory that the Creator and the DO are equal in power (don't necessarily agree but its logical and can be supported by evidence in the story, but the same entity?

[MatrixM]

That they are equa in power has been confirmed by Robert Jordan. Perhaps benr is referring to the theory that the Creator went crazy and imprisoned himself.

[RAND AL THOR]

the theory that the Creator went crazy and imprisoned himself.

 

Seems very unlikely. ::)

[benr]

Sort of.  It wasn't my theory (sorry, can't remember who, and with the number of posts and topics I haven't been able to find it), I just liked the elegance of it.  The theory basically was that the WOT world was an actual creation by a sentient being; at the time of the creation the being was trapped within it.  Not from being crazy, just from miscalculation.  RJ saying that the DO and the Creator have equal power doesn't eliminate this idea.  Based on concrete evidence?  No.  Eliminated by concrete evidence?  No.  Far-fetched?  Maybe.  But - we'll see (as RJ often said, we will RAFO).  

[RAND AL THOR]

The theory basically was that the WOT world was an actual creation by a sentient being; at the time of the creation the being was trapped within it.  Not from being crazy, just from miscalculation.

 

A being creates the entire univers, one power and sets the planets and stars in motion and breathes life into the world and then traps itself due to 'miscalculation?'  All I can say for such an idea is : OH-MY-GOD!

[CUBAREY]

No.  Eliminated by concrete evidence?  No.  Far-fetched?  Maybe. 

 

Any evidence at all in support of the hypothesis besides your belief?

[benr]

The theory basically was that the WOT world was an actual creation by a sentient being; at the time of the creation the being was trapped within it.  Not from being crazy, just from miscalculation.

 

A being creates the entire univers, one power and sets the planets and stars in motion and breathes life into the world and then traps itself due to 'miscalculation?'  All I can say for such an idea is : OH-MY-GOD!

 

Not THE universe, A universe.  I like the OH-MY-GOD part, though.

 

No, I don't think that there is any direct evidence to support this hypothesis, although the statement by RJ that the DO and the Creator have equal power I find encouraging. 

[Lord Nik]

hmmm i cant see the DO being the creator... to many things that dont work with that... and ive always believed the creator is stronger then the dark one

[RAND AL THOR]

The Creator created the One Power to drive the Wheel and and the universe.

 

The DO created the True Power for his own evil schemes (I guess).

 

This suggests that their difference in power may not be that great.

[Lord Nik]

ha! There only one true power while there is saidin and saidar!!! CREATOR WINS

[RAND AL THOR]

ha! There only one true power while there is saidin and saidar!!! CREATOR WINS

 

;D I concede defeat.

[Luckers]

ha! There only one true power while there is saidin and saidar!!! CREATOR WINS

 

Well, arguably since only the weaver can see what he has woven from the True Power, or feel the sensation of its use, then it could be suggested that there are as many True Powers as their have been wielders--29 by the way.

[Lord Nik]

If thats the case then DO really loses. Cant even make something universally available to his true followers. Its like giving them each a really cool pool that only they can use compared to the oceans that is usable to all channelers. And the DO had to make 29 powers? Creator only had to make 2 and hasnt even needed to change it!

[Luckers]

And if i then turn it back on you and say despite the absense of sensation its only one power, and therefore more effective than the dualities of the 'one power'.... which was the reason the bore was drilled.

 

You just want the Creator to be better than the Dark One, and nothing we know suggests that, no matter which way we play it.

[Craig Lee]

Does anyone else think that this might not be the DO at all, but rather the results of the massive fight between Rand and Rahvin? I mean, after all they went swinging through the palace tossing balefire left and right as well as all kinds of other uses of the power. Sure a major part took place in the palace’s dream plane, including the conclusion, but that conclusion was a bolt of balefire so massive it brought people back to life that had been killed about a half hour or more ago by the target! Is it possible that this fight damaged the pattern of the palace somehow and that eventually resulted in corridors changing? Just a thought.

[wotfan4472]

That fight between Rahvin and Rand mostly took place in the world of dreams.

 

However, it is interesting to see the type of damage that happened in that fight show up much, much later in the physical world. I still think though, the oddities in the real world later in the books are all results of bubbles of evil from the seals failing.

Edited May 13, 2022 by wotfan4472