Secret Groups

[Guest tree-brother]

Ok there is the Aiel Wise Ones, the Kin, and the Seafolk Windfinders. Does anyone else think that there maybe one or two more secret groups of channelers hidden somewhere.

[Luckers]

It seems almost certain that there are Darkfriend Channelers--ones not linked to any of the pre-existing organisations. We know that Taim has trained men, and though he says they went mad and died that seems unlikely given he's a darkfriend. Liandrin also infers it as well.

[Jehaine]

Not really, the Kin pretty much take in everyone that's not in the WT, or fall under the Aiel or Sea Folk.

 

Wise Ones and Sea Folk are much too efficient to miss people, and between the WT and the Kin there are precious little known channelers left. The ones that aren't discovered by either would form groups too small to be of any real impact, or be absorbed into the Kin at some point or another.

 

The Darkfriends prety much are a known group as well, and they'd have channelers among them as well, though mostly in the Black Ajah. Similarly, i believe Taim is setting up some sort of Black Ajah in the Black Tower as well, though it'd still be more of a faction than an independant, separate group.

[Luckers]

Actually thats not true about the Kin. The Kin only accept women who have recieved training in the Tower. Wilders are completely excluded from their organisation, and even with 3 in 4 dying thats gonna be a conciderable group.

 

Keep in mind that somewhere around 100,000 women have the ability in the Westlands alone--most of those would be learners, and pass completely unnoticed, it's true, but still... the numbers speak for themself.

 

The Darkfriends prety much are a known group as well, and they'd have channelers among them as well, though mostly in the Black Ajah. Similarly, i believe Taim is setting up some sort of Black Ajah in the Black Tower as well, though it'd still be more of a faction than an independant, separate group.

 

The part i doubt is the 'mostly in the Black Ajah'. We know that Ishamael gathered and trained channelers during the Trolloc Wars, and in enough numbers to equal the Tower, so between 3,000 and 6,000... frankly i don't see him having ignored that this time--especially given what we know of Taim's prior activities.

 

And Taim has gathered a group within the Black Tower--roughly a hundred men.

[bronnt]

And Taim has gathered a group within the Black Tower--roughly a hundred men.

 

Mazrim Taim and the Hundred Companions?

 

Doesn't seem as exciting.

[trakand_01]

"Mazrim Taim and the Hundred Arrogant Tw*ts" sounds better.

 

Especially seeing as a good length of steel will do for them just as well as a bolt of power-wrought lightening.

 

I suspect that Shara will have their own groups of channelers but we may never meet them. You missed the Sul'dam and Damane from your inital list.

 

I wouldnt be surprised to learn that some Ogiers could channel either - after all when they spend most of their time within Stedding, how would they ever know they had the ability?

[aevogt]

It seems almost certain that there are Darkfriend Channelers--ones not linked to any of the pre-existing organisations. We know that Taim has trained men, and though he says they went mad and died that seems unlikely given he's a darkfriend. Liandrin also infers it as well.

 

I disagree on this one.  The Aes Sedai tend to jump on any group or organization of channelers with both feet.  At least in the West they do.  Even a Black sister would disperse a group of darkfriend channelers and drag it's members to the Tower for punishment and training, if for no other reason than to increase the numbers of the BA in the Tower.  After all, Aes Sedai, Black or otherwise are all anbout control.

 

While I admit the Aes Sedai are blind to what they won't see, we haven't gotten so much as a glimmer that there is anything out there other than those we have seen.  I just don't accept the theory about the Aiel men in the Blight.  Any of those would have gone insane and rotted and died in a few years so what would be the point of training them.  only those that had gone in the last couple years would be worth anything.  Also, if their numbers are anything like that on the other side of the Spine,

 

I do see a lot of those we though were on the side of the Light being exposed as DFs but, while I abdmit it's not inconceiveable that a new group will pop up in the last book, it just doesn't feel right that all this time there was a group that would tip tha ablance and no one, The Chosen included, knows anything about it.

[Luckers]

I disagree on this one.  The Aes Sedai tend to jump on any group or organization of channelers with both feet.  At least in the West they do.  Even a Black sister would disperse a group of darkfriend channelers and drag it's members to the Tower for punishment and training, if for no other reason than to increase the numbers of the BA in the Tower.  After all, Aes Sedai, Black or otherwise are all anbout control.

 

But what makes you think that they are effective at this? Oh they preach a good story about just how fierce they are, but the last time they actually found a group was two hundred years ago, and by every account the Daughters of Silence flaunted themselves. Hell, they'd convinced themselves the Kin numbered no more than a couple of dozen whilst there were in fact 1,783. How can they be effective if they've missed all those organized Kin members accross the nations?

 

The Blacks would not bring in the darkfriend channelers unless commanded to, and Ishamael was holding strict control of the Ajah. Besides, thats assuming that they are living in Westlands... why? They might as easily live in the blasted lands, though i'd doubt Shayol Goul. And some suggest the Lands of the Madmen, though that would require being able to Travel, which seemingly they don't know.

 

While I admit the Aes Sedai are blind to what they won't see, we haven't gotten so much as a glimmer that there is anything out there other than those we have seen.

 

Actually we do. Taim speaks of training men. He claims he only found five, and that only one actually got training and then went mad after two years, yet given that Taim is a darkfriend that seems unlikely. Furthermore, Liandrin infers that she herself recieved training prior to going to the Tower--she thinks that she was a darkfriend long before the Tower, and that she whilst she had been able to channel before coming to the Tower she was no wilder. A clear contradiction of realities, yet she is firm on it--its not that she avoids thinking about it, she is just clear that she is no wilder.

 

Furthermore and finally we know that Ishamael did the same thing in Trolloc Wars--there was no Black Ajah then, no organised group in the Aes Sedai, and yet even early on trained Dreadlords--men and women both--fought for the Shadow--in numbers that matched the Tower. That means that Ishamael had men and women seperately trained.

 

So yes, it is pretty much certain that he would have done the same thing this time round. He had an active cycle 16 years prior to beginning of the story in which we know he was specifically aware that the Dragon had been Reborn (he killed Jarna Milari for putting Tamra Ospenya to the question, and then enacting the 'search and destroy' mission).

 

I just don't accept the theory about the Aiel men in the Blight.  Any of those would have gone insane and rotted and died in a few years so what would be the point of training them.  only those that had gone in the last couple years would be worth anything.  Also, if their numbers are anything like that on the other side of the Spine,

 

The Dark One can shield them from the Taint--he did as much for male Dreadlords during the Trolloc Wars--so no, they needn't have gone in the last few years. And furthermore we know the numbers on the other side of the Spine arn't accurate. Male channelers over there are going somewhere too.

[trakand_01]

Something that strikes me. We have darkfriends in the Tower, darkfriends amongst the Aiel (Sevanna being one of the biggest), darkfriends amongst westlanders, amongst the Whitecloaks, amongst the borderlanders, but we havent come across darkfriends in the Seanchan (Semi doesnt count, she's not a seanchan), the Ogier, the Tinkers or the Kin.

 

Is it concievable that these four 'huge' groups as far as our story (and the future, as I think it's quite believable that the Ogier will re-build the world and the Tinkers will re-populate it to a large extent - personal opinion) are devoid of darkfriends? Or Channelers! Seanchan and Kin aside, we know of no Tinker or Ogier channelers - can that be?

[Luckers]

Firstly, Sevannah is not a darkfriend... she's just a bitch.

 

Secondly we have seen Darkfriends amongst Seanchan--Suroth and Elbar, and Suroth in her thoughts references others, but its made clear that being a darkfriend is very dangerous amongst the Seanchan because of the Seekers.

 

Thirdly we saw a darkfriend Tinker at the meeting at Shayol Goul in the prologue of tGH, so we know there are darkfriends there too.

 

As for the Kin, my guess is any darkfriend channelers put out of the Tower get snapped up by Ishamael before they have a chance to join--beyond that the Kin are quite timid in a way that i don't see allowing them to become darkfriends. And the Ogier... maybe, maybe not. We havn't seen enough to judge.

 

And we do know Tinker channelers, Aisling Noon for one. Whenever a Tuatha'an girl manifests the spark she gets taken straight to the Tower and abandoned there.

 

And Ogier can't channel.

[trakand_01]

Suroth's a darkfriend? That must be in the future from where I am at present.

 

How do we know Ogier can't channel? Is it possible that the Stedding and their anti-channelling properties just stop the spark from manifesting itself, slow down the channelling development? For Ogier who never venture out of the stedding, maybe they'll never ever know?

[Charlz Guybon]

 

 

I suspect that Shara will have their own groups of channelers but we may never meet them.

 

They do. The Ayyad, RJ talks about them in the BWB.

[aevogt]

 

Suroth is exposed in The Great Hunt"  She speaks with Liandrin about "The master we both serve"  Baalzamon/Ishmael

 

She is visited by Semihrage in the beginning of KoD and ordered to kill Tuon

[Luckers]

How do we know Ogier can't channel? Is it possible that the Stedding and their anti-channelling properties just stop the spark from manifesting itself, slow down the channelling development? For Ogier who never venture out of the stedding, maybe they'll never ever know?

 

In a word, no. Ogier in the Age of Legends were not bound to the stedding, and neither are Ogier in Seanchan, and during the breaking there was a three hundred year period when the Ogier lost the stedding altogether... no channeling.

 

Beyond that though, its simply inferred that they can't, or else they could and we would have seen it. Such a thing would not have gone unnoticed in the Age of Legends.