Quien Mas Chosen?

[Myndrunner]

Who do you believe is the PRIMO Chosen of the group?

 

I would say that Ishamel is, being Nablis and all, but what about Demandred? I get the feeling that we are in for a Forsaken show down in MoL. 

 

-Myndrunner

[trakand_01]

At the moment Moridin is the leader of the forsaken, if one had to be named. He already has Moghedien, Cyndane and Graendal under his authority, and Aran'gar(??) also takes heed of him. Demandred I think will follow Moridin until he sees a way to break free. If the body-swap theory comes to pass, I think Demandred may take advantage and usurp Moridin, but I do not think that Moghedien, Cyndane or Graendal should be underestimated. They may be cowed for now, but none of them are stupid.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I think Logain will kill Demandred in AMoL. I think he will impersonate Rand at the Black Tower, and logain will uncover him

[trakand_01]

It would certainly be something believable of Demandred, very egotistical, and would match Egwene's dream.

[Luckers]

Franklly, of them all I believe Graendal to be the most dangerous.

[trakand_01]

She certainly has the sharpest mind and the best attributes.

 

Unfortunately Cyndane is (from what we knew of Lanfear) driven by greed and ambition; she wants power and cares not who she uses or how she gets it. I think she would defect to the Light if she genuinely thought she would get power.

 

Moghedien is, i'm afraid, a spiteful coward. When all is said and done she is scared of Nynaeve and her 'kill Nynaeve' phase in my interpretation was a 'not if i see you first' method to save her own skin. That Nynaeve isnt dead is something Moggy has yet to discover.

 

Demandred may be astute and manipulative but I think he may become over-confident, and that will be his downfall. Halima / Osan'gar (whichever one she is i can't remember!) is I think too detached from the main group. I also dont think that Graendal trusts her and I wouldnt be surprised to see either Egwene or Graendal do for Halima. I havent read book 11 so i dont know what happens up to that point.

[Myndrunner]

I wonder which of the Forsaken will survive MoL.  Somehow, I think that Moghedien will find a way to survive.  Cyndanefear will probably go off like a powder keg.  I see a confrontation between Demandred and Moridin....but who knows. 

[trakand_01]

The biggest coward, or the most intelligent, will be the one which survives Tarmon Gaidon, because the rest (IMO) will be so confident as to try and take / kill Rand themselves, and ultimately be killed themselves. When Rand holds Callandor and the 'madness' takes him, i'm not sure many of them could stand up to him.

 

So you may be right, Moghedien may survive, she is certainly the biggest coward of them all and not stupid along with it, she's managed to hide well enough to earn her the name of 'The Spider', coming out when all is quiet and dark.

 

Personally though, I think Nynaeve will be waiting.

 

Or else Moghedien will finally kill Nynaeve and Lan will kill her in the act of avenging Moghedien's death.

 

I see Lan as (preferably) the Bruce Willis (Armageddon) of WoT, or the lifelong bachelor - Moiraine and Nynaeve, possibly even Myrelle, all dead.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Something tells me Semirhage will survive. I cant see anyone from the Light killing her. Cadsuane will get a lot out of her I think, with help from maybe Sorilea and possibly even Rand, but I seriously doubt she will die. The only way I think she will die is either in combat or by the Dark getting someone close enough to pop her off. *Cough* Taim

[aussie_ashaman123]

Moggi will survive, I dont think shes as much of a coward now she survived the cleansing. Shes more dangerous than ever before, she wont be afraid of much, and she still has the talents and abilities to strike from the shadows.

 

As for primo chosen, Ishy/Moridin for sure, the strongest and probably most loyal of the DO's top people. Im not even sure he went over to the shadow for more power, or immortality, or anything like that.

[Guest Dreadlord]

It definitely has to go to Ishamael/Moridin. He has done way too much for it to be anyone else, his actions as Ishamael were all aimed at big targets.

 

He engineered the downfall of Artur Hawkwing, the strongest Ta'veren we know of, and caused him to bring about the destruction of his empire, the largest in the history of the world. He created the Black Ajah, which has been so deeply hidden within the White Tower-the biggest symbol of the Light-that only recently has there been any progress towards their destruction. He changed the Seanchan version of the Dragon prophecies, making them say that Rand will kneel to the Crystal Throne instead of the other way round, which in the long run could very well have prevented Rand from doubling the size of his forces, channeller AND non-channeller.

 

And thats only to name a few. His actions are way too calculated and significant for anyone else to compete with.

[trakand_01]

I take it then that you dont hold with the body-swap theory? Because if you couple that theory with Rand 'dying and living again', and Egwene's dream of Logain stepping over Rand's body, there's not much chance of Moridin seeing the story out.

 

I think Moridin is over-confident. He's sure that being Nae'blis makes him invincable and is IMO as insane as they come.

 

I reckon Moghedien will survive the big battle, I think she'll hide, or she'll flee if / when Moridin is killed, but I dont think she'll see it out - I think RJ put too much time and effort into the Nynaeve / Moghedien thing for it to be all over and done with Moggy thinking she's drowned Nynaeve in Ebou Dar.

[Majsju]

I hope something will come out of Moggys comment after the Cleansing, that she thought she would never feel fear again.

 

I am very convinced Moridin will die at TG. Major disappointment if he did not even make it to TG, and no way the Big Bad survives the Big Epic Battle.

 

Semi should have the best chance at surviving, unless she is freed/escapes.

 

[trakand_01]

If RJ was here, and there was any chance of a spin-off novel in the future (which we all know there will not be, and in a way, thank god), I would love to see Semirhage escape and survive TG, but no-one knows how or where she is.

 

What a cliffhanger that would be.

[aussie_ashaman123]

im putting my money on moggi to survive. Shes a cockroach, a survivor

[Guest Dreadlord]

I will be so dissapointed if Rand doesn't kill Moridin that I will stop preaching about the series. What I would like though, is for Moridin to be absolutely wiping the floor with Rand and Padan Fain pops up out of nowhere, attacking Moridin shrieking "Hes mine! All mine!" and as Moridin smites Fain with the True Power Rand kills Moridin.

 

And yes, I think the bodyswap is a possibility-I came up with the same idea before the Dragonmount site was reconstructed-but as everything on here it is only a theory and not the only possibility.

[42Bonzo88]

    I don't really care who comes out as the Big Bad of the Chosen. I just hope we get more information on Demandred, Messana, and Semi. I don't know if I was asleep through my reads, but I can't believe how much information there is about these three forsaken, when I can't remember them much from the books. Especially, Demandred and Semi. Messana we got to know through Alvarin, but these other two have been invisible.

[trakand_01]

Intentionally so, I feel.

 

I dont know if it was RJ 'hedging his bets' so that he could make his mind up later what happened / what Demandred / Mesaana / Semirhage did, not cementing a strict personality into our heads, or whether it was intentional that we would know so little about them, that they would be much more dangerous - after all, what can be more dangerous than an enemy of whom you have no experience, no knowledge? Even if you know them well, know them to be the most malicious, intelligent, cold-blooded killer that there is, you can at least prepare to meet and match that, there will be few surprises.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Aaahhh, but we do know all three.

 

Granted, they've been the three most sneakily written bad guys, but they're there, we've seen all three, and we know more about them then we think we do.  That will become apparent when Mesaana and Demandred finally reveal themselves in "A Memory of Light."

[trakand_01]

I dont actually think that I (as an individual reader) know very much about Demandred at all. I seem to think he's not a big man, but apart from that I could not recall much to you.

 

Mesaana yes, I think we know a fair bit about her and Semirhage also. What puzzles me is how Mesaana will act in her 'evil deed' or whatever you want to call the ultimate Forsakenact. She's ... spiteful, I think is probably the correct word. She wasnt allowed to be a teacher, so she went to the dark to teach them all a lesson. Is that the right way 'round, or was it that she wasnt allowed to be a researcher, only a teacher, which she saw as lesser because she wasnt trusted to discover the stuff herself, only to tell other people about it?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Wanted to be a researcher. Wasn't judged worthy.  Was only allowed to teach the discoveries of others.

[trakand_01]

Which would also aid the argument that she's hiding as a Brown.

 

What have been Mesaana's (known) achievements since turning?

[Bob T Dwarf]

In the AoL, she unleashed a kind of Chinese style cultural revolution.  Packs of kids running around, destroying everything, and spreading chaos.

 

In this Age, her accomplishments would depend on who you think she really is.

 

One thing to keep in mind.  These three constitute what I'll call the Demandred Alliance.  They've been working together ( mostly to eliminate the others, but with other commonalities, as well ) since the AoL.

 

There is one flaming red arrow pointing to all of them that nobody seems to have spotted yet.

 

EDIT:

Both the manner in which the Tower is tearing itself apart, and Masema and his merry band of cutthroats fit Mesaana's MO.  It may be, that in this instance, Semirhage was really the one pulling Masema's strings.  Or, she may have just been helping Mesaana.

[Myndrunner]

Is Taim really Demandred?  It fits his frustration and Lews Thieren's pleas to kill him.  I wonder if he is all bent out of shape because he has Rand right in front of him but the Dark One commanded that the Lord of Chaos must live. 

 

I wonder if the Dark One has eyes for Rand in making him his Nablis?  It wouldn't exactly be ripping off George Lucas if Rand is made into a Darth Vader kind of guy, but it would make for an interesting conclusion....

 

*sigh* I think I am going to have to read the books again, but I think this time, I'm going to get the Audio books.  I need to read more about Masanna and Demandred. 

[Bob T Dwarf]

Very unlikely that Demandred is Taim.

 

Taim doesn't fit the Dark's operational profile.  ( and then there's Jordan's deliberately provocative and controversial denial than Demandred is posing as Taim, as well. )