Men and OP

[druidravi]

How did the Ashaman become so strong in OP so fast . It takes decades for the Aes Sedai to gain strength but the Ashaman become strong in just 1 book ?. They are formed in LOC but start facing Sammuel in the ACOS !! .

 

Even the super girls start learning in TEOTW and it is only by TFOH that they achieve strength .

 

It is not an  isolated case with just the Ashaman though . All those male channelers , false dragons  required more than one Aes Sedai to capture them and the AS suffered casualities even then  .

 

The  man had no one to teach them and had no experience fighting female channelers . The Reds on the other hand are AS whose lives are dedicated to capturing  male channelers and had plenty of training and battle experience with men .

 

Is this ridiculous leraning curve explained by just men are stronger in OP?

 

 

[safwd]

Well, the Ashaman learn faster then Aes Sedai because they are forced to learn faster. The Aes Sedai take their time teaching novices and accepted because they dont want to risk losing any of them. The Ashaman (Taim) dont care about that. They make them use the power for everything. If they burn out or blow themselves up then no biggie, they go get another one. So the Ashaman have a faster and much steeper learning curve, thus they increase in ability much faster (as long as they live long enough)

Remember, Egwene grew in strength very fast under Seacham care, because she was forced to learn fast.

It has also been stated that males are stronger in Fire and Earth which are the more offensive aspects of magic, thus they make better weapons.

 

But yes, i think that men were always stronger in the power then women, even in the age of legands. At least it seems to be written that way.

[Majsju]

The Asha'man are forcing, ie learning much faster than Aes Sedai. Which meaans they have a much higher number of people killed in training, or burned out.

 

As for strength, typically men are stronger, while women are better at weaving. Which balance things if it comes to a straight confrontation. When it comes to the false dragons, those that required plenty of Aes Sedai were not alone, they had armies with them. And an Aes sedai is just as vulnerable to an arrow in the chest as anyone else if she does not see it coming.

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

It is not an  isolated case with just the Ashaman though . All those male channelers , false dragons  required more than one Aes Sedai to capture them and the AS suffered casualities even then  .

 

 

By tradition a shielding weave on a false Dragon is always maintained by at least six A.S. (To prevent a male channeler from finding and destroying the "weak spots" in an individual weave as Rand does at Dumai Wells.

[Chel Vanin]

Also, remember that men grow in power in spurts whereas women gradually become stronger and stronger. It's quite possible that Elayne Egwene and Nynaeve haven't hit their max potential, while the asha'man are as powerful as they can be.

[key]

How did the Ashaman become so strong in OP so fast . It takes decades for the Aes Sedai to gain strength but the Ashaman become strong in just 1 book ?. They are formed in LOC but start facing Sammuel in the ACOS !! .

 

Even the super girls start learning in TEOTW and it is only by TFOH that they achieve strength .

 

As has been said, they are being forced. RJ points out that this makes them grow in strength faster, though is more dangerous.

Also, (as has been said as well) men grow in fits and bursts when they use the power extensively. The Aes Sedai who bonded Narishma pointed this out in Book 11, saying that he'd grown stronger significantly after the battle when Rand cleansed saidin.

 

Oh, and the timeline isn't the same for each book. The earlier books are over a much smaller timescale than the later ones. I can't give exact dates, though.

 

It is not an  isolated case with just the Ashaman though . All those male channelers , false dragons  required more than one Aes Sedai to capture them and the AS suffered casualities even then  .

 

The  man had no one to teach them and had no experience fighting female channelers . The Reds on the other hand are AS whose lives are dedicated to capturing  male channelers and had plenty of training and battle experience with men .

 

The false dragons are not all the male channelers, merely the strongest/the ones who can cope the best with the OP.

Oh, and why would the Aes Sedai have battle experience against men ? Apart from maybe a few False Dragons (which are very rare up until Taim/Logain in TEOTW) they mainly gentle men who have only just started to channel, or don't understand what's going on. It's very hard for them to be able to learn to channel at all, let alone learn battle weaves. Therefore, if they do find any that can fight with the One Power, it's unexpected. And they're going to take more casualties simply because they're trying to capture the man, who's trying to kill them.

 

There are stories about Cadsuane single handedly capturing False Dragons, so it's not that it can't be done. I expect that more are needed because they have to sleep sometimes, and there always have to be some Aes Sedai maintaining the shield.

[Guest leebarr]

In the black tower you have to do everything with the op. if you can not cook it with op you eat cold food. in white tower if novice does something with op without a teacher she gets more chapy tasks like scubing pots or raking paths

[maxonennis]

The male and female halves of the OP work differently. I remember Rand and one of the women main charactors talking about how chanling was different for men and women. They basicly concluded with the female half of the OP has to be pulled in and is friendly and calm; whiel the male half rushes into the chanler violently and has to wrestled down to keep control. I think this may have something to do with the men growing strong quicker and generaly being stronger than women.

[druidravi]

 

 

 

Oh, and why would the Aes Sedai have battle experience against men ? Apart from maybe a few False Dragons (which are very rare up until Taim/Logain in TEOTW) they mainly gentle men who have only just started to channel, or don't understand what's going on. It's very hard for them to be able to learn to channel at all, let alone learn battle weaves. Therefore, if they do find any that can fight with the One Power, it's unexpected. And they're going to take more casualties simply because they're trying to capture the man, who's trying to kill them.

 

There are stories about Cadsuane single handedly capturing False Dragons, so it's not that it can't be done. I expect that more are needed because they have to sleep sometimes, and there always have to be some Aes Sedai maintaining the shield.

 

I did forget about forcing as the reason  for the Ashaman's growth

 

  Reason I said battle experience or training is a female channeler cannot see weaves of a male and vice versa . Slicing weaves you cannot see requires some special training .  I am not sure though whether the Aes Sedai have the knowledge . The forsaken have shown the knowledge and Rand has learnt from Asmodean . Cadsuane might know from her terangreal .

[dyring]

Also, when it comes to male channelers before asha´man, every male channeler was a sparker, and I´v gotten the impression that sparkers are on average stronger then the can learn ones.