Who will be the boss?

[drovja]

About the rest though, you've convinced me that the Oaths perpetuate the fear and mistrust of Aes Sedai. I just think the whole change would take an insanely long time. More that my lifetime  ;D if I lived in Randland.

 

Good news is, these women (unless the world is broken again) have a long time to become accustomed to things.  They live 3 times longer than normal people as AS, and maybe twice that without the oaths.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I just think the whole change would take an insanely long time.

 

Well, I suppose that depends on your definition of "insanely long" ... but I definitely agree that the Aes Sedai can't just get rid of them cold turkey.  That would create even more distrust ("Oh, so why are they getting rid of the Oaths?  What are they going to do?").

 

Actually, the Aes Sedai need to dissapear.  I personally think that Egwene will be the last and greatest Amyrlin Seat.  She will slowly disband the Aes Sedai into the Kin over a couple hundred years.  And within a thousand years at the outside, there will be no more channelers ... in my opinion.

[Luckers]

Actually the interesting thing about current times is it does present a very exclusive situation that does allow for shucking off the oaths 'cold turkey'. Between the generic turmoil, the appearence of damane and Asha'men, the Forsaken, the dreadlords and Tarmon Gai'don, and if people were to stop to concider the implications of the Aes Sedai dropping the oaths, then the worst case scenario is 'ah well, we'll be dead a little sooner'. More likely is people simply not caring in the face of the others, or even understanding the removal in the face of those others.

 

The world is in a state of flux, and a major aspect of that flux is the appearence and pervasity of non-Aes Sedai channelers amongst the population.

 

Not that im saying they will do it, just that if they did, now is the time, and the action would not ruffle many feathers at all, and would cause for long run justifications.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I'm not sure I agree that it would "not ruffle many feathers at all", but the reconstruction aftermath of Tarmon Gai'don will present a unique political opportunity, both within and outside of the Tower.  If there is any time they could get away with it, that would be the time.  A young, powerful Amyrlin, who has just helped win Tarmon Gai'don.  Multiple new groups of unbound channelers in the public view, including one that has been in Randland all along.  That taint on the male half cleansed.  Yes, if it ever would work, immediately following Tarmon Gai'don would be the time.

[GrandpaG]

I'm getting confused.

 

It seems that channelling should be more widely accepted and feared less if the Aes Sedai shed the oaths and melt into the populus via the Kin.  With that and the male half being cleansed, shouldn't channelling flourish instead of dying out?

[RobertAlexWillis]

It seems that channelling should be more widely accepted and feared less if the Aes Sedai shed the oaths and melt into the populus via the Kin.  With that and the male half being cleansed, shouldn't channelling flourish instead of dying out?

 

I think it would, except that the Pattern will work it out of people in the Fourth Age.  That's just my opinion though.

[ApostleofJordan]

I keep hearing people mention that the One Power will die out. I haven't had any inkling of this. Why do people believe this? (sorry to be a little off-topic)

[Vambram]

Why do some people believe that? Wild speculation, I'm guessing. LOL. :D However, when the Wheel turns and spins the pattern to the next Age, and the Age of the Pattern after that, RJ has indicated that the world will move into a world of science & technology in which 99.9% of people will have forgotten how to access saidin and saidar. The One power will still be there in the future, but how to access and use it shall be almost completely and totally forgotton.

[Darth_Andrea]

It's been established by RJ that our age is the age before the age of legends. That being the case and seeing how ages come again, its possiable that our age is going to get a revival after TG happens. Look at the story of the Sword Rand took from Tier. Looked at from the right prospective it might turn into the Arthur Excalibur story. As Rand Pulled A Sword From A Stone That Named Him King. Odd logic I know but possiable.

 

 

Darth_Andrea

[Luckers]

Indeed, at some stage the One Power has to fade from human knowledge, because in our Age we know nothing of it.

 

However, i believe the immediacy of some peoples suggestions about the time it will take for the ability to fade to be overstated. There are four ages between where the books are and our age, and given the resurgence of male channelers, and the high likelyhood of channelers breeding once more (as they now have prospective mates, as indeed the relative interactions between Aes Sedai and Asha'men have shown) suggests to me that it will take some conciderable time before we see the disapearence.

 

My personal guess is that towards the end of the sixth age the decline will get to the stage of channelers not being able to maintain a functional authority. During the seventh age it will disapear entirely.

 

And thats excluding the possibility of a total restart of the wheel, in which case all bets are off. But in any case the current predictions of the decline result in large part because of the Aes Sedai fall off, which results more from the oaths, their lax recruitment process, the heightened fear of Aes Sedai and the general decrease in population. I'm not saying there hasn't been a decline--RJ has stated that its gone from 3% to 1% of the population--but that resulted from channelers being pulled from the gene pool--in both Seanchan and Shara he has stated that there is a higher population of channelers. Now, not only are channelers coming back into the gene pool, but prospectively the population will increase sans the Dark One, and with seanchan immegrants, and male and female channelers are finally interbreeding again.

[Gentled Ben]

I think Robert has the right of it. Moreover, the Oaths a detrimental to the Aes Sedai, firstly because as a defining aspect on what makes then Aes Sedai it stops them from recalling that it is the individual that brings respect to the title, not the other way round. And secondly because it presents them with the position that that which isn't forbidden, is allowed, which is why Aes Sedai are, by and large, liars; irrespective if they do so by telling the truth.

 

As far as external judgement goes, the oaths only serve the purpose of drawing attention to the Aes Sedai; it lends the perception that without the oaths the Aes Sedai would be lying, murdering weapon-mongers. Moreover, it draws attention to everything they say--when you are constantly looking for the deception in someones words it is hard to respect them, much less trust them.

 

Wow, that's an excellent post, Luckers! I think you've neatly summed up the problem with the oaths. I had not considered that the oaths actually encourage them to lie, but I think you're right. Thanks for the insight.

[The Lost One]

It wasn't as hard to maintain order when most of the members used the Power very little.

 

Maybe I am confused, or not remembering this correctly, but I got a different impression.  I know they were trying to keep themselves hidden from Aes Sedai, but I do remember when Elayne and Nyn first went into where they lived, they felt several women channeling.  And, I do believe several of the women had honed some of their abilities - I can't remember their names, but one for healing and another for sheilding.  I do believe that they still wanted to learn, so they did channel quite frequently, they just kept it hidden.

 

This being said, look how well the Kin did in maintaining order and structure.  Look how well the women that wore the red belt were respected in their community.  So, I do believe it is possible for Aes Sedai to operate and be well respected without the oaths.  I think the Kin did a very good job of setting that up and will be a perfect retirement for Aes Sedai who retire after being released from the oaths.  It will just take some time for the new retirees to get used to things, but after the intial Aes Sedai get used to the structure, the rest will fall in.  Again, it will just take some time.