Path of Daggers - Can Anyone Explain the Egwene Chapters??

[WoTwasThat]

Alright, I’m slogging through POD and I’m reading Chapters 15-19 and I am confuzzled. I feel like I must have missed something earlier.

 

In Chapter 15, Eg learns that Byrne wants to see her…

 

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Firmly, Egwene stifled a rising hope. There had been too many disappointments, and whatever had brought Bryne in the middle of the night was much more likely to be a potential disaster than what she wished for. How far yet to the border with Andor?

Byrne then tells her about Pelivar’s army pushing to stop them at the Andor border. 
 

Quote

Egwene kept her face smooth, suppressing her relief. What she had been hoping for, waiting for; what she had begun to fear might never come.

So… she was planning to be confronted by an army? Was this explained earlier somewhere?

 

She tells him to set a meeting with Pelivar, and to keep it a secret from the Hall as long as possible. He says he will try, but doubts it’ll remain secret long. And Egwene thinks…

 

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As simple as that. The first step down a road that would see her on the Amyrlin Seat in Tar Valon, or else deliver her firmly into the grasp of the Hall, with nothing left to decide except whether it was Romanda or Lelaine who told her what to do. Somehow, such a pivotal moment should have been accompanied by fanfares of trumpets, or at the least, thunder in the sky. It was always that way in stories.

 

Wut? How is setting a meeting and keeping it secret the “first step”? To what?

Bryce leaves, and Egwene thinks to herself…

 

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Tonight, she had had to manipulate him, and she thought he knew it. He was very observant for a man. But too much was at stake to trust him more, until he made an open declaration.”

Howwww… did she manipulate him? What does any of this mean?

 

But Egwene isn’t done. She orders Beonin, Anaiya, and Myrelle and their five warders to ride north. Even though Byrne is already sending a rider to arrange a meeting. And then…

 

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Come dawn, Sheriam and Carlinya, Morvrin and Nisao would all know what to say over breakfast. Seeds had to be planted, seeds that could not have been placed earlier for fear of them sprouting too soon, but now they had all too little time to grow.

 

Again. Wut? What am I missing here?

 

Chapter 16, Egwene convenes the hall for all of one minute to tell them…

 

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“I have decided to stop here for two days, perhaps three." That brought heads up and sparked interest. She hoped Siuan was in the listening crowd. She did try to hold to the Oaths. "The horses need rest, too, and many of the wagons badly need repairs. The Keeper will see to the necessary arrangements." It truly was begun, now.

What was truly begun now?

 

Romanda barges into Egwene’s tent and accuses her of keeping secrets about the army. Egwene thinks…

 

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Egwene stood slowly, smoothing her skirt. She had been waiting for this, but she still needed to be careful. The game was far from played out, and everything could still turn against her in a flash. She had to pretend innocence, until she could afford to stop pretending.

Lelaine comes in after and says she knows about the secret, too. 
 

Siuan talks to Egwene after and asks how things went with Romanda and Lelaine…

 

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“About as we expected." Egwene smiled with a wonder that touched her voice, too. "Siuan, they couldn’t have handed me the Hall better if I had told them what to do.”

Still so confused.

 

Alright, so Chapter 17. She meets with the nobles. And she’s happy because she’s acting with authority and being all Amyrlin and stuff and tells them they’re gonna wait on the border for a month. And she doesn’t let Romanda or Lelaine talk. Ok. 
 

Chapter 18. More talking. Not really seeing much that matters.

 

Chapter 19. Ok so now is the big payoff. Supposedly. Egwene call the Hall again. And she asks for a declaration of war. I’m not saying the declaration wasn’t important, but I’m not sure why any of the other stuff she did in the preceding chapters was a necessary predicate for that? Because apparently Pelivar’s army shows that the world “doubts” the resolve of the Salidar faction?

 

I dunno. This was a very confusing few chapters. Any explanation appreciated.  

[Loose Theremin]

Sigh, that was an excruciatingly dull section wasn't it. It seems to me if I remember it right that the upshot of all of it was that Egwene was trying to maneuver the Salidar Hall into granting her the exclusive right to negotiate with monarchs and rulers. Which somehow morphed into her having the right to unilaterally declare war on the White Tower. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Andra]

So, a part of it is showing the assembled nobles that one of the world's "great captains" backs Egwene and her claim to the Amyrlin Seat.  And that she intended to act on that claim without stepping foot on Andoran soil.

Pelivar and Bryne were both needed to get those nobles to assemble where they did.

 

The bigger part was to manipulate the Hall to make a formal declaration of war - putting Egwene firmly and legally in command of the Salidar Aes Sedai.  Without them seeing it coming or recognizing the manipulation.

 

A much smaller part (so far as any of them knew at the time) was to start recruiting new Novices, building up the rebel side in sheer numbers beyond anything the Tower could imagine.

[Figs and Mice]

All sort of makes sense. But an excruciatingly boring use of 81 pages 🙄

[wotfan4472]

That is politics for you. It is boring if it works right.

 

If it does not, then it gets VERY messy very quickly.

 

Those pages also showed a totally different boon: one of the two Forsaken manipulating both sides of the White Tower, specifically Aran'gar working the Salidar Aes Sedai, did not catch what Egwene was doing either.

 

It was the Dark One that specially ordered Egwene to be removed from the board, once he saw what she was doing.

[WoTwasThat]

I guess at the end of the day these five chapters boil down to: Egwene and Suian cooked up a genius plan to use a confrontation with another army at a border in order to convince the Hall to declare war on Elaida because… being confronted by an army would show the Sitters that nations won’t respect them unless they declare war.

 

Ok, I guess. That just seems very, very contrived. And then the plan magically works. Nobody except one Sitter has any idea how the Law of War operates. And then the entire Hall is like “welp, good one Eg… guess you got us. And even though we elected you to be a puppet now we’re totally gonna go along with a law none of us had heard of until five minutes ago.”

 

And unless I missed it, it still hasn’t been explained why Eg sent instructions to different Aes Sedai the night before meeting the nobles. But I dunno maybe the big “payoff” for that is somewhere in Crossroads of Twilight lol. 

Edited September 29 by WoTwasThat

[Loose Theremin]

4 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

I guess at the end of the day these five chapters boil down to: Egwene and Suian cooked up a genius plan to use a confrontation with another army at a border in order to convince the Hall to declare war on Elaida because… being confronted by an army would show the Sitters that nations won’t respect them unless they declare war.

 

Ok, I guess. That just seems very, very contrived. And then the plan magically works. Nobody except one Sitter has any idea how the Law of War operates. And then the entire Hall is like “welp, good one Eg… guess you got us. And even though we elected you to be a puppet now we’re totally gonna go along with a law none of us had heard of until five minutes ago.”

 

And unless I missed it, it still hasn’t been explained why Eg sent instructions to different Aes Sedai the night before meeting the nobles. But I dunno maybe the big “payoff” for that is somewhere in Crossroads of Twilight lol. 

 

Yes there are people here bending over backwards to defend everything that Robert Jordan wrote as though it all makes perfect sense. But as you say some of it is contrived. For example I always thought that Siuan and Moiraine having the certainty of stilling hanging over their heads if the Hall found out they had recently found the Dragon Reborn and were helping him while keeping it a secret was contrived. Considering that the Dragon Reborn had to be able to fight the Dark One and that he needed to be protected from the Red and Black Ajah and Dark Friends what else were they expected to do ?

 

Or Robert Jordan could simply have dropped that contrived drama and had them tell the Hall that they had found the Dragon Reborn and let the chips fall where they may. It's not as if Rand wasn't in danger anyway secret or not. And once Rand proclaimed himself as the Dragon Siuan planned to tell the Hall anyway !

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

What is you guys' problem? Why do you repeatedly present your opinions as fact and claim that anyone that disagrees with you as saying that Jordan is the perfect writer? 

 

The opinions on this forum are varied. There are many people that love the first three books, there are many people that hated them and very nearly did not continue reading (often only doing so as the books were on the shelves of a family member). There are those that hate the slog, there are those that find those the best books in the series. There are those that disown the Sanderson books, there are those that think his input lead to a great improvement.  There are those that think the Forsaken are two-dimensional and unbelievable and those that absolutely love the Chosen. I could go on and on. There is even one person that claims that Faile and Perrin's relationship is the most realistic they have ever seen in literature. Takes all sorts.

 

Many of us have grown up with the books and the characters have been our constant companions throughout our lives. The fact that you think that you are the sole arbiters of the one true truth about the Wheel of Time is hilarious. 

[WoTwasThat]

4 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Many of us have grown up with the books and the characters have been our constant companions throughout our lives. The fact that you think that you are the sole arbiters of the one true truth about the Wheel of Time is hilarious. 

Dude, I’m in the middle of a re-read and I was trying to figure out if I was missing something in these chapters. I asked for input, I reached a conclusion, if you don’t like it… ok? You’re welcome to your opinion. 

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

Thank you. And you are more than welcome to your opinions, and I apologise if I am misreading your posts, but very often you appear to be stating your opinion as fact. 

 

That the books you don't like as much are objectively bad, rather than that being your opinion. That characters you don't like are awful and should have been scrapped. 

 

Like I hate the end. It amazes me that so many people love it, or parts of it, but I don't think that I am right and they are wrong in some objective way. Wot is such a complicated story that we all take different things out of it, different takes on characters, different themes and different priority to those themes. 

 

As I say I apologise if this is not how you mean it, but you are coming on a little strong. 

[Loose Theremin]

11 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

What is you guys' problem? Why do you repeatedly present your opinions as fact and claim that anyone that disagrees with you as saying that Jordan is the perfect writer? 

 

The opinions on this forum are varied. There are many people that love the first three books, there are many people that hated them and very nearly did not continue reading (often only doing so as the books were on the shelves of a family member). There are those that hate the slog, there are those that find those the best books in the series. There are those that disown the Sanderson books, there are those that think his input lead to a great improvement.  There are those that think the Forsaken are two-dimensional and unbelievable and those that absolutely love the Chosen. I could go on and on. There is even one person that claims that Faile and Perrin's relationship is the most realistic they have ever seen in literature. Takes all sorts.

 

Many of us have grown up with the books and the characters have been our constant companions throughout our lives. The fact that you think that you are the sole arbiters of the one true truth about the Wheel of Time is hilarious. 

 

HHMB what is your problem !?  You acknowledge that people here express differing opinions and then you get upset when they do !  

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

On 10/1/2025 at 2:23 AM, Loose Theremin said:

 

HHMB what is your problem !?  You acknowledge that people here express differing opinions and then you get upset when they do !  

Discussing things is not the same as throwing out pronouncements of opinion. 

 

You are accusing of people of bending over backwards to defend Jordan rather than accepting they have different opinions. 

 

You appear to be behaving exactly like my ex where she would constantly assume that everyone actually agreed with her and if they pretended differently they were doing it for ulterior motives, because obviously she was always right, by definition. 

 

You do see how accusing of people of bending over backwards to stop themselves from seeing your truth is not discussing different opinions about something? 

[WoTwasThat]

2 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Discussing things is not the same as throwing out pronouncements of opinion. 

It kind of is, though. Or at least it is one form of acceptable discourse. You’re just not being very tolerant of other people’s opinions. If you don’t like those opinions, either engage and explain why you disagree, or don’t. You’re basically complaining that people are voicing their opinions too strongly. Not a great look. These aren’t personal attacks against you, but you seem to be interpreting them that way.

[Loose Theremin]

2 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Discussing things is not the same as throwing out pronouncements of opinion. 

 

You are accusing of people of bending over backwards to defend Jordan rather than accepting they have different opinions. 

 

You appear to be behaving exactly like my ex where she would constantly assume that everyone actually agreed with her and if they pretended differently they were doing it for ulterior motives, because obviously she was always right, by definition. 

 

You do see how accusing of people of bending over backwards to stop themselves from seeing your truth is not discussing different opinions about something? 

 

Good grief ! Step back and look at yourself. You are the one who is being argumentative and belligerent.

[dwn]

To (perhaps) break down the politcal moves more clearly:

 

1. Gareth Bryne gives Egwene advance notice about the army in their path
2. Egwene sends her minions to start fanning flames among the Andorans and the SAS
3. Egwene waits for Romanda and Lelaine to set up the meeting so it looks (to them) like it was their idea
4. The Andorans (partially due to the prompting) don't take the SAS leadership seriously
5. Egwene makes the deal to diffuse the situation (by Travelling before they reach Andor)
6. The Hall, annoyed that they weren't take seriously, not realising Egwene set the whole thing up, and unclear on the legal specifics, vote to give Egwene more power

(FWIW I liked this arc.)

[JyP]

1 hour ago, dwn said:

1. Gareth Bryne gives Egwene advance notice about the army in their path

And also subtly indicates that he would follow Egwene, not the Hall... 

 

Which is caused by the Hall being out of depth -> which is caused by mostly having young Sitters, as the Ajah Heads kept a leash on both Halls to edge their bets, and the various Black Ajah / Forsaken / Darkfriends meddlings.

But all this would be revealed afterwards, IIRC. I like this kind of obfuscation, having many different people with all kinds of secret motives - reminds me a bit of Amber.

[WoTwasThat]

Finished POD. I think I unfairly criticized this book overall. Yes, it starts super slow. The Perrin and Egwene and Elayne chapters are tedious. But I had forgotten there are quite a few Rand chapters in the latter half which are pretty darned good! His campaign against the Seanchan was refreshingly “real” in the chaos, as is the attempted coup in Cairhien which I had forgotten all about. RJ is doing a good job setting up events with the Black Tower and the taint on Saidin, etc. The Elaida stuff is also fun, as is the BA hunt in the WT. And WT sisters swearing to Rand. About half the chapters in this book are pretty great.

 

Now it’s time for Winter’s Heart. I know I’m in for a slog until toward the end. I hope it isn’t as sloggy as I remember. 

[Loose Theremin]

9 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

Finished POD. I think I unfairly criticized this book overall. Yes, it starts super slow. The Perrin and Egwene and Elayne chapters are tedious. But I had forgotten there are quite a few Rand chapters in the latter half which are pretty darned good! His campaign against the Seanchan was refreshingly “real” in the chaos, as is the attempted coup in Cairhien which I had forgotten all about. RJ is doing a good job setting up events with the Black Tower and the taint on Saidin, etc. The Elaida stuff is also fun, as is the BA hunt in the WT. And WT sisters swearing to Rand. About half the chapters in this book are pretty great.

 

Now it’s time for Winter’s Heart. I know I’m in for a slog until toward the end. I hope it isn’t as sloggy as I remember. 

 

Yes the side-plot involving Seaine and Pevara hunting for the Black Ajah in the White Tower was well done and a nice little addition.