Who is Mesaana?

[Gauntlet]

Interesting.  I'd like it except for one thing -

 

At the Kaffe Klatsch where Cyndane reveals that Rand has the access keys and will use them to cleanse saidin there's almost a fight because Demandred is supposed to be keeping an eye on Rand, and some of the others feel he's dropped the ball because he didn't know about the keys.  They're all displeased with him, some just take it farther than others.

 

A Warder with an AS out in the middle of nowhere with Perrin is not going to be in a position to monitor Rand in the slightest.  Demandred never would have allowed that to happen since he's tasked with monitoring and influencing Rand.

 

Likewise, an AS out in the middle of nowhere isn't in much of a position to maintain control of the Tower, which is Mesaana's job.

 

I wouldn't doubt that one or both of them is Dark, though.

On the other hand, being out in the middle of nowhere does not present too much of a problem when one can Travel.  I admit the Warder=Demandred thing is a bit of a stretch, but the pattern of dress for Masuri is just too close to dismiss.

[Beren]

Guess who shows up with the rebels in CoS?

 

 

CoS Ch.35

A brown is mentioned (almost certainly Masuri). A man named Rovair (same name as Masuri's warder and he has a similar description) is mentioned who always scowls. (side note that Demandred never smiles) The encyclopedia says it is a mistake. I think it is a hint. One of those little things RJ likes to throw in there.

 

 

This would certainly fit with causing chaos.

 

 

Also:

 

 

TFoH,Prologue - Lanfear says that she suspects that either Moghedien or Demandred is trying to control Rand. (note that Masuri is part of the Salidar group sent to talk to Rand - Rovair would have easy access to the city and a way to control Rand)

 

PoD Ch.9

Masuri tells Perrin that she thinks Masema can be controlled.

 

CoT Ch.5

Selande reports that Masuri and Rovair have been meeting with Masema

[Gauntlet]

Hopefully we'll find out more in TGS!

[Beren]

Hopefully we'll find out more in TGS!

RAFO!  ;D

[Alghar Khan]

RAFO!  ;D

You know you'll get lynched if you say that, and we still don't find out anything useful about Mesaana, right? :P

[Beren]

I can't say anything more or the mods will lynch me! I could PM about whether we do or don't. You wouldn't believe how many PMs you get when you have an early copy!

[Alghar Khan]

I'd rather wait until the morning, but thanks for the offer.  ;)

[Beren]

I'd rather wait until the morning, but thanks for the offer.  ;)

 

I admire your resolve to wait for the book. I held out until the 23rd before peeking in at the spoiler thread.

[Gauntlet]

Guess who shows up with the rebels in CoS?

 

 

CoS Ch.35

A brown is mentioned (almost certainly Masuri). A man named Rovair (same name as Masuri's warder and he has a similar description) is mentioned who always scowls. (side note that Demandred never smiles) The encyclopedia says it is a mistake. I think it is a hint. One of those little things RJ likes to throw in there.

 

 

This would certainly fit with causing chaos.

 

 

Also:

 

 

TFoH,Prologue - Lanfear says that she suspects that either Moghedien or Demandred is trying to control Rand. (note that Masuri is part of the Salidar group sent to talk to Rand - Rovair would have easy access to the city and a way to control Rand)

 

PoD Ch.9

Masuri tells Perrin that she thinks Masema can be controlled.

 

CoT Ch.5

Selande reports that Masuri and Rovair have been meeting with Masema

The more I think about it, the less likely I think it is that Rovair is Demandred.  He appeared on-screen too early for one.

 

I'm sticking by Masuri=Mesaana though!

[Eht Slat Meit]

It seems to me that the three new names are supposed to set the stage for the final clues or are a horrible and blatant red herring.

 

Personally, I'm speculating that Mesaana is both Nalasia Merhan AND Laras.

 

The reason I say 'red herring' is because of the Nalasia option. The full name is an anagram of both MESAANA (LIRAHN?) and SAINE (truename)(AM H?) LARAS

I say blatant because it's such a horribly obvious clue once you see the anagrams (which is a very old and unsubtle form of puzzle) and put it in context of her cloaking and illusions. It's either a giveaway answer or a ridiculous plot herring by Jordan to distract from more speculated candidates. I suspect the former since Memory of Light was intended to distribute in one piece, not three, and the "clues" are split from the rest of the MoL story.

 

It does make sense after a fashion. Laras is already heavily suspected as her alternate identity, and her position makes gives her a very effective place to monitor -every- single Sister before raising to the Ajahs. A second alter-ego would allow her to monitor at the higher levels, and since Nalasia is a sister with "minimal power" her standing is radically reduced in the hierarchy of the Tower, allowing her to be present and escape notice at the same time, and effective management skills allow her to work back and forth between the two roles.

 

Giveaway or red herring? Still deciding, but leaning to the former.

 

 

[Impressive Bosom]

Personally, I'm speculating that Mesaana is both Nalasia Merhan AND Laras.

 

The reason I say 'red herring' is because of the Nalasia option. The full name is an anagram of both MESAANA (LIRAHN?) and SAINE (truename)(AM H?) LARAS

I say blatant because it's such a horribly obvious clue once you see the anagrams (which is a very old and unsubtle form of puzzle) and put it in context of her cloaking and illusions.

 

I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I found this incredibly confusing. I know what an anagram is... but I can't seem to make sense of what I'm reading above. A little help?

[Impressive Bosom]

Not to through a wrench in the discussion, but I think I've found not only Mesaana but possibly Demandred as well:

 

Masuri and Rovair, her Warder

 

1. Similar Dress

Mesaana has been described in three outfits to us so far:

 

LoC, Prologue

"Mesaana's russet silk dress rustled..."

 

PoD Ch 25

"Flickers of bronze silk with a thin border of intricately embroidered black scrollwork showed through."

 

CoT, Ch 21

"...a blue-eyed woman of flesh and blood, garbed in bronze-embroidered green."

 

Masuri has also been described in three similar ways:

 

PoD, Ch 8

"...a slender woman stirring a large stew kettle straightened, knuckling her back as she watched Perrin and the others pass.  A woman in a green silk riding dress."

 

CoT, Ch 6

"Masuri was there, a slim woman in a bronze-colored cloak..."

 

CoT, Ch 7

"Masuri, on the other hand, waited beside her mare with an appearance of patience, spoiled only by smoothing the russet skirts of her silk riding dress..."

 

So we have a few things in common here: Russet silk, a green dress, and a penchant for the color bronze.

 

2. Both tap their lips thoughtfully

Mesaana:

ACoS, Prologue

"A finger of shadow tapped silver lips thoughtfully."

 

Masuri:

CoT, Ch 7

"Masuri had stopped waving her hands about and was staring at the footprints, tapping a finger against her lips thoughtfully."

 

3. Both are mentioned in conjunction with Dumai's Wells

Mesaana:

ACoS, Ch 32

"Even if the Asha'man failed to trumpet their crushing of Toveine's expedition--and she was sure they would crush it, after waht Mesaana had told her of events of Dumai's Wells..."

 

Masuri is one of the nine Salidar Aes Sedai who accompanied Perrin:

LoC, Ch 54

"Except for a Brown named Masuri, the Aes Sedai ignored the Wise Ones entirely at firs, but after Masuri had been rebuffed at least two dozen times over the next few days..."

 

4. Masuri seems to know an extraordinary amount about darkhounds(CoT, Ch 7), and lectures much like a professor would.  Mesaana was also denied a teaching in the AoL(BWB).  Elyas seems surprised that she's run across 7 packs(CoT, Ch 8).

 

5. Masema

A. Masuri and Rovair have visited Masema multiple times(CoT, Ch 5).  This in itself is not proof of much though.  Compare it to the descriptions of Mesaana's activities though:  

"mobs of children destroyed anything that reflected badly on the Dark one and killed people who opposed them."

"Bands of brigands during the Breaking were known as Mesaana's Children because they destroyed everything and anything in their path, like Mesaana had taught the children in her territories to do."(quote: crash p. 1 of this topic)

Masema's rabble have been acting in a very similar manner.  

 

B. Add to this the fact that Masema had been dealing with the Seanchan, who Semirhage was with, and you have two legs of the tripod identified.  It stands to reason that Demandred is Rovair, as he seems to be missing from Masuri's side just before Rand began using the Cooedan Kal:

CoT, Ch 7

"Her Warder was nowhere to be seen, and that had to be the Wise Ones' doing.  Rovair usually stuck to her like a burr."

 

So, what does everyone think?

 

I'm not yet sold that think Rovair is Demandred, though it is certainly possible I suppose - but you've absolutely sold me on Masuri... tremendous research :)

 

And kudos for sticking to those kind of specific examples from the books rather than going for the blatantly obvious (like how much Mesaana and Masuri sound alike). Leave that kind of stuff to the less subtle among us, like me.

[Eht Slat Meit]

I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I found this incredibly confusing. I know what an anagram is... but I can't seem to make sense of what I'm reading above. A little help?

 

My apologies, I probably should have simply left out the extra letters in each name, because while I'm sure they're an anagram of something, I don't know what.

 

As 'Eht Slat Meit' is an anagram of 'The Last Time', 'Nasalia Merhan' is an anagram of 'Mesaana' or, alternatively, 'Saine Laras'. In both cases, I'm not sure what the extra letters refer to, if anything, but I'm sure the use of this anagrammed name is not an accident by the author.

 

As I recall, Saine Tamarind is Mesaana's truename.

 

Should I explain more? I know my first post was more complex than need be for something introducing a relatively new idea.

[Impressive Bosom]

I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I found this incredibly confusing. I know what an anagram is... but I can't seem to make sense of what I'm reading above. A little help?

 

My apologies, I probably should have simply left out the extra letters in each name, because while I'm sure they're an anagram of something, I don't know what.

 

As 'Eht Slat Meit' is an anagram of 'The Last Time', 'Nasalia Merhan' is an anagram of 'Mesaana' or, alternatively, 'Saine Laras'. In both cases, I'm not sure what the extra letters refer to, if anything, but I'm sure the use of this anagrammed name is not an accident by the author.

 

As I recall, Saine Tamarind is Mesaana's truename.

 

Should I explain more? I know my first post was more complex than need be for something introducing a relatively new idea.

 

Okay, that's what was throwing me off. Anagrams, as far as I know, tend to use all of the letters - random extra letters kind of throw off the whole notion and the assumption that they must mean something simply by virtue of being there is kind of like saying global temperatures rising are proof of global warming AND global temperatures falling are ALSO proof of global warming. Its using conflicting data to support a presupposed theory.

 

I could say that 'Christmas' is a deliberate amagram of 'thrist', even though I don't use all the letters and I have to use one twice (as you did with 'Saine LaraS', and then suggest some additional mysterious significance for the extra letters C, M, A and the extra S... but that doesn't make it the case. Much more likely the words/names simply have some of the same letters and that's that.

 

At any rate, thank you for clearing it up for me what you were trying to say. I appreciate the effort that has gone into unraveling this mystery on all fronts, but I don't believe that the semi-anagram is either clue or red herring... just a coincidence. I've been convinced on Masuri, but I have to admit that Laras is a very, very intriguing second possibility even without the wordplay.

[Impressive Bosom]

I think you are correct as well, Vince. With men there is no way for them to tell another's strength, just to make a relative guess by how much of the power they hold and whether or not there is a sense of strain. Women can tell the exact potential of other women, even to the point of with novices and accepted who have not reached their full strength yet.

 

A point here that occurred to me... being able to tell the potential strength in the One Power another person has isn't anything active, like using a weave to determine it. Its more like a sensitivity, a cultivated awareness that over time becomes second nature.

 

Now follow me on this - the Aes Sedai in the White Tower have been using relative strength in the OP as a means of determining social hiearchy for literal centuries and many of the women themselves have actually been doing it for centuries, even though its considered an inappropriate topic to discuss openly. As such, all have become intrinsically aware of how great other women's potential may be simply by second nature, in most cases without thinking about it.

 

One the other hand, the idea of men who can channel even associating with one another has been almost unheard of for centuries if not longer... most men who can channel die of madness or sickness without even meeting another male channeller, so there is no way that sensitivity or awareness could possibly have developed. Which is why they default to a cruder, more primative (and if I may say so more masculine) manner of determining it... kind of like sneaking peeks at one another in the shower, you know - 'just to see'.  :-\

 

Anyway, that's my take on it. I know the nature of Saidin and Saidar are different, as is the means of embracing them, but I think the awareness of the potential of another is something cultivated over time rather than anything instinctive, explaining the differences in the books.

[Eht Slat Meit]

I could say that 'Christmas' is a deliberate amagram of 'thrist', even though I don't use all the letters and I have to use one twice (as you did with 'Saine LaraS', and then suggest some additional mysterious significance for the extra letters C, M, A and the extra S... but that doesn't make it the case. Much more likely the words/names simply have some of the same letters and that's that.

 

At any rate, thank you for clearing it up for me what you were trying to say. I appreciate the effort that has gone into unraveling this mystery on all fronts, but I don't believe that the semi-anagram is either clue or red herring... just a coincidence. I've been convinced on Masuri, but I have to admit that Laras is a very, very intriguing second possibility even without the wordplay.

 

While I'm skeptical about the global warming comparison, you have a point about the letters. I missed that extra S, and it turns out after fact-checking, I got Saine's last name wrong too. In fact, after looking at it some more, I see:

 

NALASIA MERHAN

 

M AL SAINE HARAN (M, "Hand of Saine", Old Tongue)

 

I'm sure I have the letters right this time. (crosses fingers)

[Impressive Bosom]

I could say that 'Christmas' is a deliberate amagram of 'thrist', even though I don't use all the letters and I have to use one twice (as you did with 'Saine LaraS', and then suggest some additional mysterious significance for the extra letters C, M, A and the extra S... but that doesn't make it the case. Much more likely the words/names simply have some of the same letters and that's that.

 

At any rate, thank you for clearing it up for me what you were trying to say. I appreciate the effort that has gone into unraveling this mystery on all fronts, but I don't believe that the semi-anagram is either clue or red herring... just a coincidence. I've been convinced on Masuri, but I have to admit that Laras is a very, very intriguing second possibility even without the wordplay.

 

While I'm skeptical about the global warming comparison, you have a point about the letters. I missed that extra S, and it turns out after fact-checking, I got Saine's last name wrong too. In fact, after looking at it some more, I see:

 

NALASIA MERHAN

 

M AL SAINE HARAN (M, "Hand of Saine", Old Tongue)

 

I'm sure I have the letters right this time. (crosses fingers)

 

I agree. One should be skeptical about anything involving global warming.

 

My earlier concerns about inexact anagrams linger, but I like what you've done/discovered there... you may be on to something after all.