Approaching the end of my reread…currently on TOM

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

Admittedly I’m not to the end yet, but it strikes me as I reread that so many fans are opposed to BS and his writing of the final 3 books. As I said, I haven’t completed my first reread yet, but I have to say, even if fans hate me for it, I think BS is doing a fine job with the task he’s given. What causes the opposition within so many fans about BS and his writing/conclusion to the series?

[Asthereal]

6 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Admittedly I’m not to the end yet, but it strikes me as I reread that so many fans are opposed to BS and his writing of the final 3 books. As I said, I haven’t completed my first reread yet, but I have to say, even if fans hate me for it, I think BS is doing a fine job with the task he’s given. What causes the opposition within so many fans about BS and his writing/conclusion to the series?

 

Sanderson is a very different writer from Jordan, with different strengths and weaknesses. I think the people who dislike Sandersons work are those who enjoyed the things Jordan was strong at and Sanderson wasn't. And there's nothing wrong with that. I do think it'd help the discussion, though, if we'd all recognize this and keep the discussion away from "Sanderson is terrible, childish, ..." when that's clearly not the case.

 

I think Sanderson did a better job than we had any right of expecting, especially because he's such a different writer, but also because the original plan and outline were for one large book of 2000+ pages, but halfway through writing the publisher started to push for turning it into three volumes. This forced Sanderson to move things around, in order to not have book 12 become another Crossroads of Twilight.

 

Yes, the author change shows. Clearly. Sanderson's work is paced about twice as fast as Jordan's, he doesn't always get the characters right (especially Mat) and some of the plot threads ended up sidelined or underplayed. But the main story lines get satisfying endings, and I'm extremely happy we got these books. Just look at how cynical the Martin fanbase is getting. I infinitely prefer this over an unfinished series that because of the fact it's unfinished becomes unappealing to reread.

[DojoToad]

As @Asthereal said, Brandon is a very different writer from Jordan.  I also think Brandon did a fantastic job considering how much he had to change his own style to mimic Jordan as best he could.  I will be forever grateful to Brandon for taking on the Herculean task.  He did well more than 'good enough' in my opinion.

[Aan-Alone]

On 1/31/2024 at 8:59 PM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Admittedly I’m not to the end yet, but it strikes me as I reread that so many fans are opposed to BS and his writing of the final 3 books. As I said, I haven’t completed my first reread yet, but I have to say, even if fans hate me for it, I think BS is doing a fine job with the task he’s given. What causes the opposition within so many fans about BS and his writing/conclusion to the series?

I thought BS did a fine job too and I still think this...but that wasn't always the case for me.

 

When I first read tGS, I was of a much different opinion. I can't point to specifics, other than Matrim, but everything felt...off. I wasn't able to get 'sucked in' to the story as I did with previous books in the series. At least no where near as easily.

 

By 'sucked in', I mean that thing that happens between a reader and a story. The point where the world ceases to exist, where the reader ceases to exist except as a consciousness, and there is only "The Story".

 

It took a,while for tGS to give me the kind of reading experience I had gotten used to with RJ's prose. That reading experience, or change in or to, led to a lot of negativity about the last 3 books and BS.

 

For ToM and AMoL, my reading experience improved, the 'disconnects' in my reading experience lessened, as well my negativity towards BS and his version of RJ's prose. I finished AMoL in my reading 'happy place'. In other words I was satisfied with WoT. The ending and conclusion of the series [as much as things can end for the WoT 😂] worked for me. It wasn't perfect, but it was satisfying. It was enough.

 

Afterwards, I took a really long break from WoT. Over a decade. When I finally returned, I didn't notice the change in author when I got to the final 3. And I was looking too, at the cost of my reading experience. I quickly gave up and learned to 'just give in' again. Doing so allowed the end to work for me, but this time even more so.

 

Something else happened too. Somewhat nrelated to the BS final 3. The characters and parts of the series I had 'disliked', shall we say? Those parts of the series transformed into a form of comic relief and the characters were welcomed as if old friends returning from a long absence, flaws and all.

 

I don't hate on BS like many do here. However, I must confess that I've never read anything else written by BS tho. And don't figure I'll ever be inclined to do so. I'm curious as to why but not enough to really find out.

 

That's my BS story. What's yours?

[Asthereal]

8 minutes ago, Aan-Alone said:

I don't hate on BS like many do here. However, I must confess that I've never read anything else written by BS tho. And don't figure I'll ever be inclined to do so. I'm curious as to why but not enough to really find out.

Should you wish to change this, I recommend Warbreaker. It's a standalone, but it does happen in his connected universe, the "Cosmere". You don;t need to know any other stroies though. It's a really fun read, and you can get the e-book for free on his website if you sign up for his newsletter. Don't worry about that last bit. He sends like two a year, and they always contain a button to unsubscribe, should you wish to never get any again.

Sanderson's main contribution to epic fantasy is that connected universe, but if you don't care for that bit, just see him as the writer who writes epic fantasy that reads like a thriller. Simple, functional prose, a faster pace, and very little literary stuff like symbolism, thematic layers or poetic commentary. He deliberately focuses mainly on the story itself, and everything he does has to support that story. If you read mainly to relax after a busy day, he's definitely an author you want to check out. But if you read for a literary challenge, Sanderson isn't the author for you.

[WheelofJuke]

While Sanderson did a fair enough job wrapping up the series, he writes in a markedly perfunctory manner, especially in dealing with subjects of emotional depth, especially between two or more characters, something at which Jordan excelled. 

It felt to me like he was going by a checklist of plot points to tick off, without adding much in terms of emotional impact. 
 

Obviously I paint with broad strokes, and there are some notable exceptions (e.g., Egwene's ending), but Sanderson just doesn't punch at quite the same weight as RJ.  There's a quasi-mystical element to RJ's style that Sanderson simply couldn't reproduce nor find a suitable replacement. 

Edited February 12 by WheelofJuke

[Bugglesley]

24 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

While Sanderson did a fair enough job wrapping up the series, he writes in a markedly perfunctory manner, especially in dealing with subjects of emotional depth, especially between two or more characters, something at which Jordan excelled. 

It felt to me like he was going by a checklist of plot points to tick off, without adding much in terms of emotional impact. 
 

Obviously I paint with broad strokes, and there are some notable exceptions (e.g., Egwene's ending), but Sanderson just doesn't punch at quite the same weight as RJ.  There's a quasi-mystical element to RJ's style that Sanderson simply couldn't reproduce nor find a suitable replacement. 

The mysticism is what I really miss. RJ will have characters who've spent books being unable to express their emotions productively to one another (which is true to life!), who after two scenes of Brando are saying "hello, I was upset about this thing that you did, I realize it is unreasonable but nevertheless" and the other character says "yes it is quite unreasonable but I can understand thank you." Perrin and Faile are particularly rough for this.

 

Even in PoVs, things like the stark difference between RJs constant obfuscation of how exactly the Power works and what exactly is happening with weaves beyond other characters reactions is replaced with the very detailed description Aviendha gives in her PoV of trying to put out the fire at the manor. And even there! Aviendha's PoV talking about toh is both kind of true to her character but just... laid out for you as a reader. RJ would talk around and hint and intimate and coyly hide things, BS will just say "here's how they were feeling and here's why let's move on."

 

And I'll tell you, BS still manages to write gripping plots, engaging characters, and good reads despite(?) all that. It's just different. My first read through I hated it, I was like "OK well I'm getting the ending but I might as well have just read RJ's notes." In between then and my current reread, I've read a whole pile of the Cosmere and I've gotten a much better feel for BS's writing--he can be subtle! When his characters explain exactly how they're feeling, they can still be lying to each other. PoV characters will give a ton of clear detail.. and they can be wrong about that detail. He's so blunt that it lets him be subtle, if that makes sense.

 

I've come all the around to where Asthereal is on this. BS did as good a job as anyone could. It wasn't perfect, but he made a conscious choice to not try to write just like RJ would have and I think the books are better for it. It feels like a kind of betrayal, but I did really enjoy tGS and I'm actually looking forward to ToM.

[WheelofJuke]

I should note I haven't read any other BS work, so when I make statements regarding his writing style, I'm only speaking in reference to his stint with WoT, and in comparison/contrast to RJ. 

I'm sure he's a fine writer in his own milieu. 

[HeroAndros]

Sanderson was tasked with the impossible: finishing another's work. You can ask any author and they will all agree that even receiving that offer is a nightmare. Add to it that he was a huge fan of RJ, that's a whole new level of pressure. That being said he did the best that he could under the circumstances, and I do believe he has admitted that he was staying as close to the notes that RJ left as well as Harriet's guidance to give us all an ending.

 

I started reading his own works after the announcement, and I'm glad I did. He has become one of my favorite authors. I like the idea he has about the Cosmere, and the fact that we are getting to see so many different parts of it. What he does with his magic systems is impressive. Warbreaker is a good entry because it is a stand alone story, but I wouldn't hesitate to advise Mistborn, Stormlight, or if you want a light read and super heroes his Reckoners series was a lot of fun.

[MostOfTsushima]

This is tough.

Martin Scorsese passing away mid project could not possibly compare to this.   

What Sanderson had to do is literally unheard of. 

Someone please give me one historical comparison to having to complete a series as popular and highly respected as this?

There are so many characters, perspectives, plots and nuance. 

I can't think of a single comparison in documented human history, and that's no exaggeration.   

It's almost like saying "King James" didn't do "The Bible" justice compared the ones who directly talked to God.   

Please don't take me literally, just acknowledge the metaphor.