Is the Bore a hole in Tel'aran'rhiod?

[SilentRoamer]

So I've been reading around the internet (including some posts on here) and there are some great fan theories about the metaphysics of the Wheel of Time. Does anyone else think the Bore could be in Tel'aran'rhiod? Or more accurately, just beneath it. 

We know that Tel'aran'rhiod is the world of dreams, but more than that, we know that across all of the Multiversal patterns, there are only one Creator, one Dark One and one Tel'aran'rhiod. Essentially the world of dreams is the manifestation of consciousness, which is why you need to sleep to enter it, with the exception of entering the realm of consciousness physically. 

So I imagine a sort of trifle, at the bottom we have the jelly - this is the Dark One (this is no reference to my like or dislike of Jelly, but lets for arguments sake the Dark One is strawberry jelly). The custard, would be Tel'aran'rhiod and then at the top we have the Multiversal Pattern. Now, when Lanfear created the Bore, it was due to her "drilling" through Tel'aran'rhiod, and into the Dark Ones prison.

 

Ishamael (someone whose words I think we can hold some weight to - even if his nihilistic philosophies are proven to be wrong) says something to the effect of Shayol Ghul being no closer to the Bore physically than anywhere else, but that the thinness of the Pattern at Shayol Ghul allows the Dark One to seep through Tel'aran'rhiod. 

So my theory here (no doubt not original at all and inspired my many other far more intelligent WoT readers than me) is that Lanfear created the Bore as a metaphysical hole in reality, a hole in consciousness and will. 

Any takers?
 

[wotfan4472]

The Bore does not manifest in Telaranrhiod, except as a hole shaped wall while the seals were active, however, the Dark One could manipulate the reality and Telaranrhiod through the Bore because the seals were not totally perfectly in position. It was a slight gap.

 

By the end of the books during the Last Battle in Telaranrhiod, it was like a vacuum cleaner on full suction.

 

Ishamael is actually correct on the Bore, it was just the one place that allowed the Dark One to touch reality after Lanfear helped open it.

[SilentRoamer]

1 hour ago, wotfan4472 said:

The Bore does not manifest in Telaranrhiod, except as a hole shaped wall while the seals were active, however, the Dark One could manipulate the reality and Telaranrhiod through the Bore because the seals were not totally perfectly in position. It was a slight gap.

 

Yeah I don't think the Bore manifests in Tel'aran'rhiod, more it is a hole in Tel'aran'rhiod through to the Dark Ones prison, a hole in consciousness. Tel'ara'rhiod is essentially where Will becomes Manifest, the Tav'eren are just conduits for the Will of the Wheel, extant in the Pattern.

Tel'aran'rhiod has some odd properties, like for example I am not even sure that Channelers actually Channel in Tel'aran'rhiod, I just think that they believe they can channel, therefore they are able to Channel. 

No doubt ill solidify all these thoughts with my re-read. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by SilentRoamer

[SilentRoamer]

Double Post

Edited August 23, 2022 by SilentRoamer

[DojoToad]

The bore, tel'aran'rhiod and other physics type things are above my head - just as they are in the real world.  But I'm starting to pick it up a bit.

 

Keep up the conversation.

[SilentRoamer]

So I was thinking about why it is considered to enter Tel'aran'rhiod in the Flesh? I don't think we are given canonical explanation - can anyone confirm?

My thinking is that Tel'aran'rhiod, being a place of Consciousness and Will is metaphysically "closer" to the Dark One - because we know from AMOL that the DO is required in order to ensure humanities freedom (or free will = conscious choice). So the Dark Ones influence on the Pattern (such as the Blight) is a representation of Will made Flesh, in reverse, moving closer (metaphysically) to the Dark Ones prison by entering Tel'aran'rhiod represents Flesh made Will. 
 

Thoughts oh clever WoT people?

Edited August 24, 2022 by SilentRoamer
I can't spell Tel'aran'rhiod

[DojoToad]

Because the Wise Ones said so.

[wotfan4472]

21 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Because the Wise Ones said so.

Yes. They just did not realise that male Dreamwalkers that have Perrin's multi soul situation can actually enter talaranrhiod in the flesh without issue, or that it was even possible.

 

As for why the Wise Ones take issue, it is difficult to explain what they mean by losing their humanity.

It could mean doing that costs enjoyment, or loses the will to live in reality, like how a gentled man or stilled woman would be.

Edited August 25, 2022 by wotfan4472

[Elendir]

On 8/24/2022 at 9:02 AM, SilentRoamer said:

My thinking is that Tel'aran'rhiod, being a place of Consciousness and Will is metaphysically "closer" to the Dark One

 

This idea is one step from "Burn the witch". 😆

 

On 8/24/2022 at 9:02 AM, SilentRoamer said:

we know from AMOL that the DO is required in order to ensure humanities freedom (or free will = conscious choice).

The Dark One has nothing to do with free will. You need to have choice, any choice to have free will. You can't be good without refusing doing bad things. If doing good thing is your single choice, it don`t make you good.

[SilentRoamer]

21 minutes ago, Elendir said:

This idea is one step from "Burn the witch". 😆

 

 

Only if you view the DO as inherently evil, rather than as I believe it was eventually intentioned by Jordan as opposing force to Creation. 

 

24 minutes ago, Elendir said:

The Dark One has nothing to do with free will. You need to have choice, any choice to have free will. You can't be good without refusing doing bad things. If doing good thing is your single choice, it don`t make you good.

 

In AMOL, we see the influence that the DO and Creator have on the World. The DO is the embodiment of Selfishness, the Creator the embodiment of Selflessness. Both are required for choices to have meaning, Creation balanced by Destruction. 

[Elendir]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:50 AM, SilentRoamer said:

In AMOL, we see the influence that the DO and Creator have on the World. The DO is the embodiment of Selfishness, the Creator the embodiment of Selflessness. Both are required for choices to have meaning, Creation balanced by Destruction. 

We are saying practically the same thing. DO isn`t manifest of free will. DO is alternative so we can choose and choose leads to free will.