Noal Charin, Character within a character (...within a character?)

[Aut-astic]

I'm going to spoil the books all the way to the end, heads up. 

Also, I have read the theories (or is it accepted fact?) online about Jain's time with Graendal. I'm not sure how well that fits into my whole picture but bear with me.

 

Jordan created a system of archetypes and rules and in general he seems to do a good job following his own rules, with only a few moments in the books that I question. A number of items that feel like inconsistencies to me could be instead used to support a theory regarding the true identity of Jain Farstrider. One warming- I am due a reread and some of the items in my listy-list have become more vague in my memory. I don't have the books handy but if anyone wants to chip in with actual passages, I'd be tickled. (I am planning to grab from storage soon.)

 

Inconsistencies about Jain Farstrider:

This man went on SO MANY adventures. Then he had the time to write epic stories about those adventures. Then those stories were printed and distributed FAR and WIDE, in a world where they probably have printing presses but shipping relies on horses and boats.  The timeframe that realistically covers this is more like hundreds of years, a timeframe that even an Aes Sedai would be challenged to match. Any power that he has is not the one power due to him being male during the taint. 

Before we move on lets make an important note here: Farstrider's stories inspire almost all of the living heroes (as in non-horn-called) that fight in the last battle. This is important to my theory.

 

Inconsistencies about Noal:

Deals with the gholam, when they are a huge challenge to deal with. We know he cannot have used the one power but what in the world did he do?
Catches fish with his bare hands by sitting still and waiting in a river. We saw Moiraine do this previously and she described it as "an old Aes Sedai trick". 

**This is one I need to check back up on. At some point in conversation, the subject of Jain Farstrider's wife gets brought up in conversation, and Thom comments that he never had heard a story of Farstrider being married.

 

Jain Farstrider is none other than Lews Therin Telamon, called Kinslayer. Like Rand, he is given a new body following his confrontation with the dark one. This new body doesn't have access to the one power but can basically bend the strands of the pattern to his will. (Like we see Rand lighting his pipe without the use of the one power at the very tale end of the series.) Hence knowing what a gholam is and being equipped to deal with it. Would also explain why he knows an old Aes Sedai fishing trick. 

At some point after being given a new body and endless life, Lews Therin decided to use the opportunity to his advantage, took on a new name, and began to write about his adventures. This explains the hundreds of years timeline... as he literally has lived that long. His adventure stories that spread far and wide do indeed inspire the next generation of heroes. His death in the tower of Ghenjei is by his own choice, knowing that the last battle is coming and he intends to ride with the horn. 
The wife? "Ilyena, my love." The voice Rand hears in his head? The occasional thoughts of Lews Therin. Perhaps all men who channel tainted source are exposed to snippets of thoughts from men/women who played the same karmic roles that they currently play. As with all the other powers in the book, lack of understanding leads this power to be chaotic and dangerous. (See: Tel'aran'rhiod.) 

 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

You appear to be founding all this on him dealing with the Gholam - which later directly states it is under orders to avoid notice.  All that Noal had to do to cause a retreat was make a substantial noise along with Mat having avoided its ambush so no quick kill was possible.

[DojoToad]

Seems a very great stretch, especially with you relying  on other folks to supply actual passages. 

[JyP]

15 hours ago, Aut-astic said:

This man went on SO MANY adventures. Then he had the time to write epic stories about those adventures.

I recall other parts of the series where  having so much adventures is normally on par with what Warders are doing. Or Min's viewings about Warders and Aes Sedai, they have so much adventures...

 

So Jain Farstrider seems to me like someone having a lot of adventures, yes - but this is also the usual for Warders. Or ta'verens.
 

Quote

 

Deals with the gholam, when they are a huge challenge to deal with. We know he cannot have used the one power but what in the world did he do?

 

Seems to me Jain Farstrider as a hero would be a match for a Gholam - like Mat or Lan.

 

Quote

Catches fish with his bare hands by sitting still and waiting in a river. We saw Moiraine do this previously and she described it as "an old Aes Sedai trick". 

Could be an Aes Sedai trick or a fisher's trick - as Moiraine could very well have been taught by her pillow friend years before - Siuan Sanche.

 

Quote

Jain Farstrider is none other than Lews Therin Telamon, called Kinslayer. Like Rand, he is given a new body following his confrontation with the dark one. This new body doesn't have access to the one power but can basically bend the strands of the pattern to his will. (Like we see Rand lighting his pipe without the use of the one power at the very tale end of the series.) Hence knowing what a gholam is and being equipped to deal with it. Would also explain why he knows an old Aes Sedai fishing trick.

Seems to me a bit too much. Even when he stays behind to die in the Tower of Ghenjei, he stays in character as a malkieri.

 

It seems to me Jain Farstrider could be a true hero with a touch of ta'veren, or one of those "lucky" heroes, an untaught wielder of the One Power who never fully understand their power and live dangerous lives.

[Andra]

On 7/18/2022 at 3:15 PM, Aut-astic said:

Inconsistencies about Jain Farstrider:

This man went on SO MANY adventures. Then he had the time to write epic stories about those adventures. Then those stories were printed and distributed FAR and WIDE, in a world where they probably have printing presses but shipping relies on horses and boats.  The timeframe that realistically covers this is more like hundreds of years, a timeframe that even an Aes Sedai would be challenged to match. Any power that he has is not the one power due to him being male during the taint. 

A few things:

In a world where the fastest way to travel is by boat, there's no problem with having enough time between adventures to write them down.  He would have filled out journals that detailed everything he saw, heard and did - long before going to a publisher.  And there are transportation networks for trade that connect every major city on the continent.  It wouldn't actually be a problem getting a popular book in the hands of people everywhere.

 

But you are correct, there is no indication anywhere that he can channel.

 

None of that is an inconsistency.

 

On 7/18/2022 at 3:15 PM, Aut-astic said:

Inconsistencies about Noal:

Deals with the gholam, when they are a huge challenge to deal with. We know he cannot have used the one power but what in the world did he do?
Catches fish with his bare hands by sitting still and waiting in a river. We saw Moiraine do this previously and she described it as "an old Aes Sedai trick". 

**This is one I need to check back up on. At some point in conversation, the subject of Jain Farstrider's wife gets brought up in conversation, and Thom comments that he never had heard a story of Farstrider being married.

Noal has no idea what the gholam is when he rescues Mat from it.  So far as he knows, it's just an attempted mugger.  The gholam left because it was under orders to avoid notice.  Because Noal made it think there were a lot more people coming who would see it.

 

The "fish catching" thing is first seen with Perrin and Loial in book 3.  Moiraine tries it, and does better than either of them.  She doesn't say it's an "old Aes Sedai trick," that was Perrin being suspicious that she had somehow "cheated."  It's a pretty common technique among people familiar with traveling in the wilderness.  Noal was just really good at it, given how much of that he had done.

 

The fact that Thom hadn't heard of Farstrider having a wife in any of the stories just means he didn't settle down and get married until the stories were all published.

 

Again - none of those are inconsistencies.

 

On 7/18/2022 at 3:15 PM, Aut-astic said:

Jain Farstrider is none other than Lews Therin Telamon, called Kinslayer. Like Rand, he is given a new body following his confrontation with the dark one. This new body doesn't have access to the one power but can basically bend the strands of the pattern to his will. (Like we see Rand lighting his pipe without the use of the one power at the very tale end of the series.) Hence knowing what a gholam is and being equipped to deal with it. Would also explain why he knows an old Aes Sedai fishing trick. 

Absolutely not.  Though it is true that souls get reborn over and over, they only ever exist in one person at a time.  Rand is unquestionably Lews Therin reborn, and he and Jain Farstrider were both alive for about twenty years.  So LTT couldn't have been both of them.

And again, he didn't know what the gholam was and didn't do anything to "deal with it" beyond making noise, and the fishing technique had nothing to do with the Power.

 

There is apparently no set limit on how many Ta'veren can be alive at the same time, so it's certainly possible that he was one, though he's never identified as such.

 

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The problem with all of this is that we know exactly who Noal/Jain is.

In the first book, when we are told the story of the fall of Malkier, Jain Charin is said to have apprehended the traitor Cowin Fairheart and brought him to justice.  He is specifically said to already be known as "Farstrider" by then.  Which means that by the time of Lan's birth, he had already had famous adventures.  He would have been just under thirty at the time.

Between the fall of Malkier and the Aiel War, he continued to have (and write down) adventures.  Somewhere near the end of that time he settled down, got married, and published his book.  By which time he would have been in his fifties.

 

Shortly after the Aiel War, he turned up in a Stedding - near death and apparently insane - and relayed the story Loial told about the Dark One intending to "blind the Eye of the World."  A story that Ishamael tells Rand he intentionally planted to lure him to the Eye.

Somewhere around that time (before or after, we don't know) his wife dies, and he realized he had been manipulated by the Shadow, and he flees north of the Blasted Lands.  That's when he starts using the name Noal, and claiming to be his own cousin.

 

We aren't told in any of his story about the incident with Graendal, but it's obvious when we meet him in Ebou Dar that one of the Forsaken has done something to him that has damaged his memories, and Compelled him to spy on Jaichim Carridin, and on whichever of the Forsaken was acting in the city.  The Wheel of Time Companion tells us it was Graendal who did this to him, because of his fame.

 

Meeting Mat, and his impact as Ta'veren, allows him to free himself from the effects Compulsion and sets him on the path that leads to the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

He willingly sacrifices himself there not because he expects to be reborn as a Hero of the Horn, but because of the ideas about honor in the Borderlands.  He put down the mountain, and picked up the feather.

 

He was 75 years old when he died.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Andra