Metaphysics of the Time Loop in The Great Hunt

[SilentRoamer]

My re-read is progressing well and i'm now maybe 1/3rd through TBH (which I am really, really enjoying right now). We have the weird scene with Rand in the village when he is following Fain:

 

A smiling, bald-headed man in rough clothes laid a slice of meat on a plate held by a woman with a worn face. She was smiling, too, though. She added peas and turnips to the plate and passed it to one of the children lining the table. There were half a dozen children, boys and girls, from nearly grown down to barely tall enough to look over the table. The woman said something, and the girl taking the plate from her laughed. The man started to cut another slice.

Suddenly another girl screamed, pointing at the door to the street. The man dropped the carving knife and whirled, then he screamed, too, face tight with horror, and snatched up a child. The woman grabbed another, and motioned desperately to the others, her mouth working frantically, silently. They all scrabbled toward a door in the back of the room.

That door burst open, and-

Blink.

and then this...

Suddenly he was tearing at...something. He did not know what or how. Cobwebs made of steel. Moonbeams carved from stone. They crumbled at his touch, but he knew he had not touched anything. They shrivelled and melted with the heat that surged through heat, heat like a forge fire, etc...

So I am wondering what peoples thoughts are on this? Who created the Time Loop? I think we have potentially two people in the mix: Lanfear or Padan Fain. It sounds to me like Rand is tearing down Saidin weaves - the fact he can perceive the weaves rules them out as Saidar (which should rule out Lanfear using Saidar right?) I don't recall Padan Fain being able to channel. Do we think this is accomplished then with the True Power? Something either Lanfear or Padan would be capable of (with the DO's blessing). Except I don't recall either of them channeling the True Power in the rest of the series (I might just not be remembering though).

A question on this scene as well - is Lanfear travelling with Padan Fain? I know she is a Forsaken but at this point of the series Padan seems beyond the Powers of even a powerful Forsaken such as Lanfear - I mean the guy nailed a Myrrdral to a door, no small feat. 

Do we have any indication if the Time Loop appears again? Are there any names for the weaves? Perhaps the result of Mashadar or something to that effect originating from Fain as a Dark One Talent?

Interested in everyone's thoughts on this. 

[DojoToad]

I don't think Fain gets on with any of the Forsaken.  But he is powerful maybe in some similar ways, maybe completely different than them - but I don't think it is channeling.  I never thought about what did the time loop.  Was it the pattern?  Was it some 'lost' ability that Fain had?  Was it an additional ability Hurin had (and maybe didn't know about) that he projected as a side effect of his 'sniffing' ability?

[JyP]

I guess there's a third possibility alongside Padan Fain and Lanfear : Rand's own untamed powers at the time. A bit like the first chapter of TBH, whenever Rand is trapped by winds while training with Lan.

[SilentRoamer]

On 6/24/2022 at 3:47 PM, DojoToad said:

I don't think Fain gets on with any of the Forsaken.  But he is powerful maybe in some similar ways, maybe completely different than them - but I don't think it is channeling.  I never thought about what did the time loop.  Was it the pattern?  Was it some 'lost' ability that Fain had?  Was it an additional ability Hurin had (and maybe didn't know about) that he projected as a side effect of his 'sniffing' ability?

 

Yeah its the metaphysics I am interested in. Do we even know if Lanfear is with Padan Fain or just incidentally close by? 
 

My assumption is that this is something Fain has done, maybe like a weakening of the Pattern that loops the Weave or something similar. I don't recall any other time related Power stuff with the exception of the effects of Balefire.

We also see Rand channelling Saidin is what breaks him from the time loop, I wonder the fate of anyone unable to channel themselves free. 

Lanfear and Padan Fain are some of the coolest names ever, in fact Jordans character names are all really cool. 

 

[SilentRoamer]

6 minutes ago, JyP said:

I guess there's a third possibility alongside Padan Fain and Lanfear : Rand's own untamed powers at the time. A bit like the first chapter of TBH, whenever Rand is trapped by winds while training with Lan.

 It's possible but it would have to be done with his Ta'veren ability because channelling ends the time loop rather than starting it. Interesting thought though. 

[Nik]

I read it as a One Power trap because Rand cuts through what seems like weaves to stop it. But no idea who could have set it. It doesn't seem Lanfear's style.

 

Other option: bubble of evil?

[Andra]

6 hours ago, Nik said:

I read it as a One Power trap because Rand cuts through what seems like weaves to stop it. But no idea who could have set it. It doesn't seem Lanfear's style.

 

Other option: bubble of evil?

It does sound more like a bubble of evil.  And we know that channeling has been used to fight those.

 

10 hours ago, SilentRoamer said:

Do we even know if Lanfear is with Padan Fain or just incidentally close by? 

Readers are led to believe that Lanfear is in the same town, and is seen by Uno.  He had probably seen her once earlier, and couldn't find her either time.

 

She would almost certainly NOT have been working with Fain, as something like that would be completely counter to what we know of her.  But keeping an eye on the Horn and on Rand?  Absolutely.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Andra

[Nik]

Yeah I think it's pretty clear Lanfear is following them. 

[SilentRoamer]

10 hours ago, Nik said:

Yeah I think it's pretty clear Lanfear is following them. 

 

Yeah I know she is following them (because it is Lanfear who uses the portal stones to transport Rand) I just didnt know if she was travelling with Fain or not. 

 

It would seem unlikely now I have progressed a little and she actively positioned Rand into retreiving the horn. 

 

Lanfear ensured the Heroes could return. Go Lanfear!

[Elder_Haman]

Lanfear is a fascinating character. I would have enjoyed it if Jordan/Sanderson had given her some POV chapters. I'll be very interested to see what the show does with her.

[SilentRoamer]

15 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Lanfear is a fascinating character. I would have enjoyed it if Jordan/Sanderson had given her some POV chapters. I'll be very interested to see what the show does with her.

 

Yeah it's like I know she is just a terrible and awful person but i cant help but like her. Jordan writes her in a way that echoes what a reader might want. 

"Seize Glory, seize the Horn" - Her pressure for Rand to claim glory is echoed in the mind of the reader. The whole idea of a reluctant hero is that we WANT them to become the hero. 

[Kalessin]

I've always taken that time loop to be a side-effect of Rand learning how to tentatively touch saidin; though a bubble of evil makes a bit more sense. Only a bit more - Rand is the only one in that party of soldiers and tag-alongs who is affected by it.

 

But then, that bubble of evil that almost kills him during his sword practice with Lan, doesn't affect Lan. So we've got two sizes of bubbles of evil, the huge one that gets big groups of people, and the micro-bubbles, which affect only one person, and usually only because that one person is ta'veren and able to channel.

[Andra]

14 hours ago, Kalessin said:

I've always taken that time loop to be a side-effect of Rand learning how to tentatively touch saidin; though a bubble of evil makes a bit more sense. Only a bit more - Rand is the only one in that party of soldiers and tag-alongs who is affected by it.

 

But then, that bubble of evil that almost kills him during his sword practice with Lan, doesn't affect Lan. So we've got two sizes of bubbles of evil, the huge one that gets big groups of people, and the micro-bubbles, which affect only one person, and usually only because that one person is ta'veren and able to channel.

And that was definitely one of the things we noticed as the books progressed.

The first examples (when we didn't know what they were) directly affected Rand and no one else.

The next examples (when they get their name) directly affected the three Ta'veren separately and simultaneously.

After that, though they may have happened more frequently in the vicinity of the Ta'veren, they affected anyone nearby.

Eventually, their appearance became completely random.