Crossroads of Twlight

[Pembie]

Can someone explain to me what is the story with Logain Gabrielle and Toveine is exactly I can’t remember The sisters are there to kill men that can channel I think or spy on the black tower or something I don’t really understand Why are they with Logain is he good evil helping them with their mission 

[Andra]

5 hours ago, Pembie said:

Can someone explain to me what is the story with Logain Gabrielle and Toveine is exactly I can’t remember The sisters are there to kill men that can channel I think or spy on the black tower or something I don’t really understand Why are they with Logain is he good evil helping them with their mission 

 

Toveine Gazal and Gabrelle Brawley are Red sisters sent covertly to the Black Tower by Elaida to capture and gentle any male channelers they find.  And possibly to kill them, as is at least implied.

 

They fail before they can even start, and are both bonded (and Compelled) by Logain in the process.  They are with him because of that.

 

Their failure is primarily a failure of Tower intelligence - with both the numbers of Ash'aman and their strength in the Power being wildly underestimated.  But also a failure of Elaida to understand her own Foretelling.  As she has failed consistently throughout.

 

Logain is good.  Toveine and Gabrelle believe they are good (I don't think either of them turn out to be Black Ajah), though their mission is not.  He isn't helping them do anything, he's preventing it.  Though he is protecting them from others that might harm them for their failure.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Andra

[Pembie]

I didn’t get any of that really from reading it But then again they need to be in it more that’s why I think there’s too many characters I forget about the smaller ones

 

thanks for your help 

[Andra]

5 minutes ago, Pembie said:

I didn’t get any of that really from reading it But then again they need to be in it more that’s why I think there’s too many characters I forget about the smaller ones

 

thanks for your help 

My pleasure.

 

The mission to the Black Tower is ordered by Elaida in the prologue to Crown of Swords.  At the time, she believes that Rand is still Galina's prisoner (she either hasn't heard about Dumai's Wells yet, or it hasn't happened yet) and that most of the reported Ash'aman probably can't channel.  And those that can are probably weak, and definitely lack training.  So she only sends 50 sisters and a couple hundred of the Guard (since Reds don't have Warders).

 

By the time those Reds get to the Black Tower, Dumai's Wells has happened, and the Ash'aman have no fear left of Sisters.  When word gets back to Elaida, she abandons them at Alviarin's urging.

[Pembie]

I kind of thought that Matt espaced Dar tar but he hasn’t left yet hiding out with the circus 

[Andra]

On 1/25/2022 at 7:06 PM, Pembie said:

I kind of thought that Matt espaced Dar tar but he hasn’t left yet hiding out with the circus 

Mat doesn't have anything to do with the events at Dumai's Wells or the Black Tower.

[Pembie]

Wasn’t Measma the false prophet with Perrin they were walking back to Rand I’m sure in Crossroads he seems to have gone off to the white cloaks have I gotten this wrong 

[Pembie]

On 1/27/2022 at 2:50 AM, Andra said:

Mat doesn't have anything to do with the events at Dumai's Wells or the Black Tower.

I know his with Tylin and Tuon but he is on the run 

[Pembie]

Well Tylin has been killed by the Golhom now

[Andra]

1 hour ago, Pembie said:

I know his with Tylin and Tuon but he is on the run 

 

Neither of which are anywhere near the Black Tower or Dumai's Wells.

 

 

1 hour ago, Pembie said:

Wasn’t Measma the false prophet with Perrin they were walking back to Rand I’m sure in Crossroads he seems to have gone off to the white cloaks have I gotten this wrong 

Rand sent Perrin to bring back Masema (the Prophet).  Masema has been in contact with every authority in the area, possibly including the Whitecloaks, but he hasn't gone off with any of them.

 

Perrin wouldn't want to meet with the Whitecloaks, since they want to kill him.

[Pembie]

8 hours ago, Andra said:

 

Neither of which are anywhere near the Black Tower or Dumai's Wells.

 

 

Rand sent Perrin to bring back Masema (the Prophet).  Masema has been in contact with every authority in the area, possibly including the Whitecloaks, but he hasn't gone off with any of them.

 

Perrin wouldn't want to meet with the Whitecloaks, since they want to kill him.

As you can probably tell this story confuses me thanks for your help

[Andra]

On 1/28/2022 at 6:58 AM, Pembie said:

As you can probably tell this story confuses me thanks for your help

My pleasure.

But I would still recommend - especially since you appear to be getting more confused as you proceed - that you stop and re-read from the beginning.

Otherwise you just end up piling confusion on top of confusion.  It's a vicious cycle you might not ever be able to break if you go on.

[Pembie]

Hmm maybe I will make notes from now on I don’t really want to start again it’s taken a long time to get here 

[Andra]

5 hours ago, Pembie said:

Hmm maybe I will make notes from now on I don’t really want to start again it’s taken a long time to get here 

At least go back and skim.

I find that if I do that, the things I wasn't sure I remembered can seem to jump off the page as I go back over them.

Even things as seemingly simple as who was where at what point in the story can help resolve things.  And skimming can help fix those things in your mind.

 

Believe me, if you're experiencing confusion now, the story will turn into a complete maze if you don't.

[Asthereal]

On 1/30/2022 at 9:03 AM, Andra said:

At least go back and skim.

I find that if I do that, the things I wasn't sure I remembered can seem to jump off the page as I go back over them.

Even things as seemingly simple as who was where at what point in the story can help resolve things.  And skimming can help fix those things in your mind.

 

Believe me, if you're experiencing confusion now, the story will turn into a complete maze if you don't.

This is a good point. I have several times gone back to confusing or vital moments for a sanity check while in my first read-through. Especially the ending of TEotW, Dumai's Wells and the end of WH.

 

Stuff I didn't go back to, but should have:

-Rand in Rhuiddean (TSR)

-... Rand in Rhuiddean!!!
Why oh why did I not go back to re-read that bit at least a few times? ?

Edited January 31, 2022 by Asthereal

[Andra]

1 hour ago, Asthereal said:

This is a good point. I have several times gone back to confusing or vital moments for a sanity check while in my first read-through. Especially the ending of TEotW, Dumai's Wells and the end of WH.

 

Stuff I didn't go back to, but should have:

-Rand in Rhuiddean (TSR)

-... Rand in Rhuiddean!!!
Why oh why did I not go back to re-read that bit at least a few times? ?

Occasionally, when I've gone back over something I thought I remembered differently, I actually discovered a contradiction (or at least an inconsistency).  I think the first example of that was the length of a week, of all things.

 

Usually, I discovered that I had misread something to begin with.  And going back over it cleared up the confusion.

[Pembie]

Gosh this book is boring The stuff with Elaine just goes on forever 

[Andra]

40 minutes ago, Pembie said:

Gosh this book is boring The stuff with Elaine just goes on forever 

I don't think you'll get much disagreement on that.

All I can say is "it gets better."  And some of what goes on with her in CoT is VERY important later.

 

But only some.

 

 

 

You're basically coming to the end of what is popularly called "the slog."  The pace picks up dramatically when it's over.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Andra

[Pembie]

Is this the first book in which we find out Hanlon is a darkfriend?

[Andra]

4 hours ago, Pembie said:

Is this the first book in which we find out Hanlon is a darkfriend?

Well, he was one of Gaebril's (Rahvin's) White Lions, so we've had an idea he was a bad guy for quite awhile.

And Min had a viewing about him in the pavilion with Toram Riatin just before "Mordeth" slashes Rand with the Dagger (Crown of Swords, ch.35).  Again, not specifically about being a darkfriend, but definitely a villain.

But the first definitive info we had about him being a darkfriend was in Path of Daggers when he reports to Mili Skane.  Which was before he "saved Elayne's life" and joined the Guard.

[Pembie]

So Elza is dark Ajah asking her warded to kill anyone who tries to kill Rand to make sure he gets to the last battle so he can die there have I got that right 

 

And I thought Logain was doing his own mission but his turned up as a Ashaman to help Rand  now and Rand seems to trust him very odd 

[Andra]

Yes, we have that from a POV of Elza's when she thought about what her oath to Rand meant.

---

When Egwene released Logain, she basically got a promise from him to help Rand.  He never really had anything of his own to do, once his claim to be Dragon Reborn failed.  Except vengeance, which this is better than.

 

Rand has no more reason to distrust him than any other Asha'man, and significantly less than some.

[Asthereal]

On 2/2/2022 at 2:56 AM, Pembie said:

Gosh this book is boring The stuff with Elaine just goes on forever 

Yeah, Crossroads of Twilight is the worst book by far. Brandon Sanderson called it "all setup and no payoff", and that's exactly right. Most of the payoffs come in Knife of Dreams, which is excellent again, so if people make it to CoT I recommend they keep going. The good stuff is coming soon. You won't regret it. ? 

[Pembie]

I know I ask a lot of questions but sometimes this story is just baffling and in my opinion just bit naff haha

Perrin has gone to So Harbour to sell grain I ask why is that so important while Faile is missing seems like the last thing you would think of doing lol

 

I like though that that town seems haunted and people can see dead people there or I’m thinking they catch glimpses of people dreaming while in the dreamworld 

[Andra]

2 hours ago, Pembie said:

I know I ask a lot of questions but sometimes this story is just baffling and in my opinion just bit naff haha

Perrin has gone to So Harbour to sell grain I ask why is that so important while Faile is missing seems like the last thing you would think of doing lol

 

I like though that that town seems haunted and people can see dead people there or I’m thinking they catch glimpses of people dreaming while in the dreamworld 

No, it's actual dead people.

 

Perrin has gone there not to sell grain, but to buy it.  Because if his people are going to be able to catch up and defeat the Shaido, they have to eat.

 

It's actually one of the things some people like about the books - that they don't ignore things like that.