A Memory of Light - The Plot (Part Deux)

[Luckers]

So, some time ago on a particularily boring day, i had a flash of nerdyness and wrote out a summary of how i thought the plot of A Memory of Light would go. Since then i've changed my position on certain things (mostly because of you Robert! You knowledgeable bastard! :))

 

Anyway once again i find myself bored, so im going to go to the bad nerdy place again, and re-write my list. Preceding this i want to say that im working on the understanding that this is the last book. It is my belief, therefore, that the pace must increase, the threat of the shadow must increase, and that events must be happening concurrently, solving problems for me--this is the foundation for how i linked together seperate events in the sequence of progression.

 

Prologue.

 

As always the prologue will be big and cover a lot of the setting up of the rest of the book. I thought therefore it deserved its own section. Here is what i see occuring, though perhaps not nessasarily in this order.

 

Mat - Will be heading for the Tower of Ghenjei. Will possibly even be there preparing to enter. His part in the prologue will involve him sending his army north to return the Aes Sedai to Tar Valon, or perhaps Caemlyn. Only a small group will travel with him to the Tower, possibly only Thom and Noal.

 

Lan - His part will cover the beginning of Tarmon Gai'don. You will see him arriving in Shienar and meeting up with the force that have gathered to join him, having heard. It will be touching, and it will end with scouts bringing word of a Trolloc army the size of which has never been seen, possibly a million, possibly two. We will leave with Lan preparing the defence. He will have perhaps 50,000 men, perhaps more or less.

 

Aviendha - Will also hear of a Trolloc army moving south out of the Shadow's lance. Rhuarc will be gathering his forces to move to meet it. I also believe some sort of confrontation between Aviendha and Graendal will occur--mostly because Aviendha's sort of lacked any limelight, now has an angreal, and someone needs to stir Graendal out of Arad Domon. I'm actually quite looking forward to it.

 

Tuon - Will have just listened to the sul'dam lay down Rand's request for a meeting, and they will reluctantly also reveal Semirhage hiding out as Anath. Tuon will show no fear. She will calmly start planning her meeting with Rand, and how to get her way. This scene will either end with word being brought of Trollocs in Amadecia, or that will happen perhaps around chapter 3. I'm not sure, though i am fairly certain this will occur. Mostly because of the repeated Seanchan comment of 'i wish to see these shadowspawn of yours' and because the Seanchan need to have the threat of the shadow brought home--until now they only acknowledge in an esoteric sense. But also because there needs to be some evidence of why sealing the waygates was important. And again, as i said, last book--multiple purposes to everything.

 

Egwene - Her scene in the prologue will involve her serving Elaida at dinner. It's my belief that Elaida will have invited others, wanting to show off her success. My guess is Meidani, Pevara, Tarna, Javindhra, Beonin and maybe Silviana. With Duhara out of the Tower i dont see Elaida wanting to impress anyone else. Egwene will essentially make Elaida look like a complete fool, and worse. It will be the deciding moment of her victory. Elaida will snap, commanding Egwene be put in the cells until she is stilled, but we will see on all the women presents faces that it is Elaida they now look down on. Silviana, and perhaps Pevara and Javindhra as well, will escort her down, and as they go, Egwene will talk and they wont silence her. They will put her in the cells though.

 

Perrin - This scene will either be Perrin's or Galad's... my guess Galads. It will involve the Whitecloaks meeting up with Perrins force. Something that will no doubt prove interesting with Byar and Dain, not to mention Galad and Berelain. At the end though they will agree to move together, and Perrin will decide it is time to meet up with Rand.

 

Pevara - I believe that following Elaida's spiel, Pevara will call together the Hunters, or go to meet them, in the basement. Specifically i think she will have realised from Elaida's actions that she was being used by Alviarin, who she will come to believe is Black Ajah. Also it puts the Hunters out of harms way. Which they need to be.

 

Others - There will probably be short scene from Alviarin. Possibly one from Aran'gar having saught out Graendal. Maybe one from Semirhage or Cadsuane. Possibly one from Interulde dealing with Turan, though in truth i think that will be dealt with in passing. There may also be a Seanchan POV of the landing on the roof of the tower, and waiting for enough damane to begin the assault... either here or at the very beginning of chapter one.

 

PART ONE - Pre Tarmon Gai'don.

 

In this section i will move as chronologically as i can, though its possible the events will be interwoven POV's.

 

Rand - Will approach the Borderlanders--my guess without Cadsuane, who will be questioning Semirhage. I believe something big will occur with the Borderlanders, they have been around but unaddressed for too many books. Too many side references to the thirteen Aes Sedai with them have been made. Then we have Min's viewing about the darkness around Bashere, plus the fact that we know Perrin gets the Broken Crown, so both Bashere and Tenobia need to die. Then there is the viewing that women who can channel must still hurt Rand on more time. And the viewing that Perrin must be there to save Rand one more time. Too my mind the Thirteen are most likely black. They will shield Rand, and in the ensueing battle Tenobia and Bashere will be killed, likely Elza as well.

 

I'm not sure how he will escape, unfortunately. I suspect Perrin will play a part, but we dont know for sure that viewing is linked to the one about women channelers--though again my theory of multi-purpose events may be in play, but if Perrin were involved it would leave him with the broken crow, reunited with Rand, and will pull the Borderlanders into the force of the light. Either way Rand being hurt will not last long. One, maybe two seperated chapters. It will solved by before one third of the way through the book.

 

Tarna - Is with Elaida in her rooms on the upper floors of the Tower. Elaida has been ranting and drinking, and is near insensible. Tarna is honest with herself about Elaida's chances, and remarks to herself her respect for Egwene, and how sad it was the girl was to be stilled. Then she becomes aware of noises. She goes to Elaida's balcony and witnesses to'raken arriving. She connects it with Egwene's dreams. She tries to rouse Elaida but she wont stop ranting against treasons. She tries to subdue Elaida and force her with her physically, but Elaida reacts by drawing the power and concluding Tarna is treasonous. Tarna is forced to flee without her even as she hears the sounds of running footsteps of the Seanchan.

 

Mat - Entering the Tower of Ghenjei. Since i have no idea what thats like i wont even attempt to describe it. This may be the point in which he loses his eye, as well. I dont think he will find Moiraine in the scene, but if he does it will be at the very end. She likely wont even talk.

 

Lan - Evacuating Fal Moran, and acknowledging that he cannot hold this force. Instead he decides to slow it as best he can until reinforcements can come.

 

Mesaana - It will start in a meeting of the Forsaken, and end with her awakening to find the Seanchan in the Ajah Quarters. I think it is possible that she will be leashed, either whilst she was unaware in Tel'aran'rhiod, or just after. Maybe she will escape, i cant really say. But there does need to be a scene in which we see the Seanchan are leashing Aes Sedai in the Ajah Quarters, and i like it being from Mesaana... sort of an exclamation point about the Forsaken thinking they stood outside of danger, and Mesaana forced to fight for her life in a battle that did not even involve the Shadow. Alternatively this scene could be played by Alviarin or Beonin.

 

Amusingly i see the majority of the sisters that manage to escape will be Reds, having been warned by Tarna. Its not that i dont see Tarna attempting to warn the other Ajahs, i just dont see her having the time to get to them all. Plus having Read fall in line with Egwene would be an iconic moment of the new unity of the Tower.

 

Egwene - Will be in the cells with Silviana, speaking to her of Elaida. I believe that Silviana will be listening, after what she saw earlier, and admitting the danger of allowing Elaida to continue at Amyrlin. This is when Tarna and the Reds, or perhaps someone else, arrive bringing word of the Seanchan. They will say the Seanchan are still in the Ajah Quarters fighting and leashing sisters. Egwene will turn to Silviana and demand her decision. Egwene is released and takes immediate charge. She sends sisters to gather the novices and the Accepted, as well as to gather any sister they can find. This will be when they meet up with Pevara and her lot, both of them being in the basement levels. Leane will be freed then too. Egwene will come to the conclusion in light of the reported strength of the Seanchan that it is only with the Rebels they will have a chance of fighting back, so she decides to travel to the Rebels. The others agree. My one uncertainty is wether any of them will think to gather angreal or sa'angreal. My guess is that its unlikely, but who knows.

 

Perrin - possibly freeing Rand, definately consolidating the Borderlanders into his army. Word comes to Rand that Tuon will meet.

 

The Band of the Red Hand - Reach Caemlyn. My guess is this will be an Egeanin POV. They will speak with Elayne, and there will be some sort of flare up to do with Bethamin and Seta amongst the captive sul'dam and damane.

 

Lan - Despite his best efforts the Trollocs continue to drive straight at Tar Valon. He stays ahead of them.

 

Aviendha - The battle is joined in the south of Saldaea. A scene of wise ones and asha'men channeling. The other possibility is this scene will involve the betrayal of the darkfriend wise ones, during which many will be killed or injured. Aviendha will join Sorilea and Amys in fighting the Wise One Darkfriends, feeling terrible anger at the betrayal. So on, so forth.

 

Romanda - Is sleeping. Or maybe reminiscing on the bonding of Asha'men--possibly she bonded one herself, though i doubt it--and the reaction of the sisters to knowledge of Delana and Halima. She hears cries of alarm and fear, and gets out of bed with Magla and Salita coming too. She comes out to find Lelaine facing off with Egwene who has with her somewhere between fifty and a hundred sisters--most red, and in night-wear, as well as hundreds of novices and accepted. Lelaine is challanging Egwene about the Reds, she is angry but seems very dangerous. Egwene warns them all of the atack on the Tower but Lelaine still reacts with disbelief.

 

Suine and Bryne come along, bryne warns that they must act quickly, because if the Seanchan are allowed to consolidate their hold in the Tower they will be very difficult to force out. Egwene starts issuing commands, she sends Tarna and some others to gather Chubain and his men, commands the forming of circles with novices. It may be that an Aes Sedai attempts to weave a gateway into the Tower and cannot because it comes too close to making a weapon for one man to kill another--its possible Pevara still has the oath rod, and suggests the removing of the oaths, though i am unsure.

 

Mat - Meets up with Moiraine. Encounters a problem with the Fins, possibly again the point where he may give up his eye in order to escape.

 

Elaida - Within the Tower Elaida is in shock. She is leashed. She keeps flashing back to Tarna warning her. With increasing horror she begins to see what she's done to the Tower. She hears a report from one of the Seanchan to their leader. Some of the sisters managed to escape, along with the novices. She learns that someone pulled the Tower Guards and warders that were staying in the Tower baracks out. The Rebel army has moved into the city and is taking up positions around the Tower. There have been battles, in which the Seanchan have been defeated and driven back into the Tower. The leader concludes that they are facing a very intelligent enemy, and Elaida realises it is Bryne. The Seanchan Leader then says that it does not matter, they do not have to take the city, just hold the tower until the land force arrives. Elaida protests, and we leave her as she is being punished.

 

Mat - Is free of the Finns, and with Moiraine and Thom (Noal, i suspect, will die. Heroically, as befits Jain Farstrider.) He heads west to Caemlyn, to rejoin the Band. Moiraine is suitably cool, and also interested in the changes that have occured since she was trapped.

 

Egwene - Reminises over the past two days. Originally the fighting had been very heated, though that had slowed. Now Bryne was employing an attrition tactic, luring the Seanchan to one place, then attacking another by gateway--again the Aes Sedai may have had to remove the oaths to achieve this, something which Egwene is of two minds about--wiping out that other place, then retreating. It seemed to be working in the short term, but Egwene is concerned that it was not enough. She fears that the act of destroying the Seanchan may also destroy the Aes Sedai--or perhaps someone else raises this, again referring to the mice analogy. Too many deaths and the Tower dies. During the course of this we are witness to a short battle between Aes Sedai and Seanchan. Egwene witnesses the way the Aes Sedai and the Asha'men are getting on so well, and feels wonder at that, and also caution. But it makes her think of aid. She sends for Elayne, and likely also to Rand, though his armies are busy and i doubt that any aid from him will come in time.

 

Elayne - Or possibly Mat, or Moiraine. Mat arrives in Caemlyn. He is meeting with Elayne, Teslyn and the others are there, as well as the Seanchan women. there is more exposition of some change in the damane. Dylin is probably there too, and a couple of others. People at first dont realise who Moiraine is, since she was likely severed. Elayne then informs her of the way to heal stilling, though none nearby can perform that weave so she must wait (i actually hope she waits long enough for Flinn or another Asha'men to do it). An Aes Sedai arrives from Egwene--probably Myrelle--informing of the Seanchan attack on the Tower.

 

Elayne immediately begins gathering her forces, though i doubt all of Andors armed forces are close enough for easy access. She gets the Kin on side, and possibly the Athan'Miere, though that may prove more difficult. I also really hope that we see a confrontation with Duhara here... i can't wait to see the womens reaction to the situation at the Tower. They possibly also go to the Sisters at the Silver Swan. Mat and the Band join her.

 

Pevara - The city is silent. People move stealthily to avoid drawing attention from either side. Pevara and her force move forward on a planned attack against the Seanchan position. The attack begins but out of the corner of her eye she catches sight of Alviarin, who was not capture as was originally thought... perhaps Mesaana is with her. They are talking to a sister, possibly Lelaine, and are acting furtive. The woman ducks away, and Pevara is forced to focus on the Seanchan. But she is wary of Alviarin, and decides to warn the others, and try and hunt down the woman later.

 

Seanchan - Or Elaida. With the arrival of reinforcements the assaults on the Tower have increased. One of the Seanchan remarks on how the enemy seem to be everywhere and no where. There are talks of the use of explosives wielded by common soldiers and not channelers. The Seanchan fret that the slope of the battle has changed direction. They worry that reinforcements will not arrive in time.

 

Egwene - watches Mat and Bryne planning. She thinks about how startled she is at the change in him, but admits had anyone suggested she herself would be anything like what she was now, she would have scoffed. Moiraine has been healed by then, hopefully by an Asha'men. She and many others are present. There is conciderably confidence now that the battle in the Tower can be won, though the battle is far from over. This is when Lan is brought in. He looks ragged, though his eyes are cold and fierce. He does not recognized Moiraine. He warns of the Trolloc army approaching the city. There is shock. Egwene remains cool, and looks to Mat and Bryne. They immediately start manning the defense, including the guarding of the Waygate.

 

Pevara - and the others have been watching the sister Alviarin met with (Lelaine, maybe) go from sister to sister, speaking quietly with them. Or perhaps one of the Black sisters bound to Pevara is approached. Either way they become aware of Black Sisters organising for something. She gathers those she can be certain of, and follows them. They are taking positions near the main gates, or the Waygate. The Trolloc attack begins. The Blacks link, gather their power, and thats when Pevara strikes. The Black Sisters attempt is shattered, though there are casualties the first onslaught is held. The Blacks flee. In the Ogier Garden the attempt at containment fails, though the Light does manage to contain the Trollocs within the Garden. My guess is that the Band will be playing this roll, with the first real use of the Dragons within the city walls. It seems likely that her bonded Asha'men darkfriends will play some part here.

 

Tuon - She is with Galgan. They are discussing dealing with the force that assaulted Amadecia. They ran wild for a time, but now the Seanchan seem to be regaining control. Perhaps she is reminiscing whilst on a raken, or perhaps Rand agreed to come to Ebou Dar, but this is where the meeting with Rand will take place. She is calm, controlled. He is slightly eradic, and she notices he seems pained. He lays out the situation in his passionate, simple worded way, and she notes the similarities in his speech with Mat's.

 

She agrees calmly that there is need for unity and he seems suspicious of her easy capitulation. She states that she is aware of the danger, citing Semirhage and the Trolloc assault, and that all the omens said Tarmon Gai'don was upon them. She asks him what his terms would be for the alliance, and he suggests only a ceasation of all hostilities until after Tarmon Gai'don, and that they work together against the shadow.

 

She says that she can live with that, though she thinks to herself about him kneeling to the Crystal Throne, but she decides that can wait, for now they must deal with the Shadowspawn. Rand, or perhaps Cadsuane, points out that ceasation of hostilities includes stopping leashing women who can channel including the Aes Sedai. Tuon doesn't like that, but Rand won't budge. Tuon decides that leashing marath'damane must again be set aside until more pressing matters are solved, though she refuses to unleash those damane she has already leashed, which Rand swallows--making Nynaeve angry. They reach an agreement, and in honour of that Tuon reveals the assault underway in the Tower. Rand demands they go immediately to put a stop to it.

 

Both sides immediately call up the forces near them. For Tuon it includes soldiers and damane, around a thousand soldiers and at least the six damane. For Rand it includes Maidens, some of Perrins force, who came with Perrin, as well as Asha'men and their bonded Aes Sedai under Logain. They travel to the Tower, and the leader of the Seanchan assault comes before Tuon, and tells her of how the assault had been going badly, until the shadowspawn arrive. They rush onto the balcony and see the Aes Sedai engaged in furious battles all around the walls. One or two of the gates may have been compromised. Tuon immediately takes command and orders the Seanchan out against the Shadowspawn.

 

Note: I believe this will all be from Tuon's POV because it involved the fulfilling of Egwene's dream reguarding the Seanchan women with the sword.

 

Egwene - The fighting has been going on without stop for a day, or more. There have been no lulls, and her side was beginning to take to many losses. She fears if it continues there is no hope. She has been seperated from her army during a battle. She hurries through the streets with perhaps one of two other sisters. Trollocs appear, and charge them. Egwene feels no fear though she thinks there is no hope. Her only concern is that the Tower survive. She hopes they will travel away before all is lost. This is when Gawyn and the Younglings arrive along with Coverla thus fulfilling him saving her, though i imagine there is more to it then that... i believe he will have had a scene earlier on when he decides to abandon Elaida's command... but meh.

 

There is a lull, and the two share a tender moment, though brief. They fight there way back to joining the others of her group, she discovers two, perhaps more, of the gates have fallen. She decides there is no hope, or perhaps is urged to that decision by Bryne or one of the others. She decides that the Aes Sedai must abandon the city in order that they live to fight another day.

 

Trollocs break through, and fight is joined again. She is about to issue her commands when suddenly the ground begins exploding under the Trollocs, and lightning begins to fall. At the same time word is brought from a lookout in the tower, that all accross the wall channeling based attacks were striking the trollocs. Someone else brings word of the Seanchan joining the battle. And perhaps that Rand and other Asha'men are with a group of them. Outside the city the Seanchan land force arrives.

 

Egwene immediatle rallies her forces, and commands that an all out assault be launched. She herself leads a force to find Rand and the others. She finds them near a gate, with Seanchan, unleashing destruction on the Trollocs. She joins them in attack, and the Trollocs break. Egwene and Tuon meet, though they dont really talk. Its more of one of those 'each person takes in the others strength in a glance' type things. They continue to attack the Trollocs accross the river. The force breaks in truth, and word comes that all accross the city the Shadowspawn were in route, and fleeing.

 

Demandred - Outside the city with perhaps one or two other Forsaken, watching the Trollocs flee. He is furious at Al'thor for intervening. He sets about seeing to the stopping the Trollocs from fleeing all the way back to the Borderlands. Its possible this will be the second such Demandred POV, with one earlier dealing with the who's who of the Shadowspawn army, as well as establishing where the dark channelers had come from, since i dont see them all being just Black Sisters.

 

Others - During the first part of the book there will be some time given to Interulde and the Seanchan. I have no idea how that will play out, though i don't see Interulde losing. Additionally Rhuarc and the battle with the other Trolloc Army will be given more light then ive suggested, though that could fit in anywhere. Also Verin is, i believe, heading for the Tower to recover the Horn--who knows what part she will play in the events there. Something will no doubt occur with Egwene, too.

 

PART TWO - Tarmon Gai'don.

 

Following this battle there will be a moment of quietness. The first battle has been won, and now the war is to begin. We will see a meeting of all the major figures for the light, and some final hashing out of problems.

 

Egwene - We will see her placing the stole on her shoulders, for the first time as Amyrlin within the Tower. Several hours have passed, perhaps a full day. The Trollocs were still in route, and they had scouts out watching to make sure. Several darkfriends had been captured, but most of the Black Ajah had escaped, and Egwene is wary because there is still the chance others still remained hidden. Tuon had commanded the Seanchan forces to camp outside the city. Egwene is furious that the women did not release captive Aes Sedai, and is furious at Rand for having agreed to that.

 

She is not alone in the room, the Hall is there. Egwene thinks that she is suprised at how easily the two halls blended together, the too-young sitters being replaced by their more suitable counter-parts in the other hall thanks to the Ajah Heads plan, though i doubt Egwene knows of that. The sitters are advising her in reguards to a meeting that is about to happen. She notice that some of them still look uneasy, and that all the Aes Sedai were still reeling after the last week. They don't really seem to know what stance to take on either Rand or the Seanchan. They are still furious, and uneasy at the Seanchan assault, but are aware that without them Tar Valon would have fallen. They are also frightened of the power the shadow was able to bring to bear on the Tower, and the need for unity within the light. One of them makes it clear that Egwene must gain the freedom of the leashed sisters, which Egwene agrees to. She remains calm.

 

Egwene rises and goes to the meeting. I doubt she goes alone, maybe she takes Suine and Bryne, or two sitters--Romanda and Pevara perhaps. Or Tarna. The meeting is in the Hall of the Tower, where Egwene takes the Amyrlin seat. She is irritated that the blue has been removed.

 

The others begin arriving. Rand, with Cadsuane and Logain, Tuon with Galgan and maybe the leader of the Seanchan assault force. Mat with Talmanes and maybe Teslyn, or Setelle Anan (i hope the later, coz that'd be kind of pointing out how foolish Aes Sedai attitude towards severed sisters are). Perrin with Faile and whatshisname. The spymaster? (Alliandre, Morgase and the rest would not have come to the meeting with the Seanchan, so wouldn't be present). Elayne with Gawyn and Birgitte (Egwene is pleased to see Gawyn. She has bonded him, though he has been with Elayne since the route of the Trollocs). Harine, Shalon and her swordmaster are there on behalf of the Mistress of Ships. Lan with Moiraine and Nynaeve (glaring daggers).

 

It works out quite well, actually, with each seat in the Hall filled. The meeting will start with Tuon relating reports the raken have brought of the Trolloc horde. They remain in flight though there seems to be someone exerting control again. Other groups who had scouts out support this. Once this has been established, the question is raised of how to respond.

 

This is when Egwene will step in. She will state that unity is required, that the events of the past few days proved that. She will say that the shadow worked to devide us, and now we need to stand united. She then addresses Tuon directly, saying there is much distrust for the Seanchan, but that they had proven they needed each other. She will then say that that will not happen unless all leashed Aes Sedai are released, irrespective of the results.

 

And i believe that Tuon will give it to her, in light of what occured. Perhaps Mat will throw his weight behind Egwene--especially if Bode was leashed, which seems possible. Rand may remain silent, but i imagine the others would speak up in support of it. I rather suspect that a healed Satelle Anan will play a big part in this too. She will include her own provisions though, that only Aes Sedai who wished to be released will be so, and that she gets to keep one in particular (specificall, Mesaana, if she was leashed).

 

Egwene will agree to this, and the meeting will continue. Rand's forces in Illian will move to aid the Seanchan against the Trollocs in Amadacia, and begin ferrying the Seanchan north.

 

For the actually play out of the battles im uncertain how it will proceed. I believe the tactic will be slash runs because the Trollocs outnumber the forces of the Light. I believe that Interulde and Turan will eventually join Rhuarc, whilst the Aes Sedai, the Seanchan near Tar Valon, Elayne, Lan and eventually the borderlanders and whitecloaks will persue the army north of Tar Valon. The force in Illian and the other Seanchan will be split between the two, as well as dealing with the Murandians who i believe will be under Demandred's influence.

 

The reason i think this is that it is my belief that the Seanchan and the Whitecloaks will eventually come to respect the Aes Sedai--at least in a strange way. And the only real way to foster that is have them forced to fight side-by-side. Even if they don't putting them together makes for interesting drama.

 

In any case, as i said im not sure the progression, but with the work of Mat, Galgan, Interulde and Bryne, not to mention the lesser brilliant generals, they will employ tactics that will win. Oh, Demandred will pull surprises, especially the Murandians, and there will be loses and back and forth. Eventually the shadowspawn will be forced back towards the borderlands. First slowly, and then with increasing success. It will be around then that Rand begins planning the assault on Shayol Ghoul. Specifically, i suspect another one of those ripples occurs, and maybe the final seals are broken. Maybe Rand decides to break them. I'm not sure. But before we get to that there are things that will occur throughout this section, things of more importance, really, then the battles--because they are character moments.

 

Logain - I believe it will be noted that Asha'men were fighting on behalf of the Shadow. Logain again tries to warn Rand, and is shut down, so he goes looking for proof, not really expecting a confrontation. Instead he will surprise Taim accidently, and Taim will react with a fight. The fight will be short and messy, several of Logain's Asha'men will die, and i suspect probably either Toveine of Gabrielle. Taim will escape.

 

Gawyn - There will be a confrontation between Gawyn and Rand, and i believe it will end with Gawyn releasing his hatred finally. But honestly, im not sure. It has occured to me that the place Pevara may stash her Asha'men is near Gawyn, and that Gawyn may be able to channel, or that the darkfriend influences him against Rand, or any of a hundred other things. We simply dont know enough.

 

Actually, now i think about it, i think it likely that Gawyn learns of Rand's presense in the city before saving Egwene, his choice may be to save Egwene over persuing Rand. That makes sense to me.

 

Nynaeve - There will be a scene between Moiraine, Lan, Nynaeve and Myrelle. It's been coming for too long.

 

Moiraine - The obvious meeting with Rand. Probably one with Suine as well. Both should prove interesting.

 

Mesaana - if she was captured, with Tuon wielding the bracelet.

 

The Forsaken - Some sort of meeting will happen with them, possibly concurrent with the assault on Shayol Ghoul. Shaidar Haren will arrive with Taim, and possibly Alviarin in tow. There will be conciderable anger about the way events are turning.

 

PART THREE - The Strike on Shayol Ghoul.

 

So, we come to the final part. not all the forces of the light will be involved in the Strike. The forces in Amadacia will have been destroyed by now. In Arad Domon Rhuarc, Interulde, Aviendha, the Wise Ones, some Seanchan, as well as several others will engage the enemy once more, the battle will be fercocious, all out. In souther Shienar Egwene, Elayne, and several others including Tylee Khirgan, Galad, Berelain and the Borderlanders, and so forth. The ta'veren telepathy will play a part in this.

 

The people in the strike will be, to my mind, Rand, Cadsuane, Moiraine, Lan, Nynaeve, Logain, Alivia, Perrin and Mat. They will lead a small strike force of Maidens, Malkieri and likely some others, including Wolves. Its possible Perrin will be elsewhere, he is not needed, as such, but i see him being the one to take down Shaidar Haren. Mat will have the Horn, as brought to him by Verin. Logain's Asha'men will be there, as well as their Aes Sedai, and likely some of those sworn to serve Rand, as well.

 

The assault will be ferocious, the battle messy. People will die in all three places. During the course of this, Rand will find himself facing Moridin. They will fight, in the course of that fight Rand will sever Moridin's connection to the Dark One. The result will be that with both so near each other, and both drawing on saidin, that a bodyswap will occur. At the same time whatever Moridin wove with saidin will cause a cave in or a land slide, or something seperating the two. As i said i believe Perrin will be the one to face Shaidar Haren.

 

Elsewhere i see Aviendha dealing with Graendal, Egwene or perhaps Mat dealing with Aran'gar. I'm guessing Logain will get Taim, or perhaps Pevara. I'd be amused if some of the Forsaken just die in battle at the hands of randoms, I see Demandred for this one. I think Cadsuane, Nynaeve and Moiraine will deal with Moghedian and Cyndane. Though it may be Elayne that handles Cyndane if she is indeed hiding out as Sylvase.

 

It wont be too neat, however. RJ doesn't write like that. And it wont be all losses for the Shadow. I think Cadsuane will die, for sure. And likely Amys. Possibly Rhuarc as well. Lan, again i think is a certainty (more on this in a moment). Birgitte seems a goner. And likely many others beside.

 

Anyway, Rand will get into the Pit of Doom. Likely with the Choedan Kal (There will be some reason he didn't use it on Moridin... maybe Moridin caught him by surprise and it was swept out of his hands before he could. Whatever). He will do whatever it is he will do... there is too little information to predict that, though it doubt it will be simply re-sealing the bore.

 

EPILOGUE

 

Several months have passed. We are with Moridin. He is in rags, begging on the street, trying to avoid notice. Possibly he was burnt out. He is like the Fisher King. Blinded, without a hand, wounds in his eyes. He still feels hope that if he can avoid being found, he can be healed, and perhaps recover some of what he lost. He may have given up on the Shadow's cause, but he still feels the world is ripe for him. He reflects on the state of the world.

 

The world believes Rand dead. The forces he had gathered under him fractured. The Aiel returned to the Waste whilst Elayne made claims to Cairhein she was busy trying to consolidate. Darlin holds tear though there is opposition, and Mattin Stepeneos is back in power in Illian. The Aes Sedai do what they can, but they suffered losses themselves, and find themselves being forced to deal with Logain, the Wise Ones and the Windfinders. They no longer stand above the world.

 

In the north armies still hunt Shadowspawn, but there are still many thousands he can draw upon. Hundreds of thousands who escaped the failures in Arad Domon and Shienar. There are still darkfriends out there, though the Black Ajah and Asha'men darkfriends were nearly wiped out.

 

The Seanchan are in turmoil. The revelation about the sul'dam is out. Bethamin and Seta are natoriously seeking to become Aes Sedai, along with likely several others amongst the captured sul'dam. Others still are now insisting they be leashed. Uprest sweeps the lands they've conquered and they are having issues retaining control. There are whispers that marath'damane are not evil. Those that fought beside the Aes Sedai speak highly of them.

 

Moridin feels hope. Then he sees a woman stalking towards him. Alivia. He turns to run and finds himself facing Rand. They bundle him into a building. They reveal they have been tracking him. Moridin is defiant, swearing the return of the Shadow. Alivia kills him.

 

Rand - Will walk away from Moridin before Alivia kills him. He will be laughing and crying, and feeling free. She will ask him what he intends next, which i suspect, for a time, will be anonymity.

 

Alviarin - I believe Alviarin will survive the Last Battle as well, though she will be in hiding. She will feel bleak, but plot recovery.

 

Nynaeve - Nynaeve will have been a recluse since the end of the Last Battle due to Lan's loss. She will be much calmer in herself, much more clear-headed. She will be sitting in a small house, reflecting to herself. Soon she will go back out into the world. There was much to be done, and Egwene needed her, but for the moment she would have peace. In the long run i see her becoming the next Cadsuane... never belonging but a figure of power. This will be the last scene in the book.

 

 

Well... thats pretty much it. To the very few who bothered to read it, thank you. To the rest... i understand.

[RobertAlexWillis]

mostly because of you Robert! You knowledgeable bastard!

 

LOL ... we seem to be trading concessions today.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Now to analysis:

 

The overall arc is very plausible, as are many of the details ... we disagree on things like the bodyswap and the success (albeit limited) of the Shadowspawn in Tar Valon. But we've hashed those out elsewhere, no need to regurigitate them here.

 

I did notice a couple of things missing ... or maybe they're there and I just missed them ...

 

Where does Rand "face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger."? I didn't see any conflict between him and Egwene here. My guess is Egwene will have a harder time accepting the Seanchan deal than we think, and perhaps Rand makes the deal while the Seanchan are still occupying part of Tar Valon.

 

Or maybe Rand kills Gawyn ... we can hope :D

 

 

 

This one is picky, but ... you said:

 

Birgitte seems a goner.

 

If thats the case, what of Min's viewing about her having adventures with a younger Gaidal as well as an older one? It seems clear to me that Birgitte makes it.

 

 

 

It is interesting to me that you put the final Moridin-Rand confrontation in the epilogue. Although that is an outgrowth of the bodyswap ...

 

Also, Moiraine just kind of ... dissappeared from the story after being rescued ... I have a feeling she's going to basically save Rand's sanity in some sort of crisis (hence Min's viewing about her being crucial to Rand's success).

 

 

 

In any event .... I hope (as I'm pretty sure you do) that Jordan surprises us both!

[Rufae]

I like your predictions but you said that Setelle Anan will be healed. She can't be healed because she was burned out. Not severed as evidenced by the bracelet she tried from the a'dam. Burn outs cannot be healed since there is nothing there to heal.

[Luckers]

Where does Rand "face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger."? I didn't see any conflict between him and Egwene here. My guess is Egwene will have a harder time accepting the Seanchan deal than we think, and perhaps Rand makes the deal while the Seanchan are still occupying part of Tar Valon.

 

I did address this. Specifically in the beginning of part two, Egwene is furious at Rand for agreeing to allow the Seanchan to retain already captured damane. There will be a confrontation based on this.

 

But yes, essentially what you say is what i think. And that the crux of that disagreement will come out in that meeting.

 

Or maybe Rand kills Gawyn ... we can hope

 

Lol. He is kind of whiney.

 

This one is picky, but ... you said:

 

Quote:

Birgitte seems a goner.

 

 

If thats the case, what of Min's viewing about her having adventures with a younger Gaidal as well as an older one? It seems clear to me that Birgitte makes it.

 

Which could have to do with her past lives. She's dealt with a young Gaidal as often as an old Gaidal. I just see her dying... no evidence, but our friends have to do some dying. I see her being one of them.

 

It is interesting to me that you put the final Moridin-Rand confrontation in the epilogue. Although that is an outgrowth of the bodyswap ...

 

I've always maintained this particular issue. I've always seen Rand and Alivia approaching Moridin--decrepit in Rands failing body--in the Epilogue. The Fisher, the way Rand has accumulated injuries, the beggar visions... i've always seen this, and i think it rather iconic.

 

Also, Moiraine just kind of ... dissappeared from the story after being rescued ... I have a feeling she's going to basically save Rand's sanity in some sort of crisis (hence Min's viewing about her being crucial to Rand's success).

 

It's true. Thats in part because i grew tired towards the second part. Also its because the part Moiraine will play will be subtle. She will be there alot, and her being there will be massive, but it wont be directly instrumental to progression. You'll note i also ignored Semirhage, Mesaana, Fain and several others... not because they wont be massive parts, but because they will be joining parts, that add to the flow. I wasn't attempting to write the book. Just a summary.

 

I like your predictions but you said that Setelle Anan will be healed. She can't be healed because she was burned out. Not severed as evidenced by the bracelet she tried from the a'dam. Burn outs cannot be healed since there is nothing there to heal.

 

The issue with the bracelet occured because Joline tried to move. Her symptoms were that of a damane that tried to move a bracelet without it being complete with a sul'dam. Mogehdian's a'dam was altered to allow her to move without being complete, therefore we have no basis for any deductions based on the lack of pain experienced by Moghedian when Suine wore the bracelet versus when Setelle wore it.

 

Moreover given that Cyndane was healed we have direct evidence supporting the fact that a burned out channeler can be healed. Though yes, there is some evidence against in that burned out women cannot sense the source at all whilst stilled women can. Certainly there is argument for either side. I side with the idea that healing is possible based on Cyndane. In either case Joline is not evidence one way or the other.

[Rufae]

The bracelet test that Setelle Anan failed was because she was burned out. When she putthe bracelet on, she felt nothing. If someone is simply stilled, they can still since the other person's emotions per Siuan and LeAnn's usage with Moggy. Since she felt nothing at all, then that means she is burnt out.

 

Joline did try to move and the reaction that she had was as if the bracelet was hanging on a peg (i.e. no one was using it). This further supports the idea that she was burnt out.

 

I believe in a Question of the Week, RJ confirmed that a burned out channeler cannot be healed, but I would have to research that to find the quote for you.

 

The example with Cyndane is a little different because Lanfear actually died in addition to the loss of the power. By dying, she was able to regain her ability although there appears to be a restriction on her strength. If that is a shield similar to Asmodean's or an actual loss of strength is unknown atm.

[Luckers]

The bracelet test that Setelle Anan failed was because she was burned out. When she putthe bracelet on, she felt nothing. If someone is simply stilled, they can still since the other person's emotions per Siuan and LeAnn's usage with Moggy. Since she felt nothing at all, then that means she is burnt out.

 

 

Again, sorry buddy, but its not so simple as your unilateral statements make out. There is every chance that Setelle felt something. At first she mentioned nothing because she likely felt it was normal, and Joline started screaming, at which it became obvious that she could not act as sul'dam and any need for her to speak up was gone, indeed she shows actively that she is attempting to hide her past from Joline and the other sisters, so more then simply a lack of insentive to mention it, she in fact has incentive to not mention it.

 

Your arrogance is disconcerting. This is an issue that has been widely examined by some very intelligent people, and no conclusive decision has been reached. There are arguments for both sides, and i concede that... or do you know something those people do not? Can you prove that Setelle did not feel anything, or that her not mentioning it in light of the screaming and the conclusive proof that she would not work as a sul'dam is indicative that she felt nothing? I don't see how.

 

Joline did try to move and the reaction that she had was as if the bracelet was hanging on a peg (i.e. no one was using it). This further supports the idea that she was burnt out.

 

I'm sorry... why are you arguing for her being burnt out. It's twice now you've mentioned it. Setelle Anan is most likely Martine Jenata. We KNOW she was burnt out. And as i said there is evidence for burning out being more complete in that burn outs cant sense the power at all, whilst stilled women can. That is not saying it cannot be healed, though i would concede it evidence enough to suggest the theory.

 

And yes, the bracelet did react that way. Seanchan a'dam have that built into them as a security measure. I'm sorry, i fail to see the point. Do you have some evidence suggesting that it would not react that way to a stilled woman as opposed to a burnt out woman? Certainly in a stilled woman the circle isn't complete either--we know this from Suine. She is not linked with Moghedian, and cannot channel--and we know that unless the circle is complete the bracelet cannot be moved without causing imense pain to the damane. Logically, therefore, if a stilled woman wore the bracelet of a Seanchan a'dam, and moved it, it would cause the same pain we witness when Setelle wears the bracelet. So yeah... i dont see the point.

 

I believe in a Question of the Week, RJ confirmed that a burned out channeler cannot be healed, but I would have to research that to find the quote for you.

 

I know that he did not, but do your research. I dont mind being proven wrong. Indeed, being proven wrong is as much fun as being proven right when it leads to a continuation in the theory past a point of contention. Thats my pretentious way of saying ill have no hard feelings if i am wrong.

 

The example with Cyndane is a little different because Lanfear actually died in addition to the loss of the power. By dying, she was able to regain her ability although there appears to be a restriction on her strength. If that is a shield similar to Asmodean's or an actual loss of strength is unknown atm.

 

Actually it isn't. There are alternative theories, but the theory suggesting healing is itself rock solid. Additionally there is no support for your statement that Lanfears death contributed to her regaining her ability to channel. Moreover, in Aran'gar we have proof that the ability to channel remains constant accross the mortality line, which directly contradicts such an idea.

 

The most likely path is that upon being reborn the Shadow, having been made aware of Nynaeve's weave by Moghedian, or indeed just general darkfriend chit chat, sent for a Black Aes Sedai who healed her. There is considerable evidence for this, and about the only real contention with this particular theory that im aware of (which is not to say there arn't alternative theories) is based on Suine and Leane's strength decrease, though there are arguments against that too. If you wish to discuss that, we should probably start a new thread.

 

On topic though, we also have Sashelle and the others. Their abilities were crushed in fists of spirit which is directly at odds with Nynaeve description of stilling, and the cutting effect. Their abilities were... expunged, not severed. In that they bare much more similarity with burn outs then stilled women. And they were healed. Again suggesting the possibility.

 

So we have no evidence suggesting burning out cant be healed. The more complete nature of Burn Outs is suggestive, yet we have Cyndane who was burnt out, and Sashelle and the other two who by discription seemingly were also burnt out, excepting that it was done intentionally by someone. Both are now healed.

 

So yes, i concede the possibility that Setelle cannot be healed, though i doubt it. She has been built up too much with Tuon for RJ not to use that. It would also mean that Moiraine would not be healable and again, i dont see that. I do not see enough for your unilateral dismissal. Especially since you have based it on a flawed comparison. The seanchan a'dam and Elaynes a'dam are different devices.

[Beckon]

When Moggy and Cyndane drop in on Graendal, Graendal feels Cyndane's strength and notes to herself that Cyndane is stronger than she is. She also notes that that had been unusual even among men in the AoL and very rare indeed for a woman. Mesaana tells us Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear was. It's a real change. There would be no point to a shield that still left her stronger than Graendal.

 

The a'dam that was used with Moggy was not identical to a Seanchan a'dam. As Luckers said Moggy was able to move around while nobody was wearing the bracelet. There are several instances of Elayne and Nynaeve arguing about actually wearing the bracelet because Elayne sometimes sticks it in her belt pouch. Moggy is not inhibited by it though and is able to perform her chores. The fact that Moggy's a'dam is different from an actual Seanchan made one makes any comparison between the effects of the two rather dubious.

 

Additionally, Suian and Leane didn't try to make Moggy move while they wore the bracelet so we don't know whether that would have worked or not.

 

As for healing being burned out, Nynaeve has never studied Setalle so there's really no basis for assuming it's impossible. How the a'dam works or doesn't work has no bearing on healing stilling.

[Rufae]

My arrogance? All because I have an opion which I think is correct makes it arrogance? Sounds as if your feelings got hurt that someone disagreed with you.

 

If I am wrong then I will admit it, but there is no need to insult someone for simply disagreeing with you.

 

FYI, I kep arguing for her being burnt out because you kept arguing that she wasn't by impying that she was really lying to everyone and she did feel the power.

[Guest Barmacral]

The arrogance thing is insulting a person's ego... not intelligence...

[Elwinn Taron]

WOW!! I am very impressed, Luckers. This is very well thought out, and you expressed yourself well and clearly. Your dedication and attention to detail, considering you meant it only as a synopsis, is inspired.

 

The fact that my own theories are totally different does not diminish my admiration at all. How fast do you type?! That would have taken me hours and hours!Thank you for taking the time to share.

[Barnabas]

good effort luckers, maybe too much though, should have gone out this weekend or something instead:P however, u said that u left some people out as they were joining roles as such, which i agree with, but out of curiousity, what are your thoughts on fains role? the little guys had too much buildup through the series not to do something.

and to rufae, i think the arrogance bit comes into you making a statement, which isnt completely backed up, and then making it sound like a foregone conclusion that its right when its been debated back and forward for a long time without either side really coming to a conclusive "victory"

[El Dude]

I enjoyed it. I could see several/many of those points taking place, but I would be severely disappointed if they all did. Mainly because I would have already read aMoL without getting all of the detail.

[RobertAlexWillis]

She's dealt with a young Gaidal as often as an old Gaidal.

 

Again, being picky on a small point, she actually has not. She worries specifically, before Min's viewing, that she won't be able to get with Gaidal because she has always been the younger one before. In TSR ch 52 she says that she knows her time is growing close when she can no longer find him in Tel'ara'rhiod (because he is spun out first). In TFoH ch 36 she worries that he won't love her because she is so much older. It may have happened a very few times before, but if it has, she doesn't remember them. I think Min's viewing was her "get out of Tarmon Gaidon free" card.

 

Also, for everyone arguing about Setalle Anan, we have no conclusive proof that she cannot be Healed. The only time we've seen an a'dam on someone stilled was when Nynaeve was working with Siuan and Leane, and they were using an a'dam that had the "don't move" function disabled (or not present at all). The fact that Joline moved means there are multiple different variables in the two situations, and so nothing conclusive can be determined.

 

Personally, the fact that Irgain, Ronaille, and Sashalle were Healed lends me to believe that Setalle can be Healed. Their experience was much more akin to being burnt out than stilled. The fact that there is not much of a functional difference between the two leads me to believe that the solution for one can at least be adapted to the solution for the other.

[Beckon]

I think they're just different degrees of the same thing. You could say, amputate someone's leg at the knee (stilling) or at the hip (burning out). Either way you can still use a prosthesus (healing). One is just more complicated than the other.

[Luckers]

Rufae, for the record, i have no problem with you disagreeing with me. It was the way you did it that irritated me, stating it as absolute fact when there is no evidence to support that strength of degree. Yes, i agree there is a viable argument in suggesting that Burn Outs cant be healed, and ive always acknowledged that. It wasn't your position, it was your method.

 

Additionally, i never said Setelle felt the power, nor that she wasn't Burnt Out. Not once. I said that given what we know we cannot say that she did not feel Joline's sensations since the screaming immediately proved that she could not act as an sul'dam, and that following that she would not have drawn attention to herself by admitting to what she felt when she wore the bracelet, if indeed she felt anything, which i am not saying she did.

 

I would be interested to know where exactly i supposedly suggested her feeling the power and lying about it? Or lying at all. She concealed her nature as a Burnt Out Aes Sedai, she never lied about it.

 

You didn't answer my questions? What of Sashelle and the others? What of Moiraine? What of the different natures between Moghedian's a'dam and the Seanchan a'dam, and the effect that has on any comparison between the two.

 

The fact is that yes, Burning Out is different, and more complete then stilling. But this does not mean it is complete. There is evidence suggesting it can possibly be healed, and there is no proof saying that it cant. Certainly not enough for your grandiose statements.

 

WOW!! I am very impressed, Luckers. This is very well thought out, and you expressed yourself well and clearly. Your dedication and attention to detail, considering you meant it only as a synopsis, is inspired.

 

The fact that my own theories are totally different does not diminish my admiration at all. How fast do you type?! That would have taken me hours and hours!Thank you for taking the time to share.

 

Blushes. Thanks mate, much appreciated. I wrote that in about an hour. It originally stemmed from my desire to see if there was a way the story could progress, include what needed to occur, and end, within the range of one book.

 

good effort luckers, maybe too much though, should have gone out this weekend or something instead

 

Lol. I wrote that on monday... i was home sick, and bored out of my head. Still, yes, im a nerd. :p

 

however, u said that u left some people out as they were joining roles as such, which i agree with, but out of curiousity, what are your thoughts on fains role?

 

Well i left out Fain mostly because i have no idea. Fain has always represented chaos and unpredictability to me. The only sustainable goal we know him to have is killing Rand, and i don't see him achieving that. The other tie-in we have is the long running enmity between Slayer and Fain.

 

Curiously, now Slayer seems to be hunting Rand, and we all know how Fain reacts to that. So i could potentially see a confrontation between Slayer and Fain in the last book. But again, we simply cant predict Fain.

 

Quote:

She's dealt with a young Gaidal as often as an old Gaidal.

 

 

Again, being picky on a small point, she actually has not. She worries specifically, before Min's viewing, that she won't be able to get with Gaidal because she has always been the younger one before. In TSR ch 52 she says that she knows her time is growing close when she can no longer find him in Tel'ara'rhiod (because he is spun out first). In TFoH ch 36 she worries that he won't love her because she is so much older. It may have happened a very few times before, but if it has, she doesn't remember them. I think Min's viewing was her "get out of Tarmon Gaidon free" card.

 

Sorry, i meant that she would have been around a young Gaidal in the past, not that she would have been older. They must have had adventures as youths. Whilst i concede its likely what you suggest, im just saying that it seems possible Min's vision shows various incarnations of Gaidal... there must have been lives when he died young, and therefore appears young, even if she was even younger at the time.

 

Personally, the fact that Irgain, Ronaille, and Sashalle were Healed lends me to believe that Setalle can be Healed. Their experience was much more akin to being burnt out than stilled. The fact that there is not much of a functional difference between the two leads me to believe that the solution for one can at least be adapted to the solution for the other.

 

Irgain and Ronaille! Those were the names i was trying to think of. Thanks. And i agree.

[RobertAlexWillis]

there must have been lives when he died young, and therefore appears young, even if she was even younger at the time.

 

Yes, but Min's vision was couched in comparative terms. That is, she saw Birgitte having adventures with Gaidal when he was younger than her at the time of the adventure, as well as older than her at the time of the adventure. Since this is the only spinning we know of (or that Birgitte remembered, even in T'A'R) in which she is older than Gaidal, she must have some adventures with him in this spinning. Since he's a very young child, unless they're daycare adventures, she'll have to live through Tarmon Gaidon to have them.

 

As I say, its a minor point though.

[Luckers]

All that Min said is that she see her having adventures with an ugly older man and an ugly younger man. If it is comparative then both refer to her now. It would imply concurrancy. I think rather that she was seeing Gaidal in various incarnations at the time Birgitte was having adventures with him.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Besides, those multitudes of images and auras flashed by too quickly for her to make out any clearly, but she was certain they indicated more adventures than a woman could have in one lifetime. Strangely, some were connected to an ugly man who was older than she, and others to an ugly man who was much younger, yet somehow Min knew that they were the same man."

 

(WH ch 12)

 

The key to that viewing is the word "Strangely". If the "older" and "younger" represented a comparison to Birgittes current age, it wouldn't be strange at all. All men start younger than Birgitte, and many grow to be older. It is only "strange" if the comparison is "older at the time of the adventure" and "younger at the time of the adventure". I can't really diagram the sentences for you here, but thats what it says. Not that Gaidal just happened to be old for some of the adventures, but that in some, he was older than Birgitte, and in some, he was younger than Birgitte, when the adventure occurs.

 

Given the other chapters I referenced, the ones where Gaidal is comparatively younger almost certainly reference this spinning when she was ripped out. So, Birgitte makes it.

 

Which, with the "three women on a boat" crap virtually ensures that Elayne makes it.

 

-sigh-

[Infestra]

Nice work Luckers.

 

Just out of curiosity, and to switch topics (sorry), I am curious if you could elaborate on the Logain and Taim showdown.

 

Does this, in you opinion, coincide with Elaida's foretelling of the Black Tower being destroyed and sisters walking amongst its ruins? The tower feeling the Amyrlin's wrath and whatnot?

 

Peace! Truth to tell, I am most curious about that scene and its unfolding. The reason being, I am curious to see how the different factions/alliances among Aes Sedai and Asha'man will react and what the catalyst will be to unite them for TG.

 

The rebels, the tower, Logain's crew, Taim's crew, those who swore fealty to Rand, etc...

 

The one thing I see RJ throwing in there is the "turning" of Aes Sedai. The fact that 13 fades and Black Ajah can turn an Aes Sedai to the shadow has been referenced too much not to actually take place.

 

It may be possible that Taim (a new forsaken/dreadlord?) has been and will continue to be the recruiter, and I believe he has been since Rand gave him free reign.

 

I'm actually up in the air about your breakdown of Pevara. After Taim accepts the proposal at the end of KoD, we are left with the entire room laughing at Taim's comment "Let the Lord of Chaos rule", I see the malevolent laughter as a sign of what will happen to those sisters who chose to bond with Taims crew.

 

However, I may just be out to lunch as well. :lol:

[Luckers]

The key to that viewing is the word "Strangely". If the "older" and "younger" represented a comparison to Birgittes current age, it wouldn't be strange at all. All men start younger than Birgitte, and many grow to be older. It is only "strange" if the comparison is "older at the time of the adventure" and "younger at the time of the adventure". I can't really diagram the sentences for you here, but thats what it says. Not that Gaidal just happened to be old for some of the adventures, but that in some, he was older than Birgitte, and in some, he was younger than Birgitte, when the adventure occurs.

 

I disagree. The sentence merely supports that Birgitte has had adventures with various ugly men, some that appear to min to be young, some that appear to min to be old. The 'strangely' comes from the connection that both were the same man.

 

And no, i was not saying that in some he was younger then birgitte, i was saying that at the time of some of their adventures he was young, which is what Min is seeing. At those times its entirely possible that she was younger.

 

There is nothing in the entire sentence that directs the idea of birgittes current life. Moreover the progression directly implies that the copious amount of adventure in which this man, who at the time of some adventures was old, and at the time of some adventures was young, was involved exceeds the ability of one lifetime. It directly implies that some of the adventures, both at times when Gaidal was young and old, must be of other lifetimes.

 

Honestly Robert, you've made a house out of straw. Min's viewing only states that she sees Birgitte having had adventures with a single man. In some of those adventures that man was young, in some he was old. Not younger, or older. Just that the man himself was young or old at the time of various adventures. Which makes sense... i mean Birgitte and Gaidal must have had adeventures when they were young, in some of their lifetimes, and they must have had adventures when they were old in some lifetimes. Seriously... i really dont see any wriggle room.

 

Just out of curiosity, and to switch topics (sorry), I am curious if you could elaborate on the Logain and Taim showdown.

 

Does this, in you opinion, coincide with Elaida's foretelling of the Black Tower being destroyed and sisters walking amongst its ruins? The tower feeling the Amyrlin's wrath and whatnot?

 

Yes, i believe that this confrontation will be the cause of the Black Tower being rent in blood and fire. It should be noted, however, that being rent does not mean being destroyed. Moreover the 'sisters walking its ground' is unconnected. Sisters have been walking its grounds since Path of Daggers.

 

The Tower was never to feel the Amyrlin's wrath. The prophecy was that the Dragon would know the Amyrlin's anger. This i believe is seperate, and will relate to Rands alliance with the seanchan. I believe that Egwene will be furious that part of his agreement was allowing the Seanchan to keep those Aes Sedai they had already leashed.

 

The one thing I see RJ throwing in there is the "turning" of Aes Sedai. The fact that 13 fades and Black Ajah can turn an Aes Sedai to the shadow has been referenced too much not to actually take place.

 

It may have already. Some suggest that Sheriam has been forced.

 

I'm actually up in the air about your breakdown of Pevara. After Taim accepts the proposal at the end of KoD, we are left with the entire room laughing at Taim's comment "Let the Lord of Chaos rule", I see the malevolent laughter as a sign of what will happen to those sisters who chose to bond with Taims crew.

 

Certainly those darkfriends will play a part, but i dont see it being as dire as Taim makes out. That man is not exactly the master of subtlty.

[RobertAlexWillis]

And no, i was not saying that in some he was younger then birgitte, i was saying that at the time of some of their adventures he was young, which is what Min is seeing. At those times its entirely possible that she was younger.

 

I know what you were saying. The syntax disagrees. Why would it be "strange" that the same man could grow old? Its only "strange" if that same man is older and younger relative to the same person. Being older or younger relative to ones self is not "strange" its called "life".

 

In some of those adventures that man was young, in some he was old. Not younger, or older.

 

Did you miss the part where I quoted the viewing? The words "older" and "younger" were specifically used. Not "old" and "young". "Older" and "younger". Its purely comparative, and Birgitte is the only object of the comparative adjective.

 

Min did not think: "Strangely, some were connected to an ugly man who was old, and others to an ugly man who was young, yet somehow Min knew that they were the same man."

 

She instead thought: "Strangely, some were connected to an ugly man who was older than she, and others to an ugly man who was much younger, yet somehow Min knew that they were the same man."

 

Who is the "she"? Birgitte. Its not "strange" for Min to see people at older stages of their life in her visions. It is very strange for Min to see the same man "older" and "younger" relative to the same person in her visions.

 

The "strange"ness and syntax are purely comparative.

 

This, in combination with what Birgitte clearly regards as an unusual, possibly unique situation in which she has been ripped out in a way that makes her older than Gaidal only in this incarnation is more than a proverbial "house of straw".

 

(Purely as a side note, I've helped build houses out of grasses and straws which have endured mulitple typhoons and flooding. :D )

[Mat is the Boss]

Personally, the fact that Irgain, Ronaille, and Sashalle were Healed lends me to believe that Setalle can be Healed. Their experience was much more akin to being burnt out than stilled.

 

Didn`t Rand think in a POV(I`ll try to find it) that he had stilled the three Aes Sedai?

Egwene thought about stilling as making a shield razor sharp, while Rand crushed them with fists of Spirit. I just assumed that it`s done differently with saidin and saidar, like Travelling.

Is there anything that hints that the three Aes Sedai were burnt out?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Didn`t Rand think in a POV(I`ll try to find it) that he had stilled the three Aes Sedai?

Egwene thought about stilling as making a shield razor sharp, while Rand crushed them with fists of Spirit. I just assumed that it`s done differently with saidin and saidar, like Travelling.

Is there anything that hints that the three Aes Sedai were burnt out?

 

The problem is that their situation seems to fall somewhere between "burnt out" and "stilled". Again, this isn't an area thats been well researched. When Rand has playtime with Egwene and Elayne, he seems to "cut" them off from the Source the same way the women do. However, that is, of course, just shielding. We've never seen a male intentionally "still" someone.

 

The "crushing" with fists of Spirit seems more elemental. Unfortunately, we don't have enough information to be certain in either direction. The main thing to establish here is that we have not seen conclusive evidence either way. It's my opinion that being "burnt out" can be Healed.

 

What I am firmly refuting is that Setalle Anan's experience with Joline and an a'dam is proof that she cannot be Healed. Its not.

[Beckon]

I don't see where she'd think it was strange if she saw a bunch of adventures and the guy involved was different ages in some of them. Of course he's going to age as Robert said. Frankly I don't see why, if she's certain about it being more than one lifetime's worth why it would be strange for the guy to be older than Birgitte in some and younger than Birgitte in others. If it's obviously different lives then who says they need to have the same relative age? Min has taken a liking to all Rand's dense books on philosophy so I don't think that would befuddle her.

 

Maybe the strangeness is that, despite the guy's variable age relative to Birgitte, she knows it's the same guy.