WOT Season 1 and Beyond

[DaddyFinn]

https://www.cbr.com/the-wheel-of-times-least-popular-love-interests-wont-be-cut/

 

"Each of those characters goes on to have very important relationships, Egwene with Gawyn, and then Perrin with Faile," he continued. "And so those relationships, we will also take those, those are two big relationships that are really foregrounded in the books, and so we'll take them and really run with them too. I think any real romantic relationship that we do have in the foreground, we want to use."

[Skipp]

Just now, DaddyFinn said:

https://www.cbr.com/the-wheel-of-times-least-popular-love-interests-wont-be-cut/

 

"Each of those characters goes on to have very important relationships, Egwene with Gawyn, and then Perrin with Faile," he continued. "And so those relationships, we will also take those, those are two big relationships that are really foregrounded in the books, and so we'll take them and really run with them too. I think any real romantic relationship that we do have in the foreground, we want to use."

Funny that I had read this article but completely blocked Gawyns name from my memory.

[DaddyFinn]

1 minute ago, Skipp said:

Funny that I had read this article but completely blocked Gawyns name from my memory.

They can redeem him, for sure ?

[Lethira the second]

53 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

It looked like Egwene didn't stab him in a fatal spot. Yes, there is a large artery in that region but she probably missed it. No big deal. They wouldn't waste a good villain like Valda so soon

 

I loved the guy playing Valda, he was one of the highlights in terms of performance.  No, I absolutely don't want to see him wasted as a character.  I get what you're saying that she *might* have missed the artery, but the constant use of '-you think X is dead but guess what, they're not' is already overused.

 

1 minute ago, Skipp said:

Funny that I had read this article but completely blocked Gawyns name from my memory.

To be fair, most of us do that!

[Lethira the second]

1 minute ago, DaddyFinn said:

They can redeem him, for sure ?

Now that is something I would like to see done.

[DaddyFinn]

Just now, Lethira the second said:

the constant use of '-you think X is dead but guess what, they're not' is already overused.

Agreed. I really hope they stop doing that so much unless it's from the books

[Jaysen Gore]

2 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

They can redeem him, for sure ?

For what? A blue plate special at the Queen's Blessing? He's not worth much...

[Spiritweaver1]

17 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

Let's try this again...

 

I sincerely doubt that this series will go much further than what's already "in the can."

There will be a grand hullabaloo surrounding the lotr series, and wot will be looking rather small and so...unnoticed it will likely be quietly cancelled.

Ah but that assumes they will do a good job of the LOTR.  The good news there is that they can, for the most part, tell their own story.  Hopefully they will have a better writing team.   I am on record on this site as agreeing with you except I think there may be a season 3.   

[Jaysen Gore]

10 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Ah but that assumes they will do a good job of the LOTR.  The good news there is that they can, for the most part, tell their own story.  Hopefully they will have a better writing team.   I am on record on this site as agreeing with you except I think there may be a season 3.   

I think you are greatly overestimating the ability to tell a good LOTR story in the second age, until the very end.  All of the threats in it are political / personal and the society is insular. It's basically going to be Rome, with the occasion trip to Middle Earth to check on the plantations (no legit threats in ME), or visit from an elf.  Now, I bet you could do a kick ass 2-3 season story of Sauron / Al-Pharakoan / Earendil / Akallabeth, but before that? I got nothing

 

The thing for me with the WoT property is that if we get Season 3, we get Rhuidean and the Battle of Edmond's Field, and if we get Rhuidean, we get a season 4, which will be the Wells. From there, the rest of the series is almost guaranteed.

[Lethira the second]

13 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

The thing for me with the WoT property is that if we get Season 3, we get Rhuidean and the Battle of Edmond's Field, and if we get Rhuidean, we get a season 4, which will be the Wells. From there, the rest of the series is almost guaranteed.

 

 

If they do them justice! 

 

I'm hopeful lessons will be learned from Season 1, but is it enough to get things on track?

[EmreY]

A question to the forum.

 

Should someone lose their hand?  Or eye?

[Lethira the second]

Hand, no! Unless they manage to carve their own path deeper it will look like another thing they're copying from GoT. Like the "wolves" and so many other things.

 

Eye, yes but I hope that is not played out as a redemption arc.  

[DojoToad]

3 hours ago, Lethira the second said:

 

 

If they do them justice! 

 

I'm hopeful lessons will be learned from Season 1, but is it enough to get things on track?

I fear not.  Not with the same writers and showrunner.

 

But hope springs eternal.  I'll keep monitoring the forums for signs of the show being almost dead, but surprise - miraculous healing bomb!!

[Spiritweaver1]

Well okay so how about your collective opinions on the following story arcs.  In or out and why?

 

Rand in the box and especially the battle of the Wells

 

Abduction of Faile and her attendants and the snow slog.

 

Elayne/Nyn et al Traveling with the circus

 

Matt/Tuon et al traveling with the same circus. 

 

Will we see Elayne's struggles/machinations to get the throne of Andor? 

 

Do we see the Seanchan as total big bad (murdering little girls on the beach) or do they bring peace and stability to where they conquer. 

 

 

 

 

[DaddyFinn]

18 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Well okay so how about your collective opinions on the following story arcs.  In or out and why?

 

Rand in the box and especially the battle of the Wells

Definitely. It is the turning point of Rand's arc IMO.

 

Abduction of Faile and her attendants and the snow slog.

Either cut completely or greatly reduced in length. Perrin must have something to do.

 

Elayne/Nyn et al Traveling with the circus

Could be kept if it's just for a few episodes. Something unusual and cheerish for the series. Hugh Jackman as Valan Luca, anyone?

 

18 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Matt/Tuon et al traveling with the same circus. 

My memory is very vague on this so can't comment.

 

Will we see Elayne's struggles/machinations to get the throne of Andor? 

I would like that. Just make it more interesting somehow.

 

18 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Do we see the Seanchan as total big bad (murdering little girls on the beach) or do they bring peace and stability to where they conquer. 

They destroyed big parts of Ebou Dar when they arrived and after that came the peace and stability. Falme was taken more peacefully IIRC.

 

 

 

Sorry, I'm not good at creating long answers and reasons.

[VooDooNut]

11 hours ago, EmreY said:

A question to the forum.

 

Should someone lose their hand?  Or eye?

Yes, and yes.

 

Rand losing his hand is just the icing on the <expletive>cake that is pre-Veins Of Gold for Rand. Plus it's so cool to see him have to relearn the sword and have all that confidence taken away so late in his arc.

 

Mat needs to lose the eye. He's too lucky far too often. And a deal is a deal.

[Jaysen Gore]

1 hour ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Well okay so how about your collective opinions on the following story arcs.  In or out and why?

 

Rand in the box and especially the battle of the Wells

 

Abduction of Faile and her attendants and the snow slog.

 

Elayne/Nyn et al Traveling with the circus

 

Matt/Tuon et al traveling with the same circus. 

 

Will we see Elayne's struggles/machinations to get the throne of Andor? 

 

Do we see the Seanchan as total big bad (murdering little girls on the beach) or do they bring peace and stability to where they conquer. 

 

 

 

 

My bet is we see all of those in the series, but some will be greatly reduced:

1 - as is; will actually be more brutal in a visual medium, and will eliminate the Shaido

2 - I'm thinking this will be Masema, not the Shaido, and much shorter than the books, a 1 season thing

3 - yup, although thankfully, it'll only be for a couple of episodes

4 - see 3

5 - the only one I have doubts about, but they may give her 1/2 a season or so

6 - nope, they won't be one dimensional; too much blow back about Mat's prophecy if they were

[flinn]

 Why would the cut out the Faile/Perrin slog.. didnt we just get an entire season of Perrin slog?

 

 Scene 1 Perrin mopes.

 Scene 2 Perrin mopes.

 Scene 3 Perrin mopes.

etc. etc.

[Jaysen Gore]

9 hours ago, flinn said:

 Why would the cut out the Faile/Perrin slog.. didnt we just get an entire season of Perrin slog?

 

 Scene 1 Perrin mopes.

 Scene 2 Perrin mopes.

 Scene 3 Perrin mopes.

etc. etc.

Maybe this was part of rearranging the cards in the deck - they moved Perrin's wandering around with nothing to do for a season to season 1, instead of say, season 6. I'm kind of okay with him being in the background this year, since I know it's part of smoothing his character arc out so he doesn't evolve at all for 1/2 the series in the middle. Especially if we get a whole bunch of Wolfbrother stuff next season.

[Skipp]

8 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

 Especially if we get a whole bunch of Wolfbrother stuff next season.

Here's hoping!  I loved how the showed Mins visions so I hope they get just as creative with Perrins Wolfdreams and the such.

[Jaysen Gore]

Inspired by @Skipp 's post, and one from @ashi in the full season review, here's a new one. I've been kind of improving about how I feel about the show being so drastically skewed towards women at the start.  Because if you think about the character arcs of the girls (as opposed to their plot arcs), they are basically over mid series, and while they have Capstone (good word) character moments later, they aren't moments of growth, they are moments of affirmation.

 

When Nynaeve breaks her block (thanks Moggy - we'd have that out of you no matter how loud you scream indeed), and she joyfully channels, that's it, she is herself, and exactly who she is at the end of AMOL. Her being raised is a great affirmation of that, but it isn't a change, it is an acceptance

 

For Egwene, I see her becoming completely herself when she continues to meet her toh after being summoned to Salidar. For all the big stuff she does after that point, she does not change as a character. Her moment of affirmation is then her fight with Mesaana in the Tower, but it is the core strength of the Aiel that takes the Seat, and the Amyrlin who does the rest .

 

Elayne does mature and settle down some, which is to the good. Aviendha's arc is wonderful, but kind of understated. The other secondary women - Tuon, Min, Siuan, Moiraine - don't really have character growth arcs at all.  I like Egeanin's, but I'm not even sure we're getting her.

 

OTOH, barring disaster, the boys should dominate a lot more of the latter part of the series from a growth perspective, and the culmination of their character arcs are a lot more visually spectacular. Of course the ultimate growth arc is Rand's with Veins of Gold, but Perrin's forging the hammer and allowing the banners to stay up, and Mat and Thom - who I assume will be really anti AS at some point - rescuing Moiraine are really the last major character growth moments. Even the final character growth moment in the entire series is a male's - Logain.

 

With all that, it's why I can see them putting so much more emphasis on the girls at the start - to make their mid-series climaxes (ugh - no double entendre intended) as impactful as possible. I'm not saying I trust this production team to pull it off, but if they are looking at telling the series as a single story, this could be a big  reason why.

[Jaysen Gore]

17 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

My biggest concern regarding S2 not solving the problems of S1 is the fact that they are going to still have Moiraine as main character, which again will drain minutes from EF5 ( and in particular EF3 since they splitted them...so either you rapidly bring them together again or you will need 3 separate subplots running).

So, we will again see the book plots heavily trimmed to give space and time to made-up plots to exploit Pike star-power

 

I expect there will be 4 plots running for most of the season, with the bulk given to Perrin and Egwene. Rand and Moiraine will then have separate plots. Mat will get tied into one of them - either Rand's or Egwene's, I'm guessing - mid season.

[Cauthonfan4]

7 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

With all that, it's why I can see them putting so much more emphasis on the girls at the start - to make their mid-series climaxes (ugh - no double entendre intended) as impactful as possible. I'm not saying I trust this production team to pull it off, but if they are looking at telling the series as a single story, this could be a big  reason why.

See here is the problem - you're operating from the assumption of the books.

but we're already wildly deviated from that. Nothing I have seen shows me that this story is even going to follow the source material at all. 

If we were following the books I could absolutely agree with what you are saying and support it.

But we have already deviated from that.

[VooDooNut]

9 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Inspired by @Skipp 's post, and one from @ashi in the full season review, here's a new one. I've been kind of improving about how I feel about the show being so drastically skewed towards women at the start.  Because if you think about the character arcs of the girls (as opposed to their plot arcs), they are basically over mid series, and while they have Capstone (good word) character moments later, they aren't moments of growth, they are moments of affirmation.

 

When Nynaeve breaks her block (thanks Moggy - we'd have that out of you no matter how loud you scream indeed), and she joyfully channels, that's it, she is herself, and exactly who she is at the end of AMOL. Her being raised is a great affirmation of that, but it isn't a change, it is an acceptance

 

For Egwene, I see her becoming completely herself when she continues to meet her toh after being summoned to Salidar. For all the big stuff she does after that point, she does not change as a character. Her moment of affirmation is then her fight with Mesaana in the Tower, but it is the core strength of the Aiel that takes the Seat, and the Amyrlin who does the rest .

 

Elayne does mature and settle down some, which is to the good. Aviendha's arc is wonderful, but kind of understated. The other secondary women - Tuon, Min, Siuan, Moiraine - don't really have character growth arcs at all.  I like Egeanin's, but I'm not even sure we're getting her.

 

OTOH, barring disaster, the boys should dominate a lot more of the latter part of the series from a growth perspective, and the culmination of their character arcs are a lot more visually spectacular. Of course the ultimate growth arc is Rand's with Veins of Gold, but Perrin's forging the hammer and allowing the banners to stay up, and Mat and Thom - who I assume will be really anti AS at some point - rescuing Moiraine are really the last major character growth moments. Even the final character growth moment in the entire series is a male's - Logain.

 

With all that, it's why I can see them putting so much more emphasis on the girls at the start - to make their mid-series climaxes (ugh - no double entendre intended) as impactful as possible. I'm not saying I trust this production team to pull it off, but if they are looking at telling the series as a single story, this could be a big  reason why.

Great write up and I agree with nearly all of it. Just wanted to add that I believe Moiraine's arc is essentially arrogance (ironic, no?) --> acceptance. We see the culmination of this once she goes through Rhuidean, gives her oath to Rand, and her arc is finalized when she jumps through the door with Lanfear.

[Jaysen Gore]

2 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

See here is the problem - you're operating from the assumption of the books.

but we're already wildly deviated from that. Nothing I have seen shows me that this story is even going to follow the source material at all. 

If we were following the books I could absolutely agree with what you are saying and support it.

But we have already deviated from that.

Sorry, I 'm not sure I see any wild deviations that would prevent the character arcs I posted above from happening. I even think most of the character decisions they've made (A darker Mat with a worse family, Perrin fridging his wife, Nynaeve more scared of the power, Moiraine being more arrogant and ignorant (thanks @VooDooNut ) Rand more isolated and alone. All of those changes could align with, and even emphasize, the character journeys I mention. Not saying they will, I'm saying they can.

 

This is television - character is king. All of the plot point changes, and the hard magic system getting changed, and history getting changed. all of it is secondary to telling good character stories. I don't think they were all necessary, and I don't like all of them, but from a character perspective, I don't see them offside yet.

 

P.S. I will give you Lan's changes - I'm fine with his personality changes, but not the ones in his competence.