Ogier Gardeners

[Thrasymachus]

There is a family in Charleston with the last name of Ogier.  One prominent member went on to become a US district attorney for California, after having moved from Charleston to New Orleans to Sacramento, way back in the 1840's.  Lots of doctors and other lawyers coming out of that family too.  It's likely the street is named after the family.  It's also likely Jordan borrowed the name from that family, as being a Charleston native, he would undoubtedly have known that name.  He may have even known a member of the Ogier family and named the race after them as a tribute.  That the name also sounds like "ogre" is icing on the cake, since Jordan likes for his characters and names to have multiple connections to myths and histories.

[Jsbrads2]

Just read today, Loial’s mother saying all the Ogier have to leave so they can return at the right time in the cycle of ages. Apparently for Ogier, our world is a time share and they have be off planet before the next age, they also aren’t around during Lenn/Eagle/moon one must presume, but they can return during a different age. 

[Harldin]

2 hours ago, Jsbrads2 said:

Just read today, Loial’s mother saying all the Ogier have to leave so they can return at the right time in the cycle of ages. Apparently for Ogier, our world is a time share and they have be off planet before the next age, they also aren’t around during Lenn/Eagle/moon one must presume, but they can return during a different age. 

Eldest Lindsar of Stedding Sholoon seems to think she is going to spend at least the next few decades guarding Liandrin and the group of Black Sisters and Ashaman Dreadlords that Androl tricked into entering Stedding Sholoon and were captured by the Ogier, and is of the opinion that a few decades in a Sredding might change there outlook. Though i would expect Cadsuane may send 100 or so sisters and 10,000 or so Soldiers to ask for them to be handed over.

One other unrelated thing to, most people seem to think that Lenn is in reference to John Glenn, i actually disagree, i think its a reference to the LEM(basically the part that sits on the Moon, which the Eagle was attached to for the landing and the lift off from the Moon, then jettisoned in low orbit. 

[Jsbrads2]

I still think Lenn is Alan (Armstrong)

[Harldin]

2 hours ago, Jsbrads2 said:

I still think Lenn is Alan (Armstrong)

I reckon its a typo, Alan? 

[Jsbrads2]

LoL! Neil. 

[SinisterDeath]

On 5/15/2020 at 10:25 PM, Harldin said:

If i remember correctly Rutledge was an Aes Sedai of the Yellow Ajah and Vanderhorst was a Seanchan Noble. ?

 

yea i know a million Comedians out of work and you get me.

The question is though, was the road named after Ogier or were Ogier named after the road

Well, apparently some guy named Lewis Ogier was a church warden at the Protestant Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina. (1804)
So my guess is that the street was named after that semi-prominent figure in very-local history.

Edited May 19, 2020 by SinisterDeath

[Thrasymachus]

Apparently, there were two Ogier families in Charleston.  The first, descendants of Lewis Ogier, who immigrated from France, and the second, descendants of Thomas Ogier, who immigrated from London.  Both Huguenot families displaced in the many wars between France and England, so they probably share a common French ancestor.  Lewis Ogier, apparently, had a son also named Lewis, who then went on to have only daughters, so his branch of the family name died out.  Thomas Ogier had a son also named Thomas, who went on to become a respected doctor, army surgeon and naturalist (who wrote a paper about how to make penises bigger and well as how to cut them off).  Dr Ogier at one point came into ownership of a large tract of land in Charleston, before it got sold on.

 

Unfortunately, I can't find Ogier St on any historical maps of Charleston before the 1930's (not that there's a lot to look at).  It's conspicuously absent from maps even as late as 1898, so it seems likely that the street was named after the later, more prominent Ogier family (and probably after Dr. Thomas Ogier himself).

[SinisterDeath]

11 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

Apparently, there were two Ogier families in Charleston.  The first, descendants of Lewis Ogier, who immigrated from France, and the second, descendants of Thomas Ogier, who immigrated from London.  Both Huguenot families displaced in the many wars between France and England, so they probably share a common French ancestor.  Lewis Ogier, apparently, had a son also named Lewis, who then went on to have only daughters, so his branch of the family name died out.  Thomas Ogier had a son also named Thomas, who went on to become a respected doctor, army surgeon and naturalist (who wrote a paper about how to make penises bigger and well as how to cut them off).  Dr Ogier at one point came into ownership of a large tract of land in Charleston, before it got sold on.

 

Unfortunately, I can't find Ogier St on any historical maps of Charleston before the 1930's (not that there's a lot to look at).  It's conspicuously absent from maps even as late as 1898, so it seems likely that the street was named after the later, more prominent Ogier family (and probably after Dr. Thomas Ogier himself).

Entirely probable. 
It's often a crap-shoot to try and find the 'who a street was named after', when a lot of that information isn't readily available publicly or in an easily searchable index.

It's amazing how often information like this gets lost over time, simply because a random city committee dedicated a street after a guy that was well known at the time, but the meeting notes don't explain the why so future generations can go. "oh, that's who the streets named after!"

An interesting example of this is Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette. A man that fought in both the American Revolution, and the French Revolution.
Seems there's a Lafayette street  in ever city from Texas to Minnesota. That guy was pretty huge from a historical perspective, and most people don't even know Lafayette street is named after him. Memories become Legends...

[Thrasymachus]

The information is probably still around, in some historical archive in Charleston, and it just hasn't been scanned in to be digitally available yet (and it might not ever be).  Some cartophile probably has maps of Charleston for every year going back to 1900, which should show the year that street was built and named.  Memory still exists, so it's not Legend yet.

 

And I would suggest that any American who doesn't know who Lafayette was needs to go find their high school history teacher and beat them around the head and neck with a wiffleball bat for doing such a poor job of educating them.  Not putting two and two together to realize all those streets are named after him as well is, well, not exactly forgivable, but some people are so clueless that it's not that surprising.

[Harldin]

Well there you  go all the proof we need that Ogier are still around, just in disguise and living in the USA, must have got an Aes Sedai to make them look human, wonder if they still live for hundreds of years? ?

Edited May 20, 2020 by Harldin

[SinisterDeath]

On 5/20/2020 at 10:53 AM, Thrasymachus said:

And I would suggest that any American who doesn't know who Lafayette was needs to go find their high school history teacher and beat them around the head and neck with a wiffleball bat for doing such a poor job of educating them.  Not putting two and two together to realize all those streets are named after him as well is, well, not exactly forgivable, but some people are so clueless that it's not that surprising.

I only learned about the dude because of a PBS show talking about him and how America has forgotten one of it's most important heros. 

Probably doesn't help that most of our History teachers are also the Gym Teacher.

Quote

The information is probably still around, in some historical archive in Charleston, and it just hasn't been scanned in to be digitally available yet (and it might not ever be).  Some cartophile probably has maps of Charleston for every year going back to 1900, which should show the year that street was built and named.  Memory still exists, so it's not Legend yet.

I'm sure the 'maps' exist, but it's hard to say if the townhall meeting notes that led to naming each and every street (assuming they even had those meetings back then!) contain the 'why' a road was named why it was, and not just a recording of the on-point agenda meeting with such riveting dialogue like  "unnamed street #35 to be known henceforth as "Ogier Street", all in favor, say Aye", "Aye"". No arguments, etc