[Advanced] Old West Mischief Mafia - Town Wins!

[Lizabeth]

 

 

@liz by your interaction with dice you did get a response out of him. It just made dice look pro town, and you not so much.

You haven't asked me yet what my conclusion is about the reaction that I got from Dice.

 

I did not know what you were fishing for, or that you ever were until this post. I am not a mind reader ><

 

I get that you're not a mind reader. What I'm objecting to was that you made an assumption about my conclusions instead of trying to explore the issue with me.

[MrsClov]

 

 

 

@mrsclov what are your thoughts about me/cuth/darthe at the moment?

 

I'm kind of null on you at the moment. Things are happening really fast and I haven't time to really dissect anything in my normal nerd fashion of word docs and spreadsheets.

Cuth, I feel like he's looking a bit better. He's getting around to answering questions. I'm really big on why answers, and the fact that he's answering them makes me feel okay about his posts. 

Darthe, I think he's stringing us up for lynch bait because he thinks he can. I don't really think it's alignment indicative for him, because of the games I've played with him I feel like he just does things to amuse himself. 

 

 

Ugh. That's gibberishy. Sorry I'm fighting an ear in fection and on my A-game.

 

What I was trying to say about Cuth was that he's giving his whys and not just this is town or this is scum. I like being able to understand people's train of thought, regardless of if I agree with it or not. 

 

I should probably apologize in advance then lol. With recent discussions I hope we can get more people involved at least. If you all are town, I really need you to find some wolves because at the moment, your the best option imo.

 

 

What do you think we're doing? The questions we're asking are so people will actually seriously interact on D1. Finding scum isn't going to happen in the first how many hours of the game, usually. But we're trying to ask questions and see how people can respond so we can figure out for sure who is scum and who is not. 

[Cuth]

i get that you're trying to create interaction

 

and i'm fine with that and that's great, really it is

 

but i'm not fine with your reactions to any pressure on you

 

if you know you're not scum then you should never start asking "who would my partners be?"

 

that makes no sense as a question that town asks

[Cuth]

seph does your name perchance start with a j

[Cass]

 

Trying to get an early handle on him. Can see his jump at you guys coming from either alignment; initial comment wrt Darthe felt possi-sheepy/shade; wondering/waiting for his response about the Tonto thing.

What initial comment about Darthe? 

Solely you-wise: potential over explanation and tone that's more timid than I was expecting from you.Eldrick: Bought that with no complaints, backed away from stance that was potentially reaching.

That wasn't timid. That was polite. And why do you consider it over explanation given that he repeatedly misinterpreted what you and I were saying to him?And why would it concern you that Eldrick would back away from a stance that was potentially reaching once the misinterpretation was explained to him?

  

 

Potential overexplanation - there's a difference in my brain ;)

 

General thing, not just wrt Eldrick - I'm reading your tone as different from your general 'I do my own thang!' and 'someone's WRONG!' in couple of places so far

 

Eldrick - Basically because the initial approach was sus and the confusion doesn't read entirely genuine imo. Possible that I'm sticking too much to bias from early pings there.

 

Do you think he was genuinely confused? If so, why?

 

 

pretty sure i want to just lock dice in as town

  

 

Attitude is chalking in at Town but too early imo.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong and he's recently instigated buses but I don't think he'd go like that so early at Liz/Mrs Clov if they were W-W.

 

now that i'm semi-caught up and have sort of read most of the posts

 

i'm fairly strongly against a dice lynch and think the reasons against him aren't very convincing

 

an omgus, whether in actuality or simply perceived, is not a sign of scum

 

a lot of scum avoid them because of the existing stigma against omguses

 

and i think he's town

 

so

 

  

 

You think Dice'd avoid OMGUS as scum?

 

 

 

 

 

@Casstastic - what are your thoughts on the diceter at the moment?

Trying to get an early handle on him. Can see his jump at you guys coming from either alignment; initial comment wrt Darthe felt possi-sheepy/shade; wondering/waiting for his response about the Tonto thing.

 

 

Spoof answered the questions. Crusher avoided them. Someone else commented on that they should be included, but didn't answer them.

IIRC Crusher answered on a similar level.

Cuth commented on being excluded, didn't need to reply to the questions I initially posted imo.

I don't see why not. Your reason for asking includes him AFAICT.

? Can you elaborate?

My reason for asking was because I've never played with them, it had nothing to do with Cuth.

I wasn't aware that you were familiar with Cuth. They are all 3 new to me, and so I thought they should all 3 answer. That you didn't think Cuth should be included was weird.

  

 

I'm pretty sure I'd explained before you made the Spoof/Crusher/Someone (Cuth) comment.

 

Why weird if you're reading me Town?

 

What was your point/alignment thoughts about the 3 in your post? Do you have a problem with any of it now?

 

I'm in a mood today, expect me to ball out

  

 

*Brings chocolate*

 

 

Damn - [v]hallia[/v] for the reason stated above lol.

Town but I bet I tinfoil on this read all game

Is this serious?

Why Towny? Why Caveat?

 

Bet I tinfoil on my read of you a bazillion times harder >.>

[seph]

I understand that. But to be honest @liz I see wolves cry omgus more so early game than town in my experiences. I wouldn't mind it as much if you both were in a conversation together like i stated, but it was his first game related post. If you were to imply the omgus was more on the jokey side since it was page 4 I might buy your argument more. but you made it pretty clear the omgus was serious.
this just might be my personal opinion on the matter, but it is how i feel.

[Cuth]

@cass i'm not saying that i think he'd avoid it as town i just think it's an awful scumtell

 

but that's just me

[Lizabeth]

Liza

 

once again

 

THREE of us responded to you saying pretty much exactly the same thing

 

you ask "well you're scumreading me who are your partners"

 

we say "hello we're not worrying about that right now, and it's wholly irrelevant"

 

you say "well don't you want to help solve the game from that point forward"

 

and again my reply is it's irrelevant

 

we don't know your alignment, you are not flipped scum nor are you peeked

 

that said your response is exactly a diversion

 

it's shoving attention away from you

 

just like you did with dice's vote on you

 

now this could be playstyle differences, but still

Ummm....the only person I had that conversation with is Darthe, so I don't get why you're trying to say that I've had that conversation with three of you.

 

I'm trying to widen attention from a tunnel, not shove attention away. So you've decided that I'm scum. I've explained myself and you're not getting it. So then okay. Instead of wasting time on tunnels I'm saying, be productive.

 

I don't expect MrsClov and I to be the lynch at the end of the day because we're town and we're both strong town players. But I don't believe in wasting time on circular arguments.

 

I'll keep hounding Darthe because he's avoiding answering my questions. He does this as town or scum, but until he answers them I won't know the difference.

[Eldrick4221]

Okay, so let's play a game of pretend.

 

Let's pretend MrsClov and I are scum.

 

Who are our partners?

It is way too early to figure out scum team. Let's nab one first and work from there.

[Lizabeth]

i get that you're trying to create interaction

 

and i'm fine with that and that's great, really it is

 

but i'm not fine with your reactions to any pressure on you

 

if you know you're not scum then you should never start asking "who would my partners be?"

 

that makes no sense as a question that town asks

Read what I wrote above.

 

And I hate when people make statmements like "that makes no sense as a question that town asks"

 

Just because you don't understand the reason for the question doesn't mean it doesn't serve a purpose.

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

 

its still a contradiction mrsclov sher needed to consult on Darthe but not on me.

 

if the darthe one is just being a good hydra what is the one on me?? One second she needs to consult then she doesnt on someone else shortly thereafter?

No, you're making it a contradiction, most likely because it involves you. It was an "Oh yeah, I'm in a hydra" moment. I didn't know about the vote on you until after the vote was placed and we talked it out. So that's when she mentioned conferring with me on Darthe. We fill the same spot, and that's not something either of us are used to doing. It is just a result of us trying to figure out how to hydra for the first time, but you're making it into something else.

this seems aggressive, like you need to put out a fire before you cant handle it.

 

Good to know you two are a hydra though idk if its gonna do anything for you.

Explain how she's being aggressive here?

Nah, it's easy enough for most to see that played last game

I see what you mean. I also see it as legit getting used to hydra. It's an interesting transition.

[Cuth]

 

Liza

 

once again

 

THREE of us responded to you saying pretty much exactly the same thing

 

you ask "well you're scumreading me who are your partners"

 

we say "hello we're not worrying about that right now, and it's wholly irrelevant"

 

you say "well don't you want to help solve the game from that point forward"

 

and again my reply is it's irrelevant

 

we don't know your alignment, you are not flipped scum nor are you peeked

 

that said your response is exactly a diversion

 

it's shoving attention away from you

 

just like you did with dice's vote on you

 

now this could be playstyle differences, but still

Ummm....the only person I had that conversation with is Darthe, so I don't get why you're trying to say that I've had that conversation with three of you.

 

I'm trying to widen attention from a tunnel, not shove attention away. So you've decided that I'm scum. I've explained myself and you're not getting it. So then okay. Instead of wasting time on tunnels I'm saying, be productive.

 

I don't expect MrsClov and I to be the lynch at the end of the day because we're town and we're both strong town players. But I don't believe in wasting time on circular arguments.

 

I'll keep hounding Darthe because he's avoiding answering my questions. He does this as town or scum, but until he answers them I won't know the difference.

 

we said one thing, you responded with one thing

 

technically not addressed at us but it could have been

 

if you're trying to widen attention from a tunnel, stop overreacting to pressure on you and start making reads on other people

 

find townies, clear them, make a list

 

right now your goal seems, to me, to be to push away any attention towards you

 

apart from the illogical scum partners thing

 

show that you're town, but not by arguing with the people you aren't about nothing substantive

[seph]

 

 

 

 

@mrsclov what are your thoughts about me/cuth/darthe at the moment?

 

I'm kind of null on you at the moment. Things are happening really fast and I haven't time to really dissect anything in my normal nerd fashion of word docs and spreadsheets.

Cuth, I feel like he's looking a bit better. He's getting around to answering questions. I'm really big on why answers, and the fact that he's answering them makes me feel okay about his posts. 

Darthe, I think he's stringing us up for lynch bait because he thinks he can. I don't really think it's alignment indicative for him, because of the games I've played with him I feel like he just does things to amuse himself. 

 

 

Ugh. That's gibberishy. Sorry I'm fighting an ear in fection and on my A-game.

 

What I was trying to say about Cuth was that he's giving his whys and not just this is town or this is scum. I like being able to understand people's train of thought, regardless of if I agree with it or not. 

 

I should probably apologize in advance then lol. With recent discussions I hope we can get more people involved at least. If you all are town, I really need you to find some wolves because at the moment, your the best option imo.

 

 

What do you think we're doing? The questions we're asking are so people will actually seriously interact on D1. Finding scum isn't going to happen in the first how many hours of the game, usually. But we're trying to ask questions and see how people can respond so we can figure out for sure who is scum and who is not. 

 

I get asking questions. anyone can do it, and depending on thread flow a wolf can even lead the direction of the thread. I really stopped trying to town read people over that, and focus on the opinions they are forming.  I am curious about what you all thing about each individual person, and at the moment who you think is a better lynch besides you and liz. Tbh I don't remember anything scummy from you, but you haven't gave me anything protown. If i missed something i apologize and i promise to look out for you in my reread.

[Lizabeth]

I understand that. But to be honest @liz I see wolves cry omgus more so early game than town in my experiences. I wouldn't mind it as much if you both were in a conversation together like i stated, but it was his first game related post. If you were to imply the omgus was more on the jokey side since it was page 4 I might buy your argument more. but you made it pretty clear the omgus was serious.

this just might be my personal opinion on the matter, but it is how i feel.

Fair enough.

[seph]

i get that you're trying to create interaction

 

and i'm fine with that and that's great, really it is

 

but i'm not fine with your reactions to any pressure on you

 

seph does your name perchance start with a j

 

if you know you're not scum then you should never start asking "who would my partners be?"

 

that makes no sense as a question that town asks

+1 and no, it's a s =p

[Cass]

I'm out, need to drive home, will be back later tonight, thoughts and stuff when I'm back on computer

 

<3 Tiiiink arrival!!! and lol Believer confusion :D

 

Have fun frands!

[Cuth]

 

i get that you're trying to create interaction

 

and i'm fine with that and that's great, really it is

 

but i'm not fine with your reactions to any pressure on you

 

if you know you're not scum then you should never start asking "who would my partners be?"

 

that makes no sense as a question that town asks

Read what I wrote above.

 

And I hate when people make statmements like "that makes no sense as a question that town asks"

 

Just because you don't understand the reason for the question doesn't mean it doesn't serve a purpose.

 

no legitimately

 

if you are town

 

you know you're town, yes?

 

therefore that question does not make sense to ask

 

because you'd know the assumption behind it is fundamentally flawed

 

you know you would flip town if you got lynched, so why are you saying people should 'look at potential partners' so that the game is more winnable from d2 on?

 

you know you'd going to flip town

 

you know you wouldn't have any partners and so anything said about partners and you would be totally invalid after you flip town

 

you've pretty much convinced me that that was a legitimate slip

[Lizabeth]

[

 

Potential overexplanation - there's a difference in my brain ;)

 

General thing, not just wrt Eldrick - I'm reading your tone as different from your general 'I do my own thang!' and 'someone's WRONG!' in couple of places so far

 

Eldrick - Basically because the initial approach was sus and the confusion doesn't read entirely genuine imo. Possible that I'm sticking too much to bias from early pings there.

 

Do you think he was genuinely confused? If so, why?

  

 

I do think he was genuinely confused. He gave his explanation of what he thought each time, and it would have been an odd way for him to twist my words if he were scum just trying to find an easy way to frame me. Especially when he misread me saying that I wasn't trying to please him as suggesting that he should be trying to please me.

 

And I do do my own thang. And they are WRONG! :P

[Eldrick4221]

I choose to not burn you for being pedantic, because it seems to be in your nature. Still, I want you to be aware that it's annoying in the hopes that youll refrain.

 

Also, swype. Faked is real close to reasoned

pe·dan·tic

pəˈdan(t)ik/

adjective

of or like a pedant.

"many of the essays are long, dense, and too pedantic to hold great appeal"

synonyms: overscrupulous, scrupulous, precise, exact, perfectionist, punctilious, meticulous, fussy, fastidious, finicky;

Yay new word. So glad it had synonyms. That is a HORRIBLE definition. (Synonyms are fitting though. I will TRY to refrain)

 

Also...swype. duh. Thank you for explaining.

[seph]

 

 

 

 

 

its still a contradiction mrsclov sher needed to consult on Darthe but not on me.

 

if the darthe one is just being a good hydra what is the one on me?? One second she needs to consult then she doesnt on someone else shortly thereafter?

No, you're making it a contradiction, most likely because it involves you. It was an "Oh yeah, I'm in a hydra" moment. I didn't know about the vote on you until after the vote was placed and we talked it out. So that's when she mentioned conferring with me on Darthe. We fill the same spot, and that's not something either of us are used to doing. It is just a result of us trying to figure out how to hydra for the first time, but you're making it into something else.

this seems aggressive, like you need to put out a fire before you cant handle it.

 

Good to know you two are a hydra though idk if its gonna do anything for you.

Explain how she's being aggressive here?

Nah, it's easy enough for most to see that played last game

I see what you mean. I also see it as legit getting used to hydra. It's an interesting transition.

 

Eldrick you seem to be staying out of the recent conversations? maybe it's just cass's posts about the early interaction you had with liz that is causing me to be paranoid ><

[Cuth]

eldrick what's your read on lizaclov

[Cuth]

seph

 

this mindmelding is absurdly amusing

[seph]

seph

 

this mindmelding is absurdly amusing

ok we really have to stop. That is like the third time since I have came into the thread....

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

 

Okay, so let's play a game of pretend.

 

Let's pretend MrsClov and I are scum.

 

Who are our partners?

Idk its d1, surely one wolf is enough atm. This is a distraction post.

Oh really? You're not interested in information that might help solve the game on D2 and so on?

Attempt to turn this denied. Go die now.

Darthe - you're not afraid of some simple questions are you? Why do you keep avoiding them?

 

Answering my questions can only make you look townier if you're town.

So not true. Eye of the beholder.

 

Town can answer a question and still be scum read for it. Scum and answer a question and get cleared for it.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

Liza

 

once again

 

THREE of us responded to you saying pretty much exactly the same thing

 

you ask "well you're scumreading me who are your partners"

 

we say "hello we're not worrying about that right now, and it's wholly irrelevant"

 

you say "well don't you want to help solve the game from that point forward"

 

and again my reply is it's irrelevant

 

we don't know your alignment, you are not flipped scum nor are you peeked

 

that said your response is exactly a diversion

 

it's shoving attention away from you

 

just like you did with dice's vote on you

 

now this could be playstyle differences, but still

Ummm....the only person I had that conversation with is Darthe, so I don't get why you're trying to say that I've had that conversation with three of you.

 

I'm trying to widen attention from a tunnel, not shove attention away. So you've decided that I'm scum. I've explained myself and you're not getting it. So then okay. Instead of wasting time on tunnels I'm saying, be productive.

 

I don't expect MrsClov and I to be the lynch at the end of the day because we're town and we're both strong town players. But I don't believe in wasting time on circular arguments.

 

I'll keep hounding Darthe because he's avoiding answering my questions. He does this as town or scum, but until he answers them I won't know the difference.

 

we said one thing, you responded with one thing

 

technically not addressed at us but it could have been

 

if you're trying to widen attention from a tunnel, stop overreacting to pressure on you and start making reads on other people

 

find townies, clear them, make a list

 

right now your goal seems, to me, to be to push away any attention towards you

 

apart from the illogical scum partners thing

 

show that you're town, but not by arguing with the people you aren't about nothing substantive

 

Don't tell me how to play mafia

 

You play your way, I'll play mine.

 

And why are you assuming that I'm not figuring out who the townies are?

 

And yes, I want you to stop tunneling on me and pay attention to the whole thread. That's what I do when someone is tunneling on me when I'm town.

 

And I'm not overreacting. I'm responding to what people are saying and pushing them to explain themselves. Not sure how I'm supposed to explore people's motives without asking them to explain themselves and directing attention away from myself.

 

Are there any questions I've not responded to? Because if that were the case, your complaint would be valid. That I'd just be avoiding and trying to redirect attention.

 

The other thing that makes your complaint invalid is that I specifically asked you questions about your perception of my vote on Dice and Mrs. Clov's concerns about Darthe and you never actually answered those (unless I missed that somewhere). And that would be the opposite of trying to direct attention away from me and my partner.