Flinn_Myth
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A #SaveWoT Campaign is underway (90k as of 01/06/25)
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How different is too different?
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Here's some recent info on it: https://www.ign.com/articles/the-wheel-of-time-aaa-open-world-rpg-is-legit-its-developers-insist-but-dont-hold-your-breath-for-a-release-date-it-could-be-a-ps6-and-next-xbox-game
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So...yeah. Loaded opinions and some personal attacks here that I want to try and avoid, but I did want to say that, though I did not like a majority of the changed plots, I never wanted the show to fail. I wanted it to succeed, and show more of what made the books memorable. So, hater maybe yes, but I in no way wanted the show to fail, because I know it's more than likely that nobody will attempt to touch this series again to make another show. I think the overall style of writing was not that great, compared to the flow in the books (regardless of the adherence to the original main story plots), and I've never agreed with "character development" being a motivation for killing other characters (I mean, the last half of Season 3 alone: Sammael, Loail, Siuan, "red coronation", and Melindhra...but not Alanna, no; there must be exceptions...). At least Alsera was somewhat understandable, as it was a similar event in the books; but when you start the series off by doing so (i.e., Perrin), it becomes more than just a crutch, it becomes a depressing trope. Anyone who has read the entire series, and supposedly loves it, would be hard pressed to take key moments out, even for the sake of saving presentation timeon screen to advance the overall story. They had to know what they were attempting to do was near impossible without proper planning and forethought, but the show never presented itself that way. It was inconsistently done across the board. For Rand, the "romance" between Rand and Selene was too drawn out (after the Lanfear reveal), the lack of swordsmanship but keeping the heron mark blade, the sign of the dragon at Falme... these and many other decisions made the main character look weak. Egwene was a powerhouse in the book, so I don't agree that she should have been presented in a less favorable way, but taking out the Aiel cultural interaction (as gai'shan), and her unquestiond abilitiesin TAR did her a disservice. Perrin...like, why even have the yellow eyes if he isn't talking with wolves or hunting in TAR. That's all issue with character development. Nynaeve was good, but less fiery; and towards the end, I was beginning to enjoy Mat, Min, Thom, and Elayne. There's the world building too, like the "laws" ensuring consistency in how the True Power is used, or simple human social dynamics. Very inconsistent, and very little diversity. Mixing different populations to the point where they have no defining character (other than farming in the Two Rivers and a bawdy song in Tanchico) is a disservice; nobody can be drawn in to a story world where each individual place looks different, but the people look and act the same. So, no, I didn't want the show to die, I wanted it to be better, and engrossing. It felt to me more frustrating and incoherent though, I'm not a director or an author, so I can't rightly say what could have been done better. I am a reader and a viewer though, and as a Wheel of Time story, the three seasons were disappointing; I know it deserved better, if they were to move forward.
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Wheel of Time Season 3 - Full Season Discussion
Flinn_Myth replied to SinisterDeath's topic in Wheel of Time TV Show
I guess the discussion thread has to move on to other things...the series ends with 3: https://www.ign.com/articles/amazon-cancels-wheel-of-time-prime-video-series-after-3-seasons-leaving-the-story-far-from-finished?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Manual&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR7ycsdje-7QjBhqZoTEfANsQAWhk0kdRsoxNfuABRP5IGmREGI7SVG8QB_kIg_aem_0Cv_ZU71YdzLhECUerc8KQ -
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Wheel of Time Season 3 - Full Season Discussion
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Wheel of Time Season 3 - Full Season Discussion
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Wheel of Time Season 3 - Full Season Discussion
Flinn_Myth replied to SinisterDeath's topic in Wheel of Time TV Show
I don't get the argument that a "low-budget" reinterpretation should be appreciated, because at least it's something more than nothing. I grew up with the books and am well aware how much filler there was, and how much real substance was presented. I am thankful there aren't multiple references in each show to the wind being a beginning, Rand being wool-headed, or the random superiority complexes from main character thought bubbles (though I do miss Mat's oddly lacking "Blood and Bloody Ashes," which I believe only Min has said, once recently, oddly enough). My criticism is that several of the changes made seem to me to be either cheap replacements (i.e., Rand's Indiana Jones fight with Turok, and the "prophesized" One-power flame dragon), cheap entertainment (i.e., Morgase red-coronation, Siuan decapitated in the tower [in the Amyrlin's chamber no less], Elayne and Aviendha romance), super inconsistent (i.e., Rand going from barely controlling his channeling to beating Sammael (!), Sammael [greatest war tactician ever] coming at Rand with only 3 Shaido and a magic hammer, Lanfear using True Power to no benefit/ added power. and Alanna being healed from near-death by 2 wilder teens...twice), or super rushed (i.e., Loail's last stand, Egwene's lying glossed over [but Alsera holding Rand to Toh] and her TAR mastery over Lanfear within the span of one show). I fully admit that season 3 is much better, and that overall the show by itself is not too bad (if I imagined not having read the books previously). However, because they present it as the Wheel of Time series, I would have appreciated a more coherent and compact re-telling, over only partial pieces of the original story. I fully understand removing/ summarizing parts (i.e., Rand and Selene in the ways, the hunt for the horn, travelling time in general), but changing specific key moments from the book to be more human-centered is not cool to me. They removed a lot of the fantasy, or included lesser versions of it (i.e., Perrin's abilities, control of the One Power, female- male power dynamics, Whitecloak workings, Padan Fain's power, Aes Sedai composure/ political standing). I think they did a good job with Rhuidean, the Eelfin, Thom and Bayle, the Seanchan (minus the heron-mark "battle"), and the Two Rivers battle; so, I know they are capable of presenting things coherently and relatively true to the original. They just aren't doing it consistently, are removing the underlying fantasy (specifically by removing interactions with the Creator and the Dark One [not even the vertigo from someone naming Shaitan, iirc], and assigning responsibility of those roles to human characters), and making directive choices to just move the story along without consequence, in my opinion. Where is the forethought in proceed ing with a mediocre show? It's only going to get a mediocre response, especially if changes made reflect scenes or changes similar to those in other modern shows. -
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Wheel of Time Season 3 - Full Season Discussion
Flinn_Myth replied to SinisterDeath's topic in Wheel of Time TV Show
New poster, long time book fan here. I'll just say that I don't like the re-appropriation of any original work, that changes the fundamental theme of the original. I guess you can call me a purist of sorts, but so much from my youth has been brought back and twisted over the years, and to have so much that I treasured in TV/ movies/ books changed to satisfy new cultural expectations and norms, outside of the original generation it came from, seems very disingenuous and lacking in respect for the original author'(s) work, aside from the lack of originality and innovation. WoT (books) had fantasy aspects that brought more to the table than dark-sided humanity as a main story threat, even if some of it originated from humanity itself (i.e., boring into the Dark One's seal, Trollocs/Fades/Grey Men created by Forsaken, Mashadar). Even the more supernatural "light-sided/ Creator" aspects have their meaning lessened (i.e., the Pattern and Ta'veren reference to the 3 boys, the interaction between Rand and the Creator at the Eye of the World, the sky battle scene at Falme). Each of those things from the book took on a life of their own, and brought their own independent sinister or holy feel. Everything in the show so far, and even more so in Season 3, places most of the onus on human-related tropes of good and evil. Minus the death of Melindhra (which actually could still be rather assigned to the breaking of her dark oaths by refusing a direct order from a Forsaken, rather than attributed to the Dark One), all the main focus is on human threats, without the supernatural darkness existing in the background. Even the Bubble of Evil concept from the book was something explained away as Lanfear's doing. Aside from that, the peoples and cultures in the show have even less distinction now than in the books, aside from a change in wardrobe. Every place visited so far is multi-ethnic, with no real distinguishing cultures or even languages/ accents. I don't think RJ did a great job of creating unique place identities to begin with, but the aspects he did present have been lessened in the show (i.e., Egwene lying to the Wise Ones and Toh only being referenced for Rand to feel bad after killing the child, and more time spent on a bawdy song than explaining how Tanchico is different than any other place [like, what is the Panarch]). Even those touching the True Power (including Rand, unless he was somehow taught by Sammael in half-a-show's timeline before he was killed after being captured) don't need to be bothered with learning how to use it, or learning from others. They just "feel" it, or picture the end result they want, and it all works out; more magic willpower than technical use of weaves. Healing arrow wounds can be done by a couple girls after only a "you are the bud" speech, and a prophesized Dragon Reborn can be "proven" by just channeling a fire dragon in the sky. Tar Valon culture and women Aes Sedai mean far less in the show, and are shown as emotional and impulsive, rather than composed and calculating (a unique, organized body, on a national scale, to be reckoned with, and respected/ feared), as in the books. Overall, I think the show is getting better, if it were something on it's own, or based on a "re-telling" of the books. As a visual representation of the books though, it is only getting worse. And in either case there are an increasing number of plot holes and contradictions, as well as obvious direction to just move the story forward (i.e., Sammael the greatest war-tactician who can only think of a direct attack with a Power-Hammer), rather than explaining reasons why or presenting it without contradicting events in previous shows. As a result, the Ogier have effectively been written out, the Seanchan threat dealt with, no more wolf interaction for Perrin, no Birgitte, Padan Fain and Luc/Slayer are a non-threat, no Salidar and the two Towers (along with more prophecy by Nicola), and the Last Battle will likely be a showdown between the remaining Forsaken (namely Lanfear) against Rand and Egwene. As a bit of an aside, is Lanfear supposed to be using the True Power at the end (black threads surrounding her during the battle with Moraine)?