Reckon RJ killed off several of his Evil characters early on  , thinking at the time he would be finishing the whole work in another book or two...

Then as he realised the story was going to run a whole lot longer he needed to have a couple more villains so resurrection became fashionable.

Of course Ishamael really had to return somehow .  And I think he just liked his Lanfear character so much he couldn't resist bringing her back too - even if she doesn't do so much in her second incarnation.

Just thought I would share the famous ballad about this chap...  can't supply the musical notes I'm afraid  🙂

When John Henry was a little baby,
Sitting on his pappy’s knee,
He grabbed a hammer and a little piece of steel,
Said, “This hammer’ll be the death of me, Lord, Lord.
This hammer’ll be the death of me.”

Now, the captain said to John Henry,
I’m gonna bring that steam drill around.
I’m gonna take that steam drill out on the job,
I’m gonna whop that steel on down, Lord, Lord.
Gonna whop that steel on down.”

John Henry told his captain,
“A man ain’t nothing but a man,
But before I let that steam drill beat me down,
I’ll die with my hammer in my hand, Lord, Lord.
I’ll die with my hammer in my hand.”

John Henry said to his shaker,
“Now, shaker, why don’t you sing?
’Cause I’m throwing twelve pounds from my hips on down.
Just listen to that cold steel ring, Lord, Lord.
Just listen to that cold steel ring.”

The man that invented the steam drill,
He thought he was mighty fine.
But John Henry, he made fourteen feet
While the steam drill only made nine, Lord, Lord.
The steam drill only made nine.

John Henry hammered on the mountain
Till his hammer was striking fire.
He drove so hard he broke his poor heart.
Then, he laid down his hammer and he died, Lord, Lord.
He laid down his hammer and he died.

They took John Henry to the graveyard,
And they buried him in the sand.
And every locomotive comes rolling by
Says, “Here lies a steel-driving man, Lord, Lord.
Here lies a steel-driving man.”

Now, some say he was born in Texas,
And some say he was born in Maine.
But I don’t give a damn where that poor boy was born.
He was a steel-driving man, Lord, Lord.
He was a steel-driving man.

1 hour ago, Caelan Arendor said:

Brown Ajah, Mission: Knowledge and scholarship

 

 

As proponents of knowledge and research, they serve as the guardians of the White Tower’s library. They are regarded as scholars, and I have the impression that the main focus of their studies lies in the exploration of human history. As a side note, I must remark that I am astonished at how little, despite their efforts to shed light on the past, has actually been preserved from the Age of Legends (I have spoken about this elsewhere).

What I particularly value in them is that they remain largely untouched by political machinations and seldom involve themselves in such intrigues. Their focus rests on research, not on schemes. Of course, there is also an “however” with the Browns: many of them appear absent-minded or impractical. They forget everyday matters because they are so deeply absorbed in their studies. They are often considered otherworldly and struggle to interact with people beyond their books and research. Still, this does not make them truly unsympathetic to me.

 

About one very special representative of the Brown Ajah I intend to write in a future piece. I suspect you already have an idea who that might be, don’t you?

 Just a little 🙂

Blimey , Caelan : I am getting exhausted just reading all your new topic posts !  Still it is probably good for this site to have someone new setting off debates (again) on subjects that have doubtless been already thrashed out years ago ... but from a new perspective. As someone relatively new (just 2 years in) who therefore wasn't across those presumed archival debates , I am happy to contribute to your topics when I feel I can add anything.

And I rather like the Brown Ajah too.

Seanchan are a weird lot all round , are they not  ?  Their society is based on some appalling customs - the enslavement of the damane being only one example . Look also at the way da'covale are treated ; and the cheerful expectation that members of the royal succession will constantly try to murder each other  🙂  To say nothing of the barbaric punishments handed out to opponents who fail to yield ...

Yet on the other hand , once the invaded peoples accept their conquest , they allow them to go on with their normal lives unmolested and free to act as they wish (as long as it isn't rebellion) ; and don't demand they take up Seanchan ways at all.  Of course they still seek to collar any potential channelers  ; though since they believe marath'damane  are a threat to society if let loose you can see why they think this is reasonable. (And this has some echoes on this side of the ocean too with the way Aes Sedai treat wilders - and of course the compulsory "gentling" of any unfortunate male who has the power)

And as the story goes on we encounter Seanchan who are clearly both honourable and very decent people : Egeanin of course ; but also several military types we get to know through POV s and various meetings with our heroes. And Tuon is OK...

Guess no society is without its flaws (even today , no  ?) though some are more obviously lacking in what we would regard as appropriate. It is still not far off a medieval period...

Had a look back at the relevant chapter....  It really isn't clearly explained ; but Mordeth completely changes when Rand notices  - and says aloud  - that he doesn't have a shadow. He looms up in what seems to have been a bit of an illusion - and then suddenly retreats at the same time as Mat picks up the Dagger  - so I presume it is something to do with that ?

Is it that his scheme is achieved by having Mat take that implement ? Or does he somehow fear it himself ?

As I say : never really explained.  But it gets Mat's tale another feature so imagine we are not supposed to worry too much about the details ...

RJ really didn't say much about the remaining Ages (except for some foreshadowing re the Fourth) . And to be honest it doesn't bear much scrutiny as the expected advance from this pre-industrial world would surely see things into a replica of our own age sooner rather than later , no ?  Unless perhaps some magical nonsense upended everything quickly and sent the world back to primitive times , shorn of magical abilities for Fifth Age...but that still leaves us two Ages short 🙂

Probably best to just enjoy the story without trying to make some of the background principles concrete...

The obvious one   :    Tarmon Gai'don            >                Armageddon.

Of course if you believe that statement of Brandon's that Lanfear actually survived by somehow messing with Perrin's perception  (and therefore basically got clean away ) then I guess she has to take the prize , no  ?   

Yes . I always found it a little amusing to think of an eyeless creature being able to "see" his potential victims, etc...  Suppose we just have to put it down to "magic"  - of which there is plenty to go around 🙂

Oh dear I am struggling with this one . More even than I expected because the "underwhelming" Elayne chapters have given way to Egwene laying siege to Tar Valon  : and have to confess these are far worse - to me at least.

Bias admitted : I really don't like Egwene at all .  Sure,  she does some great stuff (if scarcely believable at times given she still seems like a silly teenager whenever she thinks about Gawyn) ; and we know she will eventually have an heroic scene. But her personality just rubs me up the wrong way throughout...like I say , just personal bias.  Sorry 😉

But even if I loved her to bits I don't think I could easily get through all this sitting around having evasive conversations with sundry Aes Sedai , fussing about headaches and subtly hinting at Plans to take down Elaida...  The one bright bit being the moment when she realises she sort of regrets not having Nicola and Areina murdered and is shocked by how she has changed.

Ah well , onward  - only 200 pages to go....

Ah yes...what Elayne is up to...

Should have remembered.  Think this is probably the most excruciating part of the whole story : not the actual succession thread but all the fussing about the Aes Sedai/Servants/Guardswomen and their reactions  ; not to mention Aviendha and Birgitte nurse-maiding her through pregnancy .  I mean I love those two characters but not so much their roles in this part : just overdone.

Moving on slowly but finding these chapters the Ultimate Slog... I know it will get better soon   end eventually... 😎

Nearly half way into Crossroads (reading much slower than you , WoTwasThat ) and not finding it quite as bad as I feared...probably because I had resolved to make this series read through a very leisurely stroll.

Prologue seemed to be about introducing several new strands into the story : one could argue the necessity ; but obviously RJ wanted to fill in a lot of detail about what was happening in the land away from our regular characters...and the threads started here did actually go somewhere in later books so can't really complain about it too much.

Lot of time with Perrin : a distinctly mixed blessing. He does a fair bit of interesting stuff over the series  ; but boy does he waffle on in his head for pages on end - I could really do with less of his introspectives , especially fussing about this and that Aes Sedai or the scents surrounding his companions. The whole Faile Capture thing is well under way and I honestly find some of it quite readable ; but here at times RJ does seem to get bogged down in too much intricate detail. Example : pages 240/241 and nearly a whole page devoted to detailed description of How to Wash and Dry Silk Garments in the open air...OK only a page , but still...  On the other hand one might say it is the way in which he paints every little detail of the scenes that makes the WOT such an immersive experience : more than many works , in this one you can actually feel you are present in this world and witnessing the action.

Of course in all the various POVs up to here we are getting flashes referring to characters' awareness of Something Big happening , ie The Cleansing ; so marking where everyone is at this particular point in time.  Necessary , I guess , with all the different groups scattered around the continent ; so if it does seem to be a bit of a Going nowhere fast volume , we can understand the reasons.

As for Mat and Tuon I can always enjoy any time with Mat.  Even in the Circus.

On to chapter 10 and will see what Elayne is up to ...

Having just finished Book 9 on this re-read , I am embarking again on Crossroads of Twilight (a volume I confess hasn't remained as vivid as many in my memory) with something of a heavy heart...  So probably was an unwise choice of mine to read your above comments , WoTwasThat  🙂

But I did get a laugh out of some of them.  Hope I don't suffer as much as you going through this one : it is only 600 odd pages , after all ...

Yes the whole "Wheel" idea is a great one  , even if some aspects are perhaps a little at odds with our science based historical reality 🙂

I do wish RJ hadn't killed off Herid Fell so early as I would also have enjoyed seeing a bit more from him. Wonder if Jordan originally intended to use him more but eventually decided he didn't have room in the story  ?  Which would be somewhat ironic given the amount of space given to various channelling women cat fighting and Andoran political struggles in the middle books !)

You are going a lot faster than me on this re-read , WotwasThat...

My impression of this book hasn't changed all that much yet. To be honest , I don't hate the Elayne succession stuff in itself : it is the relentless fussing and fighting about between Aes Sedai/Wise Ones/Kin/Sea Folk (in all parts of the story , not just this volume) that has me glazing over : basically it is surely just filler and could be cut down drastically with no impact on the narrative.

Looking forward to the cleansing : not so much to Far Madding though I may like it better this time around. We will see...

Rendering Cadsuane pointless and therefore removing her from the story completely would have been a magnificent contribution to the whole series 🙂

(OK , I know  - my personal bias , just can't stand the character. Sorry............. sort of.)

Moiraine & Thom did end up feeling a bit underdone but in truth I don't really have any problem with the timing of the rescue. Given all the other stuff various characters were up to I think it was necessary. 

Was a great episode in itself , anyway.

You are a few chapters ahead of me...

Yeah it isn't that awful.  My only real gripe with the Faile in Captivity thing is it just went on a bit too long. And I know I have that coming 🙄

I guess Jordan had to do something with his other main characters while working his way through Rand's battle with madness and his belief that he had to become hard as rock against his own nature. One of the drawbacks of creating a story with so many interlocking plots and multiple leading characters ( as George M has found !)

 Some good stuff coming with Mat as I recall - and a good finish to the book ; but I doubt it is ever going to become one of my favourites ...

All sort of makes sense. But an excruciatingly boring use of 81 pages 🙄

  And the worst thing about Book 8  :  Total absence of Mat  !

If I have to pick favourites : Verin , Suian and Pevara.  Actually didn't mind Joline either - though I really can't blame Mat for dealing with her in rather ungentlemanly fashion in Knife of Dreams  🙂

Mat and Nynaeve make me laugh often throughout the series.  Talmanes good for a chuckle or two also but those two the star comics  - if mostly unwittingly.

Patiently and in no hurry on this reread : into what is generally considered to be The Slog at present. Not finding it too arduous  - but certainly not as "lively" as 1-6.

Actually didn't mind Book 7 this time around.  Not much to complain about , bar perhaps a little too much Perrin introspection early on.  Oh ,   and the arrival of my Most Annoying Character who should have been Eaten by Trollocs  (Yes , Cadsuane 😠 )  But otherwise OK...I quite enjoyed Ebou Dar (all those Feast Days !) ; and nice to spend a bit of time with Darkfriend and Chosen POVs.  Plus some vigorous action sequences in the latter pages.

But 8 is trying my patience a little. Far too much Egwene playing politics with Lelaine and Romanda ; or Elayne worrying about friction between Seafolk Kin and Tower women.  Can't get too excited about Rand's campaign in Illian against the Seanchan either : just getting there now so maybe will be better on this reread. 

Will maybe comment on 9 and 10 when I get there.

Currently taking a very leisurely trip through the whole series ( having read I think three times before , and many times more for the early books) after a bit of a break from them. And yes , finding bits I had forgotten - even quite significant incidents : the fracas in the Whitecloak HQ that rather upended the chain of command took me completely by surprise as I had totally forgotten the timing and circumstances 😉

Some parts enthrall as much as ever  ; some more so : and a few annoy a bit more !  But always a pleasure to go on the journey again...

So a pity WOT didn't have a similar commitment - to 8 ?  But realistically that was never happening .  I suppose they only have so much money to invest in a new show and if it isn't raking in the big sums it ain't going to last...