I don't know, but in my short time here, it is not unknown for people to arrive asking about Mafia. Sadly never enough of them at the same time.

I see. Well, we could ask, @LedZepMan, @Hallia, @Shad_ and @loki redfern as they have been about recently. Not that anyone ever replies to their mentions. Edit: oh yes I double dare you 😄

Yay! If only I understood why it was a good post. Surely there is more to it that just talking, er, poop?

I think these two are protesting too much. The roles cannot even have been assigned yet, but they are obviously as guilty as sin. It would be a favour to the rest of the world to lynch them. *Aside, that is my real name, this could be annoying game, but probably I'll get used to it*

I have no idea what Mafia is, but I am down to try.

And if we concentrate only on these "some" at either end of the spectrum, then we can have a lovely "social war" discussion full of hatred and vitriol. Or we could discuss the actual books and show on their merits. I dunno what you guys would prefer but I would prefer to discuss the Wheel of Time. It doesn't really help to preempt people's arguments (strawmen rarely fight back) or to reply that "your side is worse", but whatever floats your boat. Personally, my experience would point to fans of the book being divided in their enthusiasm for the show, depending on how much they liked the show, not by predisposed political views. So this tribalistic them and us mentality I don't get.

Yeah this is strange. The first three books suffer as they were not written as the start of a huge series. The need to come to a self contained climax, at least at the end of book 1 and 3, really hindered Jordan in telling the story he wanted to. The conscious mirroring of LOTR is also dropped. I have never been into LOTR due a strange and pathological hatred of hobbits (hairy footed little ****ers) and I never realised until recently that Ingtar is not an original character but a reworking of Boromir. Jordan was obviously also still working on his ideas. He rarely contradicts himself (such as where Yurien recognises Verin by her ageless face as a Wise One) but definitely things change such as Mat's character or the plot with Moirraine, her husband and her helping Thom find the Red Ajah. Book 4 is where all this drops away. He knew he had the pages now to tell the story he wanted and Rhuidean is where the truly vast epic starts - quite different from the we have to travel about looking for a arbitrary magical item while being chased by monsters of the previous books. Books 1-3 were always going to be problematic, not because they were badly written, but because they were episodic in a continuous series. I don't know the criticism of Jordan that is mentioned here, but criticising a book hardly amounts to disrespect to the author. Is someone saying they prefer a softer magic system, or a harder, a slap on the face to Jordan? I don't see how.

Lol, the Moiraine and Thom thing always seemed like something Jordan forgot about. Right near the beginning there is the comment "I know my future husbands face better than you do" then nothing. His subplot of revenge on his nephews killers was dropped. I kinda think like Padan Fain was missing from Jordan's notes, he probably left something like Moiraine and Thom written in a heart in the margins but nothing else. It is one of things that just makes no sense at the end. I'm not sure it is fair to blame Sanderson for anything he hasn't owned up to personally as there was obviously heavy editing going on above his head. Jordan I think is on record as saying "what do you think would happen amongst a whole bunch of teenage girls?" (or words to that effect) but I've never seen any indication of teenage boys or men in the story acting similarly. Also the way it is presented in the most part as a phase is off putting. Though again that could have been to make it more acceptable to society, or perhaps Jordan was bisexual and thought it normal that everyone needed to suppress homosexual feelings that could get out of hand. And don't even get me started on the spanking or female nudity...

It is true that the Suian-Moiraine relationship does not further the dragon plot any, but it does deepen Moiraine's character. Given that this is obviously one of the goals of the show, along with her relationship with Lan, and her elderly little sister, etc, and casting the headline actress and producer in the role, it does fit the vision of the series, and definitely goes some way to correct Jordan's near fetishism over pillow friends. I've never quite known if it was a case of Jordan wanting to be inclusive but male homosexuality was taboo in those days, or if he really thought women are just sex mad at their core, or it was just his heterosexual perspective that women are objectively attractive while men are not. One thing I definitely agree with is how cheap some of the scenes appeared, especially in the first series. One possibility for this is I read they were deliberately using Asian influenced visuals to increase the popularity there, which tends towards more bright colours than the more natural grubbiness we favour in the West. So when in nature, I think that kind of clashed for me. The scenes travelling through the forest felt like some amateur LARP scene, though it is difficult to say exactly how when they are literally just travelling through a forest.

Welcome to Dragonmount, AlsBeck 🙂 The clubs (social groups? I think they have had a lot names over the years) are just a place to hang out. People there are just themselves, as opposed to someone that grew up in the streets of Caemlyn. To check them out just sign up here, which will open up all the White Tower threads (which is the most active club at the moment), and then a good and recommended start would be to introduce yourself in a few of the Ajahs and ask a question. Straight away that should give you an idea of how the Tower works and introduce you to who is about, and show how odd it is to act like a Novice amongst Aes Sedai.

This is a fantastic rationalisation, but I don't think it is supported by the books. Mat and Perrin barely trained with Lan at all. As I remember Perrin was set some basic exercises, and we never see him practice weaponry again in the story that I can remember. I don't remember Lan being particularly impressed at any point, but that could be my failing. The games, perhaps being based on Highland games, would only show off what talents that the Fielders already had. We never hear of anyone training. The smith was the strongest man due to his profession, not any training regime. Indeed, having someone as strong as Master Luhhan, would make training strength for the vast majority of the villagers pointless in terms of competing in a competition. The same for footraces (or any other discipline) - only those gifted in the sport would be motivated to cultivate that ability. The Fielders, with perhaps the exception of the quarterstaff (though again this highlights the change in Mat's character, that even when prompted by Lan, "Gollem" Mat didn't think about his amazing proficiency with the weapon) never show any skills that they would not use in their everyday lives. To claim they were trained to be soldiers or warriors is not backed up by any information in the books that I can remember. Indeed, they are very against the command structure needed for soldiery and only got around to it under extreme duress when they then decided they loved having unelected officials that controlled much of their lives. Who wants freedom, huh? Mat has a lot reasons for being special - the "old blood running strong" with his ability to speak the old tongue in snatches (a feature not explored in much depth or in anyway explained) and his memories given by the Finn. Perrin on the other hand, doesn't really have any of these features except strength and some sort of barezerk rage, either inherent or from being a wolfbrother. But he is a ta'veren, and is cloaked in plot armour, and has a touch of main character syndrome. He couldn't just remain a clumsy country oaf, but I think Jordan could have done more to justify martial prowess in story.

In the beginning, you needed to be the best swordsman in the world and have the benefits (and protection from their "powers") of the Warder bond to be a match for a Fade. We see one Fade comfortably defeating a whole group of Borderlanders. Very quickly we see that a country boy with big arms can comfortably defeat one, a small group of Aiel can confidently attack three Fades, ending up that humans can resist an entire battalion of Halfmen at the Last Battle. It is simple power creep - and given the situation of how the books were written I don't think Jordan can criticized too much about this. Their weakness to the One Power also makes their prowess against non-Channellers rather moot anyway.

While the Portal Stones are neat explanation in this case, I think it would be fairer to put that down to the necessary power crescendo that was Jordan was building given that the series may come to an abrupt end at any point. Trollocs started as terrifying, and Fades certain death. Very quickly any number of Fades are seen as little more than an inconvenience. We don't see this effect in any other part of their lives, and Perrin becomes a warrior nearly without equal, despite having nothing more muscles trained at the forge. He has no Flame and Void, no training, no natural apitutude mentioned, the best explanation we get is it is from the wolf within. Against the Shaido, Roland does get the better of him, but Perrin is using weapons he has never used before and cuts his way through any number of Aiel. I suppose you could also use the effect of being a ta'veren as an explanation, but really you still need poetic licence in my humble opinion.

About revealing Rand as the Dragon Reborn, only those intimately close to the Dragon would be able to recognise that. Plus it would seem that in the majority of the lives, Rand was not heralded as the true Dragon Reborn, and each of the soldiers could have drastically different lives. Verin of course already knows. Add in that the memories quickly faded, and their focus would probably be on their own experiences which given all the lives would include a lost Tar'mon Gaiden would probably be fairly traumatic. For Mat and Perrin, that would ruin the story at that point so we just don't get to see their experiences and the knowledge they gained is never directly addressed. Necessary for the plot, sadly. Just like we never see Rand's first trip to the Finns.

A stew does sound good.

Ice peppers and honey cakes? Never thought about themed food before. It is a good idea 🙂

Cat pictures are generally well received. Not sure what the issue is really. Hope everything is OK, she probably is just busy. More making Kaf than scrubbing pots, but you never know what they will have up their sleeve for you.

Just as well it is you doing the poking, Cross Sedai. Delen was most unimpressed the last time I tried that. I have been sending her pics of my cat to get her attention,but it is almost like she has blocked me on every platform. But that would be crazy, who would want to block little old me?

Thank you for elucidating your position. Perhaps now this aside that has nothing to do with WoT can be laid to rest.

There is also the fact that sul'dam is inside the damane's head when they are complete. When being told that you must protect you sul'dam, want to protect your sul'dam, you cannot just pretend to do so until they let their guard down. They are punished until they genuinely want to do what they are told. Their previous identities are washed away because they are told to forget about them. If they get a ribbon for being good, the sul'dam will know if they are genuinely pleased or not, and can be treated accordingly. In reality of course this could lead to some sort of emotional splitting (I think the term is) where parts of the personality are split off to protect the core identity, but in canon I don't think there are many damane that are driven insane and the vast majority are successfully conditioned and trained.

Religious representation and inclusion does not necessitate advocating for human rights abuses. Just as the inclusion of male American actors does mean that you are advocating male infant circumcision. Malaysian culture promotes the type 4 FGM (which is non-surgical, though I don't know exactly what it entails, the medical papers I read were not dealing specifically with this aspect). To blame this on religion, or to exclude Malaysians from such things as casting on WoT, does not seem an effect way of helping young Malaysian women to me. Being in favour of exclusion, whether in grounds of racism, or on grounds of all religion is wrong and only you know the truth, does smack of bigotry. And seeing as the context of the discussion is diverse casting in the Wheel of Time, your antagonism against said inclusion, and support for opinions such as those of Samt, is somewhat confusing if you are wholly in favour of this type of inclusion. Perhaps it is simply your desire to be as unpleasant as possible to people who enjoy the show, but I would advise that if you want to discuss an issue that you state your own opinion as opposed to attacking and mocking those who may have a slightly different from you.

I neither attacked nor defended. I was merely pointing out that FGM and circumcision take place under very different circumstances. I never said you were Christian, I was only enquiring if you thought all other personal faiths should be excluded but yours, which apparently you do, given your anti-religious fervour. Also Christian values are rather hard baked into Western culture, even for those who actively disbelieve in God. Discussing inclusion as regards to WoT does not include organised religion due to the world setting, yet you have made it a major talking point to argue against inclusion as a good thing. I'm an agnostic atheist and have always thought that there could be nothing worse than a close minded militant theist to debate with, but recent experience (elsewhere) has taught me that atheists can just as close minded, aggressive and unreasonable. Which I suppose is understandable, but also rather depressing.

March seemed a long way away when the third series was announced. Not so far now. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me and I'll see what I can do to help.

This is really quite a magical place. A home I never realised existed, until I am now so old and decrepit. My favourite forum? Probably those in which one is not thrown in the moat. Repeatedly and without any cause. Though that admittedly might be just me, the Aes Sedai appear to take great pleasure in my sodden discomfort. I mean I know someone has to clean behind Bob's ears, but still. Other than that, straight up book discussions are the most fun. The show tends to be a bit er, well, bookcloak-y for my tastes too often. A re-watch is a great idea, that I may have to copy in the coming days.

Twisting of words does not make an adequate argument. Extremists of religions, or in the case of FGM, misguided followers (a majority of Muslims in Malaysia think that their Type IV FGM is required by Islam, despite immams telling them it is not), believe in the violation of human rights. Not the moderate mainstream. Male circumcision is totally different kettle of fish which this is not the appropriate forum to dive into, due to mixed messages from the medical world. And that is not a uniquely religious issue, given the US's cultural opinion on the issue. And Samt absolutely does equate inclusion of one thing to the inclusion of another, a prime example of the slippery slope argument made by conservatives about pretty much everything, and in particular about such things as same sex marriage (where does it stop? Can we marry our dishwashers, our cats, our children? Where does this madness end?). You equally equate the inclusion of non-Christian ideas (religious ideas should not be included, according to you) such as circular time with non-therapeutic circumcision, even though this is practiced by certain Christian sects. Inclusion is not difficult to define or understand. You'd like for me to re-read your posts? Ha ha. That is a good one. As I said, if must have been my misunderstanding that I missed your pro-inclusivity and left wing views and your overflowing love of humanity.