1 hour ago, EmreY said:

I both fully agree with Elder_Haman (apart from his comment about Alfred (and even more so Edward)), and am also not entirely sure that the Rand we're seeing is depowered in the slightest (the reverse in the fact).

 

Rand should, by rights, become even more enigmatic as time goes on.  Nearly a sort of Sauron-in-inverse, he does actually occasionally turn up, pull something out of his hat that no-one expects or blast everything into smithereens - and then disappear.  And people talk about him, right or wrong or pick up the pieces*. Until almost the very end of the books.

 

*Eg: The Cleansing.  Yes, there is some Rand there, but then everyone is off doing something too.

 

And since we can't get to Rand's head, most likely the series will show how he looks from outside based on books description from POV of Egwene, Mat and other secondary characters - stone unfeeling face, eyes cold as ice, with random moments of rage. Why do all characters, other than Min, Perrin, and Nynaeve assume he is full of himself, unfeeling? And then add madness instability in later seasons (constant muttering and rages from book will work too). And then complete break down with all exposed at Dragonmount.

15 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Who seemed to be the mother of the little girl. We also see that same little girl escaping in Perrin's initial vision, which is a cool detail I missed the first time.

Didn't Perrin found that little girl dead outside the village? Along with her dead dog?

On 9/1/2023 at 1:56 AM, A Memory Of Why said:

 

Maybe, but neither one has visions..

 

Honestly, if I can turn my brain off I'd say it looks cool and I like it. But turning it back on I don't understand, it made sense and would be cool if it was wolf talk, but it doesn't feel like that..

 

Maybe it's due to his connection to TAR? Instead of him having prophetic visions in TAR.. or on top of.. I don't know.

 

I reckon we're going to have some teaching moments coming up soon, we'll see if it gets explained.

Those visions are straight from the second book and were never explained. 

Did anyone notice who were attending Darkfriends Social - I saw:

one female Seanchan with long nails 

 one male Shienaran 

One Aes Sedai Black Ajah 

One female Tinker, based on dress?? Anyone we know, I don't think that Tinker was ever identified in the books.

Possibly Whitecloak, pretty sure I saw white vambraces.

Anyone else?

On 9/2/2023 at 7:26 PM, Scarloc99 said:

I mean the book forsaken knowledge of weaves changed as RJ fleshed out the rules more and more. Compulsion for instance would have come in really useful in the eye of the world. This is the one thing with book vs series. During much of the early books RJ was figuring it all out as he wrote it, creating situations and then coming up with t he magic rules to allow it. He did not flesh out everything before he wrote EOTW, in fact I would guess when he wrote book 1 he knew very very little of what was to come. Now with the TV show the writers have all of the bag of tricks, plus all that other stuff the forsaken do that we never see “on screen” or is just hinted at. So Forsaken can do remarkable things, but, if a single forsaken could genuinely still any other channeler that easily then it changes all the rules of the game in a way that makes no sense. Suddenly every other forsaken is at risk if they are caught out sleeping. 

According to books, a single very strong channeler can sever other, less strong channelers pretty easily. Read Fires of Heaven and then Lord of Chaos:

On 9/1/2023 at 10:46 AM, DreadLord31 said:

But, even with girded loins, there’s still a lot that is hard to swallow as a book fan: Matt doing nothing; Min being completely “off”; Rand doing nothing (and sleeping with Selene); Logain is gonna be Rand’s teacher (and you took 3 episodes to set that up?); Perrin doing, basically, nothing; Elyas is gonna start teaching him at some point? (and you took three episodes to set that up?); Uno is dead; Liandrin gets the most screen time (it feels like)??; Liandrin is gonna be Nynaeve’s teacher? (And you took 3 episodes to set that up?); Elayne gonna be Egwene’s teacher?; a lot of Moiraine more or less replacing the Suian/Leana book-arc (unless they’re gonna be really redundant with time they don’t have in the show); emotional Lan… 

 

I think directing wise there’s more evidence in that Rafe: A) prefers the girls as heroic characters, B) loves fake-out deaths, C) wants to “add content” to WoT more so than adapt the source material, D) is going to get us to iconic book scenes and basically the same end-points as the books (and tick off most of the hard-core fans in-route there)!! 

I just recently reread first 3 books. Based on books, what most of these characters did there could also be considered as "nothing". So far 3 episodes in, I like 2nd season far more than 1st season. It's actually pretty faithful adaption with some minor additions that don't detract from the story (actually giving background and reason for Liandrin being who she was, other than being evil for evils sake like in the books, and a way to replace Asmodean while giving Logain more storylines, meanwhile introducing Cairhien politics). I would also support making two Elaine brothers to just one, I think with story constriction is makes strong sense. 

You forgot the part about Rand bringing out Moridin from Shayul Gul cave and as he blacks out he hears encouragement from "a woman in Aiel clothing", who is heavily implied to be a mysterious Nakomi, who Harriet identified as either Creator herself or his Agent. Furthermore, multiple Prophecies that fans speculated about ended up being minor nothingburgers such as the one about Jahar Narishma, Rand bending a knee before Suon, so Alivia got relegated to collecting supplies for Rand.

So, I am re-reading entire series ahead of Season 2, and finished book 1.

When I was reading before, I assumed that all the Eye of the World hints were just happy coincidences that lead our group to be at the Eye of the World at just the correct time to save the World. And then at Eye of the World confrontation was just Forsaken released because first Seal just broke due to being old and weakened by Dark One's taint.

However, after Season 1, as I am rereading the books, all those hints that "coincidentally" were revealed leading the group to the Blight, now feel like a setup and a trap set by Ishamael. And their confrontation at Eye of the World was actually correct as depicted in Season 1, as being a setup by Ishamael to break the first Seal. With 3 Ta'veren being at crucial junctions at same time broke the first, already weakened, Seal, thus releasing Forsaken and leading to the first fight of our group vs Aginor and Balthamel. Once first Seal was broken, others would follow. AM I correct in this theory? What do you think?

On 4/11/2022 at 8:32 AM, David124 said:

I suspect that part of the reason that they have become tired of doing the show is that Martin has not finished the books, when both he and they expected him to They signed up to adapt a series of novels, which they did extremely well. Then they unexpectedly had to end up finishing the story on their own, with mixed results.

I disagree. Pretty sure that D&D knew exactly what they signed on with GRRM. After all, at the time he just released his 4th book where after 5 year gap, readers realized that he managed to omit most of protagonists and add half a dozen more of secondary/tertiary POVs, then he promised to finish next book in a year but spent 5 more years before release. Even if GRRM was optimistic about his release schedule, most serious fans knew the truth. Thats why D&D rejected outright his "proposal" to extend series to 10 seasons so he would be able to complete book series, because they didn't believe he would be able to do it.

I am going to grade Wheel of Time and other fantasy/scifi adaptations. The grading is according to source faithfulness (not quality) Feel free to add more /comment.

1. The Expanse =A+ ( not surprising since both authors are executive producers, and any deviation from books is no doubt rewritten by them personally)

2. The Lord of the Rings =A-. (Jackson hit all major bits omitting/changing only most minor storylines)

3. Harry Potter =A-.

4. Game of Thrones =s1-4(A-), s5-8(B). That one on GRRM, D&D are not comparable as writers to him and its obvious.

5. Walking Dead =B+ (I've seen only first seasons and from a glance they adopted first seasons rather faithfully).

6. Wheel of Time =B (world building, characters, major plotlines are there. There are changes, plots moved around and skipped. But I can recognize this show as Wheel of Time).

7. The Foundation =C- (basic premise, character names are there but characters are totally different. Stuff added that wasn't in the books or even implied. Characters and their totally motivations changed. I slightly recognize this as Asimov's story)

8. The Watch =D- or F (Name of the world, names, species I recognize, everything else, the tone, humor, characters.. Is this even close to Discworld ?)

I am not familiar with the Witcher to grade it but I heard first season is faithful while 2nd season is not. I

1 hour ago, ilovezam said:

Haha, she also made claims about how there would be a clash between two forces of nature that will guarantee the deaths of those nearby, but nothing remotely of the sort happened.

In both books and show there is a misunderstanding of when that battle will occur and how it will happen. In book 1-3, Rand assumed he won against Dark One when it was only Ishamael, and Rand only killed him (1st time) in the 3rd book, while in both book 1 and 2, he just thought he did, and it was a trick.

There is nothing preventing the last battle happening exactly as described, two sheer forces battling it out in the cave of Shayol Ghul, and anyone else inside the cave being killed.

1 minute ago, Skipp said:

 

It was meant to reference the only weave you can do when you are sleeping.  If The MAN is only partially dreaming I think it would be neat that he could only weave spirit until freed.

I think it Spirit was the only weave a channeler can hold on to from real world as they fell asleep. Once in a DreamWorld they could channel ALL weaves (aka Egwene vs Dark Ajah/Masaana firefight)

36 minutes ago, Skipp said:

 

Someone pointed out to me that you can only weave spirit while dreaming.

 

Are you saying according to TV show? Because according to books, you can definately weave spirit while awake. There were several book passages where one of main character was doing precise channeling with "...touch it with Spirit just so...". 

If I remember correct channelers can only hold Spirit weave as they fall asleep and are asleep, other weaves (in real world) are discontinued if channeler falls asleep or unconscious, that why dream tar'agreals are activated using Spirit.

On 12/23/2021 at 9:36 PM, CaddySedai said:

Also definitely shielded. 

 

A really damn good one. 

 

Its not that she is stilled “its there at the end of her fingertips but she cant quite touch it.”

 

During gentling you saw power being ripped out not pushed in. 

Read somewhere, thats to expand Moiraine's role next season. In TGH, she goes to Vandene and Adeleas to read books? Now she will go on trip to unwind the Shield.

Pretty sure that Ishamael just tricked Rand and Moirane into breaking first seal.

On 12/21/2021 at 11:04 AM, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

We need the Graendal / ludicrously over the top balefiring incident to show how far Rand has gone.

Doesn't need to be Graendal. Can be any Forsaken, male or female, after all whomever that Forsaken is - he/she gets to escape that incident while a whole lot of his/her mind-controlled underlings (aka victims) die. The whole point to show how far Rand has gone and STILL missed his intended target.

If we take most middle of WOT books, they could be easily combined because all of the books combine a whole lot of travelogue which could be skipped.

1) Great Hunt - Rand/Mat/Perrin travel to get back dagger (and Horn of Valere).

2) Dragon Reborn - Rand travels to get Callendor, Perrin/Moirane to catch up with him. Mat travels to "save" Elayne

season 2 - Both these books can be combined to save time. and it looks like instead of Cairhien it will be Andor. So Rand/Mat/Perrin/Moirane travel together till Andor. After Andor, Rand leaves alone, others try to catch up. Seanchan attack could be also added in. And it all ends in Tear.

3) Shadow Rising - Season 3.

4) Fires of Heaven -  Season 4.

4) Lord of Chaos - Asha'man organization start, Aes Sedai two camps try to manipulate Rand - ends with Dumai Walls. Add storylines for Mat, Supergirls and Perrin from a Crown of Swords  thats Season 5.

5) Next 4 books (Path of Daggers, Winter's Heart, Crossroads of Twilight, A Knife of Dreams) can be combined into  1  condensed season 6.

6) Gathering Storm and 1st part of the Towers of Midnight - thats season 7

7) Towers of Midnight 2nd half and a Memory of Light - season 8.

We get a reveal that Padan Fain is really...Ishy! He will confront Rand and Moirane. Seeing trailer, I'd say he will use hallucinations of dark Mat to troll Rand. Supergirls and Lan confront Trollocs who attack Fal Dara and win the fight since Shienarans suddenly find themselves needing help from 2 women who are less trained then Amalisa. Perrin looks sad. 

Moiraine dies or goes thru doorway ter'angreal and is assumed dead. Rand claims he killed the Dark One. And at the end, Ishy reveals that he is alive. Seanchan start attack/raid on Tar Valon. 

31 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

On Egwene, I don't think she'd be putting herself as forward as she does with Nyn or Moiraine in the room. And I think she would have been a little more "let me out of here" in a room with Nyn and Siuan.

 

On Mat and Min, I agree, but I put those changes on the writing, and not on the acting. The acting for both of them was great.

I disagree on Egwene. In the book, the only time she was "let me out" was when Nyn and Moiraine clashed. As for want to be an Aes Sedai, in the book she always pushed forward, regardless of Nyn or other disagreement and distrustful Aes Sedai agenda. In the books, she pushed herself into the company that left Two Rivers (because Moiraine didn't dare to leave her behind to talk) but she butted in that conversation, and when Nyn and Moirane clashed in Baerlon, Egwene hated to be in the room during their argument but she pushed her desire to be Aes Sedai regardless of what Nyn wanted.

On 12/16/2021 at 3:37 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

I guess I should respond seriously. 

 

The cast is almost uniformly amazing, and gets my choice. The only thing that's preventing some of them taking over head canon completely is the writing decisions. (eg. Madeline would be perfect as Egwene, but her character is too certain in herself too early, so Egwene isn't perfect). But I really like the job all 7 mains are doing, and even the supporting roles are well cast and acted.  A-

 

I'll wait until the end of the season to give my final grades.

Reread TEOFW for Egwene. While she is respectful of authority figures and looks up more to Aes Sedai and Nynaeve but in her interactions with boys, she bossed them around and showed them up, a lot. I think show and the actress portrayed Egwene as she is early in the books, spot on.

I felt, other than Min and Mat, everybody was a good match for their character, embodying the essence of their characters.

Mat was too dark early on, before the dagger. I felt it made juxtaposition of pre-dagger Mat and dagger Mat less obvious. And Min, is also too world weary than book Min.

13 hours ago, TheTuna450 said:

While I understand why people think that the show will handle Moiraine's departure in a materially different fashion by keeping her around, I fully expect it to be largely the same trajectory as the books, in that she will 'die' saving Rand in either S3 or S4, then return for the final season, which would very optimistically be S8. While Moiraine is the main character right now, that must necessarily shift to the EF5, as they have far more room for growth and development as characters than Moiraine does, and all the "big picture" narratives revolve around them. What's more, keeping Moiraine around would seriously crimp the character arcs of Rand, Nynaeve, and Lan in particular.

 

With that in mind, I think she makes her dramatic exit and dramatic return in roughly the same fashion as the books. I quite like what they've done to tie Moiraine and Siuan together much more closely, as it will make what happens to Siuan even more upsetting than it is in the books, and will make Moiraine's return that much sweeter as well. Can you imagine Siuan going along with the rescue squad? My goodness, but that would be some must-watch TV.

I can see Moiraine dying at the Eye of the World but suddenly in the second season she is there watching over and teaching Rand and it looks like she survives. She does her speeches, and teaches, admonishes and annoys Rand like she did in the books, channels to kill B'lal and such. While other people just "ignoring" her and answer Rand, and Lan leaving or behaving strangely is explained by her to Rand as "going on the mission" or "conflicted about his dual loyalty to her and Nynaeve". And then at end of season 2 (or 3) we realize its Rand hallucinating her words and the things that she "did" channeling and such were done by Rand himself. 

That was done before in other shows, I remember anime about earthquake where sister spends all of episodes between first and final episodes going home with her brother,only to realize in finale that he was killed in the 1st episode.

23 hours ago, Wassup said:

Is it possible that Moiraine senses darkness in him because he was separated from the dagger but the connection was not severed?

Based on trailer, its most likely either the dagger connection is not completely severed or its an illusion at tEotW instead of Kara a'Thor. They could have used a scene already filmed with Barney when Mat was still under influence of the dagger. 

2 hours ago, FanofKnotai said:

The book didn’t have to explain how because he just used the trefoil leaf. The show definitely needs to show how he got into the ways because the waygate can only be open by the OP in the show. Unless you’re saying maybe PF can channel…?

I've started to think that maybe Padan Fain is merged with Ishamael here, and he is the one who will face Rand & Moirane at the Eye of the World. Was there a casting announced for Ishamael?

Or he is the main bad for the rest of the group remaining in Fal Dara. 

18 hours ago, lsm said:

was there any hints on how Padan Fain got into the ways? Was it one of the forsaken we saw in the lightning flash in the ways where Loial was figuring out the guide post?

That part and Lan's line are taken straight from the book. And the book didn't bother explaining how either. 

15 hours ago, Kudzu said:

 

Someone pointed out the other day the RJ said on his blog he would be happy with an adaptation something like Merlin. I think I only ever watched a few episodes of that show and don't remember much, but from what I do remember, if that's the bar he set he would be ecstatic with the this show.

I am not taking sides, but unfortunately RJ passed away before first season of GOT, and Merlin was probably the best a fantasy could hope for on television at the time. GOT and HBO set a high bar in production, quality and adaptation which all other series in both SciFi and Fantasy attempted to follow afterwards, some successfully (maybe even better) some worse. I also want to remind you that Merlin show was oriented on young adult audience /teenagers not mature adult audience that WOT and most premium fantasy/scifi shows are now designed for. Once GOT came out and showed what fantasy show could really be, Merlin barely lasted a year before being cancelled. I am sure that had RJ seen GOT he would wanted his books to have similar dedicated treatment too.

On 11/28/2021 at 7:06 PM, Harad the White said:

Not fantasy, but SF. 

Foundation by Isaac Asimov. I don't have Hulu? so haven't seen it. Any viewers or reviews?

I watched, light help me I did. Some of you think that Rafe butchered WoT? Its NOTHING compared with what was done to Foundation story!

However production quality is way beyond WOT, Expanse level or higher. Story, if you accept that producers just took general outline of books and run with it, is actually OK too .

1 hour ago, LordyLord said:

                                              WHAT MAKES A GOOD CHANGE IN ADAPTATION?

The rule of changing a Plotline from the books is that the change must make the Plotline Better not worse in the Tv show

I will use the Nyneave/Morainne/Lan plotline as an example.

In the books, the 1st half of this plotline goes like this:

Nyaneve , Lan and Morainne go on the road, whilst discussing the mission. Morainne reveals to Nyaneave shes a channeler

In the shows,the 2nd half of this plotline goes like this:

Nynaeve and Lan get injured Morainne to Aes sedai camp where we learn more about Aes sedai/Warders. Nyaneve and Lan bond. Logain is expanded. A battle between Logain/Dragonsworn and Aes sedai erupt. We see Nyneave save the day spectacularly and Logain gentled

Analysing both takes, The Show was SUPERIOR.

The Shows version of the plotline is more epic,moreworldbuilding and fleshes out the characters deeper. This plotline is a big reason why Episode 4 is the Fans favourite. Because this was Plot change done right

Now lets take an example of Plot Change done wrong

In the books, the 2nd half of this plotline goes like this:

Nyaneave , Lan and Morainne launch a daring rescue of Egwene and Perrin.We get Perrin's wolves powers,Lan swordsmanship, Morainne channeling and the reunion of the two parties.

In the show, the 2nd half of this plotline goes like this:
Nyaneve , Lan and Morainne go to White tower. Nynaeve and Lan try to help Stepin through his loss. Stepin commits suicide.

If you compare the 2 versions, The Books version is SUPERIOR. The Books version has our main characters going on a daring awesome rescue and is overall more epic than what we get in the Show.This is a big reason the Plot change involving Stepin is a BAD change.

 

FINAL THOUGHTS

The show is 50% good plot changes, and 50% bad changes. Gives a mixed experience

My personal opinion, they should have removed Stepan suicide/Tower subplot and just had him go from calm warrior trying to keep casualties to minimum to raging maniac,  upon Kerene's death, who run into swords and died trying to kill as many as he could. And I would have thrown in one of Alanna's warders as a casualty and have her deal with his loss in the next episode to explain Warder bond and a loss of it on both Warders and Aes Sedai. Remove Lan wailing scene!!!