7 hours ago, Windigo said:

I think some of it is likeability, with the books you could have 8 books where many readers hated Nynaeve Moiraine, Perrin or Mat, which in a show makes it harder to invest in the characters if they are boring, irritating, annoying early on, even if later they become a favorite. To me they have eliminated some of that, and the characters are more like what they are later on,

Thats a very fair point. I had been thinking that Nynaeve seemed much more like Nynaeve in the later books when she is much more at peace with herself. Your reasoning on this makes sense.

8 hours ago, phoenixtrinity said:

I've been enjoying the diversity. Jordan's world always felt diverse and although there are certainly nitpicks to be had, overall the diversity in the show is working really well. Even my husband says it really gives the impression this fantasy world has a blend of cultures and he hasn't even read the books.

 

To that end, I'd have been more disappointed if the show only featured stereotypically Caucasion actors and actresses as I personally would have found it lore-breaking.

 

Yeah, I think the one aspect of it I've found a bit disappointing is that in the books I got such a strong sense that each area had its own ethnicity (i.e. a Domain would look very different from a Cairhienin) and that doesn't seem to have been replicated in the shows. It was part of what made the world feel real to me. I can understand why that would have been tough to replicate though.

I think the diverse casting is working out fine in the main cast, but I see your point on it being a bit jarring when you see every ethnicity in every location the characters have been in so far.

I wonder how the show will portray the Seanchan and Atha'an Miere?

Apart from being vaguely right appearance-wise, show-Lan and book-Lan don't seem like the same person to me.

I'm finding it a bit jarring that some characters are kept the same in terms of personality (Moiraine, Rand, Perrin, etc.) while others like Lan seem unrecognisable.

9 hours ago, testicularthom said:

I hate to make the comparison but GOT got it right almost from the get-go.  I don't know  how high quality production TV pulls that off (with GOT) but WOT is lacking in the greatness of the acting (the chemistry, the nuance and overall quality of the characters being portrayed) but that does not mean that it won't happen just that it hasn't happened yet.  I can tell some hard work went into developing the chemistry , It's just not as high quality as GOT or HBO's Rome that seemed to nail it from the get-go.  HBO's Rome series nailed the chemistry from the first take - I wonder why they could not employ those caliber of actors/actresses with such a budget?  Age constraints?

I think you've hit the nail on the head, here.  I was expecting something of similar quality to GoT and it just feels consistently a level below it.  The actors seem mostly ok (but not superb as in GoT) but I think the writing is also not in the same league.  

Another difference to me is that the characters in GoT were completely recognisable between the books and TV series.  Yes, there were some differences but the core character traits and personalities were the same.  If there was a new scene in the TV series, it still felt like part of the same GoT as the books because the TV character responded to that new scene in a way that felt true to the book character.  I'm not getting them from WoT.

In particular, Nynaeve seems really off.  The actress seems fine (if not spectacular) with the material she has been given, but she doesn't seem like the same Nynaeve as the one from the books.  And I'm not really even talking about the vast acceleration of her talents with saidar as of episode 4.  I mean more her actual personality seems unrecognisable.  There's none of the ascerbic, barely restrained temper and fury, or the bossiness and bluster.  I can't see book Nynaeve opening up to someone else about her traumatic childhood or being comfortable joining a campfire of Warders as the only woman.  It's like the show has just taken her name and a few basic attributes (healing talent, tracking talent, falls in love with Lan, can't control emotions) and then written a completely different character.

Lan feels similar to me - there isn't the same feeling of stoniness, or stoicism in TV Lan.  Same with Thom - the TV character is fine, but he's not recognisable as book Thom.

I think it's particularly jarring as some characters do seem to have been faithfully translated from book to screen (Moiraine, Perrin, Rand) so it feels more like bad writing or not understanding some of the characters instead of the show aiming to be different on purpose.

8 hours ago, Harad the White said:

"His Dark Materials" was written 11 years after the WoT, so you are right that it feels derivative.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post.  I didn't feel the Gyptians were derivative of the Tinkers when reading the books; I felt the portrayal of the Tinkers on the TV show felt derivative of the Gyptians portrayal on the Dark Materials TV show.

R.e. the shielding, it looks to me like the shielded channeler can channel inside the shield, which is quite a deviation from the books - think Nynaeve and Rand scrabbling for weak points in their shields to reach the source - albeit, probably not a significant one in terms of plot points.

To me the scene with Logain and Steppin looked like Logain was able to block the axes with saidin once they passed through the shield but couldn't get any weaves past the shield.

A few thoughts on this episode:

Liked

• acting/actors for Logain, Liandrin, Steppin, Moiraine, Perrin, Egwene, and Rand - all really spot on this week, I thought.  Logain and Liandrin in particular have perfectly captured the feel of the characters from the books while handling material that is new to the TV adaption to the extent that I forget what's book canon and what isn't when I'm watching them.
• sets and costumes
• the 'feel' of the tinkers and the atmosphere around their campfires
• the writing for Perrin and Ila's conversations
• the fight scene between Thom and the Fade - Fade movements were fab.
• depictions of shielding and linking were great, I thought, and the subtler reactions of the Aes Sedai around this (particularly Moiraine reacting to Logain's strength when she took the shield)

Disliked

• Going to be against the grain here but Nynaeve really wasn't doing it for me in this episode.  I think the actor is fine, it's more the writing I have issue with.  A couple of the scenes just seemed so far from how book Nynaeve would have behaved that I'm getting the impression the writers haven't understood her character at all, e.g. her opening up about her childhood trauma to Lan (Nynaeve would never give away anything that would make her vulnerable!), and her willingness to join the Warder's campfire - not something I can see book Nynaeve doing.
• Nynaeve's raging sun moment.  I kind of don't know where they go with her character from here if she's already capable of this kind of thing with zero training.  It also seems bizarre that she would have this massive emotional reaction allowing her to channel for a bunch of Aes Sedai and Warders that she doesn't know or like very much, yet have zero channeling reaction to her HOME AND LOVED ONES being destroyed by trollocs only a few days earlier.
• Lan.  Meh, something about him just doesn't feel 'rock-like' enough to me.  The stoicism and aloofness that I got from book-Lan isn't there.
• the physical depiction of the Tinkers themselves.  It reminds me too much of the Gyptians from 'His Dark Materials' and feels derivative.
• The warder campfire scene. The whole thing seemed forced and uncomfortable.
• The Moiraine/Lan vibe - my husband is a non reader and I'm a long-time book fan and both of us got the impression the writers wanted us to think there's something between them. I'm guessing this is to make more of a love triangle between Lan, Moiraine, and Nynaeve.

Just now, WhiteVeils said:

She definitely is stronger, and that's just fine. Why shouldn't she be?

In the books Logain is much stronger than Nynaeve. As I said, I don't see that changing this impacts on the story in any significant way, but I think there could be knock-on effects of changing the relative character strengths as they affect (particularly Aes Sedai) character interactions.

My husband and I are long time book fans and have just been speculating about how some potentially controversial plot points will be covered given how much the world has moved on since the books were written (and how these plot points may be taken).

In particular, we were thinking these ones could be really challenging for the show runners to adapt sensitively:

• Mat's relationship with Tylin
• The nightmare Egwene inflicts on Nynaeve in Tel'aranrhiod
• Rand's relationship with three women
• Faile's treatment of Perrin before they are in a relationship, and then aspects of their relationship after they are married.

Do you think the show will cut or edit any of these? And if so, how could it be done well while still keeping the character's story arcs intact? Are there any other plot points you think could be tricky to put in front of a modern audience?

Is Nynaeve being portrayed as stronger than Logain..? His repetition of Moiraine's 'like the sun' comment after watching her healing burst makes it seem that he's in awe of her power (and that it's much greater than his own). 

Not sure it would matter much if this was changed from the books (I think the ranking put him considerably above her in strength). I wonder if they'll scrap the book canon that male channelers can achieve greater absolute strength than female..?