2 hours ago, SingleMort said:

Is it too soon to talk about Tuon? I know it should really be years before she shows up but given that they seem to condensing so much I wonder if they will introduce her early and merge her role with other Seanchan characters? 

I can't see it, unless they really alter the Seanchan plotline. Ebou Dar would probably fall in seasons 5-6, so the Seanchan ships are off screen for 3+ years. Which is too much to do a cameo type set up for an actor.

16 minutes ago, Ralph said:

 

I expect them to bring up Healing Logain to Season 2, and Nynaeve to Heal Moiraine instead of Siuan. 

I can't see that happening, especially now that more Seanchan castings are coming out. The Wonder Girls aren't in the tower long enough to be able to execute that plot.

Also - shielded, not stilled. So I do think the knot thing with Siuan makes more sense. 

1 hour ago, EmreY said:

 

What the book series does not do so well is that it takes numerous characters to do things that could profitably be done by fewer.  It gives the illusion of a richly populated world, but in reality you have a lot of throwaway characters.

 

Moiraine is not one of them, but if you had to do a 100-word precis of the series, still, would she appear at all?

Yes; she is the stone that starts the avalanche.

12 hours ago, EmreY said:

I'm looking for a musical episode.

 

 

Okay fine - Season 6, Ebou Dar

Fooled Around and Fell in Love - Mat

Pretty Tied Up - Tylin

My Name is Mud - Gholam

Jak o' the Shadows - Mat

Cold Hard Bitch - Tuon

Still Haven't Found What I'm looking for - Nynaeve / Elayne

War - Seanchan ensemble

We Got to get out of this place - EF5 / Kin ensemble

(Walls Come) Tumblin' Down - Mat

Sympathy for the Dha'vol - Narg

On 12/31/2021 at 5:36 PM, Rogue One said:

Hello! 
 

The TV show has prompted me to re-read vita of the series for the first time in ages while I was at my parents’ for the holidays. And I realised I have a fair few questions about the ending of the series, and I thought I’d pop round and ask!

 

1) We know the Bore is drilled in the AOL and sealed by Rand in AMOL. Do we then know the DO is active in the world only between these two events (and subsequent turnings), or whether the DO also gets freed / is active in eg the fifth age? i guess if the former it would make Tarmon Gai’don actually the LAST battle against the DO (though of course no beginnings or endings etc) 

 

2) slightly linked to the above is the nature of the Dragon. LTT was a powerful channeled and fought the DO in AOL. 
He then re-spawns as Rand in the third age. But Rand has a) the channeling ability and memories of LTT b)reality warping abilities. In the end it is b) that really matters to the endgame, but is that in any way related to a) (ie did LTT also have this ability), or are the two things (Rand being LTT reborn; and Rand having messianic reality warping powers) unrelated? 
 

3) is a turning where the DO wins possible / do we think it has happened?

 

 

thanks to anyone who’ll take the time to read / respond!

1. Here from the First Age, we know that the power of the Great Lord of the Dark, Prince of Darkness and Lord of the Morning has a massive influence over the world.  But I do not believe he is able to touch it directly. And Darkfriends are still fools.

2. We don't know if LTT gained this power, because after failing in his duty to protect his family, he decided to pick up the mountain instead, because he thought it was lighter.

3. In an infinitely large and infinitely lasting universe, every scenario, no matter how improbable is guaranteed to happen. So either he has won in the past, or will do so in the future. 

My take:

1 - Adam and Eve / founding mythos / tree of knowledge until the discovery of channelling / arrival of Ogier

2 - The "Age of Legends" - from the discovery of channelling to the sealing of the DO's prison

3 - Randland Age - from Sealing of the prison, until the remaking of the prison

4 - Science emergent - From the remaking of the prison until the death of the last channeller

5 - Science alone - replacement of channelling and expansion into new frontiers until a catastrophic event, departure of Ogier

6 - The long decline - Humanity loses all of it's knowledge, through attrition, war, and environmental cataclysm

7 - The animalistic age - humanity in an ignorant state of survival, having lost even the memory of knowledge. the world erases previous era's physical landmarks

Mankind has direct knowledge of the DO in Ages 2-5, he is directly influential in 2 and 3, something to be cleaned up after in 4, and a child's fairy tale in 5, before being forgotten. The concept of "an Adversary" is reintroduced in the first age, but it is not until the end of the second that we discover he is in fact real as measured in scientific terms.

And just for fun; there is nothing in the lore that says that "humanity" needs to be homo sapien sapiens in each turning. so it's possible that the entire sentient species is wiped out at the end of 6, and it's not until a new one evolves across 7 that the wheel begins again. Which would give the wheel an evolutionary duration to eradicate the impact of a previous turning on the landscape, environment, natural resources, radioactives, and the like.

7 hours ago, fra85uk said:

Agreeing to a degree

I would give Wot D adaptation D Season 1

And divide the GOT rating between 1-4  and 5-8 

My position on GoT, given the forum we're on: the lack of quality of season 7 and 8 was so heinous that it balefired the quality of earlier seasons, and killed it.  Because there was a complete inability to tie the beginning and end of the series together into a consistent whole.

Alternatively - a drop of fine wine in a bucket of piss is still piss. But 1 drop of piss in a buck of fine wine is also still piss. and there was way, way more than 1 drop of piss from seasons 7 and 8.

37 minutes ago, Masha said:

I am going to grade Wheel of Time and other fantasy/scifi adaptations. The grading is according to source faithfulness (not quality) Feel free to add more /comment.

1. The Expanse =A+ ( not surprising since both authors are executive producers, and any deviation from books is no doubt rewritten by them personally)

2. The Lord of the Rings =A-. (Jackson hit all major bits omitting/changing only most minor storylines)

3. Harry Potter =A-.

4. Game of Thrones =s1-4(A-), s5-8(B). That one on GRRM, D&D are not comparable as writers to him and its obvious.

5. Walking Dead =B+ (I've seen only first seasons and from a glance they adopted first seasons rather faithfully).

6. Wheel of Time =B (world building, characters, major plotlines are there. There are changes, plots moved around and skipped. But I can recognize this show as Wheel of Time).

7. The Foundation =C- (basic premise, character names are there but characters are totally different. Stuff added that wasn't in the books or even implied. Characters and their totally motivations changed. I slightly recognize this as Asimov's story)

8. The Watch =D- or F (Name of the world, names, species I recognize, everything else, the tone, humor, characters.. Is this even close to Discworld ?)

 

I am not familiar with the Witcher to grade it but I heard first season is faithful while 2nd season is not. I

I grant you the faithfulness argument on The Expanse and Harry Potter; would just point out how much flack the first 2 Potter movies get for being too faithful to the books ? 

- Lord of the Rings is a B-, B adaptation at best. The Scouring, Faramir, Haldir are not minor changes to the themes or emotional impacts of the story.

- Technically, I don't think seasons 5-8 of GoT are adaptations at all; they're original material.

 - Walking Dead - if you've only watched a bit, I'll avoid spoilers, but this may be the perfect example of why Amazon only wants 8 years for their series. While the first seasons are somewhat faithful - and really good - production realities have forced the character arcs to diverge to the point where they're simply keeping the later plots, and shifting the characters around to fit into them them. At this point, Negan should have pulled a Sopranos, and ended them all, and not just the ones he did. Oh, and the two big breakout stars of the show exist for like 2 issues collectively, so that's a bit much.

 - Foundation - that's now a based on series, not an adaptation. Not as bad as I, Robot, at least, but when everything but the names have been changed, it's no longer The Foundation

For me, Sin City is one end of the spectrum, and Starship Troopers is on the other. The one is a note perfect recreation, but not a great movie as a result. Starship Troopers keeps almost all of the details, but completely inverts the themes of the book, because the movie director didn't agree with the original author, making it a satire.

And here's one that I'm probably hypocritical on - Blade Runner. I like the story, love the movie (the Director's cut, anyway) but it's not a faithful adaptation either.

In fact, maybe that gives us a way forward - we can split faithfulness and quality.  So, IMO:

Harry Potter - A+ Adaptation, A- movies (3,7 = A)

LOTR - B- adaptation, A movies

WOT - B- adaptation, C+ season 1

GOT - A- adaptation, D series

Shannara - B- adaptation, F series

Blade Runner - B+ adaptation, A+ movie

Sin City - A+ adaptation, B movie

300 - A+ adaptation,  B+ movie

Expanse - A+ Adaptation, A series

The Boys - A adaptation, A- series

Ender's Game - A Adaptation, C movie

I could go on...

On 1/7/2022 at 3:19 PM, Deviations said:

She took that approach without knowing anything about him.  Also, she was a bully to every other person she came in contact with except Sorilea.  It was what she was, not just a mask to wear in order to fix Rand.

And you see her PoV's complaining about how weak the AS are that she can do that to.  More clay to be molded, and isn't she going to love being Amyrlin. And while people think others who think they're the smartest people in the room are arrogant, from the perspective of people who truly are the smartest in the room, the world is a great source of frustration and aggravation. 

On 11/9/2021 at 8:38 AM, DojoToad said:

When the horn was first blown by Mat, the heroes said they needed the banner to follow.  Everyone waited while Perrin cut a sapling and mounted the banner - never mind the Seanchan.

 

But it is also said the heroes will fight for whoever blows the horn - be they light or dark.  Am I misremembering?  If a trolloc got to the horn first, would the heroes have just showed up and just milled around because they didn't have a banner to follow.

I believe that you've finished the series, and may not have caught it, but I'll spoil the AMOL ending just in case.

On 11/2/2021 at 4:09 PM, Dedicated said:

 

OMG.. I just realized I've been misreading his name this entire time... I think I may have a mild form of dyslexia. 

Seeing as how it's intentionally a bastardization of Gawaine - Knight of the Round table - you're probably both okay

On 1/1/2022 at 5:15 PM, AdamA said:

The books are already grim dark. There is a scene of stone automatons stealing a woman away from her screaming baby to temper a new sword by taking her soul. Between that, the gholam tearing people's limbs and heads off with his bare hands, the Asha'man exploding the Shaido, the Shaido tying people up and leaving them naked in the snow, everything Graendal does to her servants. Rand having to poison Fedwin Morr is almost a carbon copy of Carol's "look at the flowers" scene in Walking Dead. Jaichim Carridin's execution is nearly a carbon copy of the gluttony killing from S7ven. If they translate faithfully, this will be every bit as dark.

I disagree with this - in Grimdark, it would be Rand who does that to replace Tam's Sword, not servants of the dark one

In Grimdark, neither Rand nor Carol would mourn having to euthanize crazy people.

Carridin's execution was by performed by villains. Not by the Edmond's Field Village Council.

Here's a hint - if characters are doing something for the right reasons, and not for their own power, aggrandizement, or benefit, it's probably not Grimdark.

45 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Yeah this is exactly the point that I'm making. WoT was awesome before any of that stuff showed up. It was a somewhat derivative story executed masterfully. 

 

Now, if you're the type of reader who cares more about the "what" of a story than it's "how", the first few Wheel of Time books might not be for you. If you're the type of reader who thinks, "X is like Y but Y came first so therefore X is inferior for being less original," then the first few Wheel of Time books might not be for you. If you're the type of reader whose attention span is directly correlated to a story's "originality" (this does not exist btw), then the first few WoT books might not be fore you. 

 

This is lowest common denominator critique. The "how" matters more than the "what". Eye of the World and Eragon have a lot in common. The reason Wheel of Time is better is not that it came first, but that it was written by RJ. If the authors had been swapped and RJ had written Eragon in the 2000's after Christopher Paolini had done his take on EotW in the 90s, Eragon would be a better series than Wheel of Time. 

 

Rafe agrees with you. He thinks the first book is lame. That's why the first season has so much stuff from later books shoehorned in. But WoT was WoT before any of that stuff showed up on the scene. 

 

Rafe is a "what" person. WoTtv deserved a "how" person. 

I know what you're saying, the only thing I'd point out is that I've been beat over the head on this board before (in the adaptation thread) about how big the drop off from EOTW to tGH to the rest of the book series likely was. Which means even among readers, too big a percentage of the audience abandoned the series because it was too derivative. 

The people who liked the EOTW and then finished all of WOT are a minority within a minority, and while I would love to be pandered to, I accept that they will make changes to try and expand the audience beyond that.

3 minutes ago, ashi said:

Or why not even kill her? We even have the subtle (salty sarcasm - the writers are surely not poetic wordsmiths) foreshadowing by Moiraine herself: "Whoever comes between the Dragon and the Dark One will die."

Only the Great Lord can make use of the dead...In the books, the Forsaken do not generally kill indiscriminately; they want servants and followers - willing or not - not corpses.

Moiraine did not come between the Dragon and the Dark One, hence, no issue.

42 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Kind of begs the question of why Ishamael didn't just still her though, doesn't it? He obviously could have. This whole situation just seems like a massive contrivance. 

Ishamael is in the process of trying to seduce Rand. Breaking one of his women - and LTT was always soft-hearted - would definitely reinforce him up as an enemy. If Rand does turn, and wants his toy back, he can turn her, unshield her, and give her back.

38 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

I've mentioned this before, but I'll do it again here since I never see it brought up. 

 

Originally, speculation was that the Stepin storyline was part of a Xanatos Gambit by Rafe in which 1.5 episodes would be dedicated to a minor character in order to set up the gravity of the Warder/Aes Sedai bond in preparation for that bond being severed when Moiraine "dies." 

 

Then Episode 8 happened. Moiraine has been stilled. In order to keep Rosamund Pike relevant, a new story has been created out of whole cloth for her and Lan in Season 2 during which Lan is likely to be struggling with the effects of a severed bond. 

 

So, if I'm right, then it seems that the Stepin stuff wasn't meant to set up a distant payoff, but to facilitate a totally show-original plotline for the purpose of retaining a prominent actress to keep the show marketable. 

Except if Moiraine is shielded, and not stilled, the Stepin speculation and foreshadowing is still valid, and Moiraine spends a season unable to channel before having Rand or Siuan untie the knot and remove the shield. 

Her ignorance at the Eye also lets her learn about the DR via the prophecies, now that she has the actual reality of Rand's birth and raising to act as a starting point. Knowing that Rand is the DR becomes the Rosetta stone for her to filter the prophecies for the truth, and we all learn them together.

23 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

True. Also not directed at you personally, but I do want to clarify something about my original post. 

 

I'm only referring to the fact that LotR leans into its core story despite the cliches (which were already old hat by 2001) whereas WoT seems afraid, almost ashamed of them. Rafe tries so hard to differentiate WoT by emphasizing ultimately superficial things when he should have just owned that EotW is somewhat derivative and that's okay. That's exactly what Robert Jordan did, after all. Focus on taking a well-worn but well-loved story archetype and just do it really, really, really, well. 

 

This approach brings in people who don't normally like fantasy as well as fans. Worked for Marvel. Worked for Star Wars. Worked for LotR. 

Thanks for not taking what I said personally ? . I kind of agree with what you're saying, but I do think there's some justification for the change. 

I think the big reason he's afraid - and it is fear, with both him and Amazon - is that EOTW was published 11 years before the Fellowship of the Ring movie, to an audience (fantasy book fans) who are more than comfortable with LOTR knock offs, and exploring different takes on the same Chosen One trope.  But where WoT was read by maybe 5-8 million pre-existing fantasy fans in total (I guarantee anyone who finished WoT has read a LOT of fantasy), the LOTR movies were seen by more than 30 million (897 million / 3 million / $10 ticket = 30 million people), a lot of whom weren't even fantasy fans. A lot of those casual fans might be put off by or ignore something that was too derivative (see SW ep4 vs BSG v1, or Buck Rogers), making it less likely that a close telling of EOTW / tGH would survive until it could show what makes it unique. 

Then Shannara (another blatant rip off) flopped, and people raved about GoT because it wasn't LOTR, so there is more proof that there is an audience for fantasy, but that it needs to be different for the broad appeal required to fund it; Xena's audience won't pay the bills.  And worse, GOT had already established another direction they couldn't go.  So what they have decided to do was prioritize the introduction of the concepts that made WoT uniquely itself (the Women, the Magic, the diverse cultures, the Asian philosophy), while downplaying or delaying the similarities to LOTR.

People rightly enjoy the MCU because they keep it's soul; they rightly hate the DCU because they don't. It's why I'm so concerned about where WoT goes with it's themes; the plot and even the characters can change, but if they don't keep it's thematic heart, they won't survive.

Oh, and as I've said previously, WoT will have a major second repositioning to manage, since books 4-5 are as derivative of Dune as book 1 is of LOTR.  And the stories will be running at the exact same time; it'll be impossible to miss.

1 minute ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Remember that when Peter Jackson was adapting Fellowship in 2001, the story of a chosen one whisked away on a grand adventure by a wise wizard to face ultimate evil was already  tired. Jackson could have been totally justified in saying, "People have seen this before! Sure, it was good enough for the 50's, but this is 2001, and the people need to see something new and fresh!" 

 

But he didn't. He believed in the source material. 

 

So congrats, Rafe. You changed WoT to make it less generic and somehow only made it even more generic. Nice. 

Not directed at you personally, but I am getting really, really tired of people using the "PJ didn't change LOTR, so why are they changing WOT". From my PoV, the thematic changes made in LOTR as a whole were much bigger and more impactful that the changes that have been made so far in WoT. They both made cuts and changes to the plots and characters, but we're not far enough in to know if Rafe is going to drop major themes; we know that Jackson did.

44 minutes ago, Daenelia said:

Dyes are easy. You can do a lot with simple householf stuff or flowers, or plants, or fruit. It is really easy to make dyes.

Except purple and blue. Hence their expense.

3 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

but as Lethira said, it is going to be a huge tone shift if all of a sudden they take the women in season 2 and sideline them as badly as they did the men in season 1. that, as is pointed out, can easily cause backlash against sidelining the female characters.

whereas if they just developed both equally there is no backlash about the situation to begin with.

But it won't be season 2...it will be season 8, and align with the books.  And that "sidelining" will be a natural result of their character and plot arcs moving into balance, and won't be anywhere near as jarring as season 1. But as I said, part of what I think they were going for in their decisions to overemphasize women in episode 1 was to get a "this is wrong!" reaction

13 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

really? you didn't see them utterly fail to develop the 3 boys at all during season 1?

provided they can actually write well. which I can't see that seeing as they have already power creeped the crap out of the show.

and so far the 3 boys have zero character. there development is almost nill. in many ways Mat went BACKWARDS. 

and what good character storys have we seen from the boys so far? nothing.

They literally spent the entire FIRST SEASON TRASHING THE MEN TO UPLIFT WOMEN.

what happened to the yin and yang? what happened to the men and women are equal but different? i saw NOTHING OF THE SORT.

I don't believe you'll accept anything that involves giving the showrunners any kind of a benefit of the doubt, because your position on the show is obvious and your mind is set in cuendillar, but let me give this one try:

Proposition 1 - The heart of WoT books is about the balance between Male and Female, and Light and Dark (book and series)

Proposition 2 - the World at the beginning of the Wheel of Time is drastically out of balance. (book and series)

Proposition 3 - Character arcs for all of the mains - males and females - run for 10-11 books (5-6 seasons)

Proposition 4 - There is no character growth in season 8 / book 14; it will be all plot (except Logain).

Proposition 5 - Most of season 1 was about world building and concept introductions, with no actual character arc movement during season 1, except where they actually moved characters backwards - Perrin, Mat, Nynaeve, Logain, Moiraine.

The show has decided to emphasize how out of balance the world is (prop 2) by overemphasizing the women, shoving the men into the background, and making them more subservient. The in-world setting and the show itself now has farther to go to meet proposition 1.

Since in any medium, you can't progress all major character and plot arcs (prop 3) at the exact same time, they are offsetting the character curves - they WILL NOT start or progress at the same time. This allows the show to:

1. Avoid characters not growing mid-series (cough, Perrin slog, cough).

2. Avoid character arcs taking too long and the audience getting frustrated at the lack of growth (Rand, Nynaeve, Elayne)

3. Spread the major character arc climaxes out across seasons 5 (Nyn), 6 (Egwene, Perrin) and 7 (Mat, Rand)- male and female- giving them enough time to shine, their conclusions to have been emotionally earned, and to provide the show with epic moments that can serve as the seasonal milestones.

Since starting the women's character arcs first aligns with the overemphasis on women at the start, we will get the women's conclusions in the middle, instead of the end. And by the end of the series, it will be the Boys' growth and plotlines that will dominate the narrative and show's runtime.

In season 8 / AMOL, I would have epic moments 5 or 6 : 1 male to female. In book 14, aside from Egwene, what woman accomplishes anything epic? Important, sure, but epic?

The cold reality is that in the same way that characters disappeared for entire books, they will do so in the series as well. But instead of being book 8 of 14, for a couple of them, it was season 1 of 8, and given Perrin and Rand's arcs end later in the books - and are really more important - keeping those climax moments where they are means starting their arcs later in the series.

I'm not saying that's what they're doing; I'm saying based on what they've shown, it's what they could be going for.  But as I said, I doubt you're open to that possibility.

2 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

See here is the problem - you're operating from the assumption of the books.

but we're already wildly deviated from that. Nothing I have seen shows me that this story is even going to follow the source material at all. 

If we were following the books I could absolutely agree with what you are saying and support it.

But we have already deviated from that.

Sorry, I 'm not sure I see any wild deviations that would prevent the character arcs I posted above from happening. I even think most of the character decisions they've made (A darker Mat with a worse family, Perrin fridging his wife, Nynaeve more scared of the power, Moiraine being more arrogant and ignorant (thanks @VooDooNut ) Rand more isolated and alone. All of those changes could align with, and even emphasize, the character journeys I mention. Not saying they will, I'm saying they can.

This is television - character is king. All of the plot point changes, and the hard magic system getting changed, and history getting changed. all of it is secondary to telling good character stories. I don't think they were all necessary, and I don't like all of them, but from a character perspective, I don't see them offside yet.

P.S. I will give you Lan's changes - I'm fine with his personality changes, but not the ones in his competence.

17 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

My biggest concern regarding S2 not solving the problems of S1 is the fact that they are going to still have Moiraine as main character, which again will drain minutes from EF5 ( and in particular EF3 since they splitted them...so either you rapidly bring them together again or you will need 3 separate subplots running).

So, we will again see the book plots heavily trimmed to give space and time to made-up plots to exploit Pike star-power

 

I expect there will be 4 plots running for most of the season, with the bulk given to Perrin and Egwene. Rand and Moiraine will then have separate plots. Mat will get tied into one of them - either Rand's or Egwene's, I'm guessing - mid season.

Inspired by @Skipp 's post, and one from @ashi in the full season review, here's a new one. I've been kind of improving about how I feel about the show being so drastically skewed towards women at the start.  Because if you think about the character arcs of the girls (as opposed to their plot arcs), they are basically over mid series, and while they have Capstone (good word) character moments later, they aren't moments of growth, they are moments of affirmation.

When Nynaeve breaks her block (thanks Moggy - we'd have that out of you no matter how loud you scream indeed), and she joyfully channels, that's it, she is herself, and exactly who she is at the end of AMOL. Her being raised is a great affirmation of that, but it isn't a change, it is an acceptance

For Egwene, I see her becoming completely herself when she continues to meet her toh after being summoned to Salidar. For all the big stuff she does after that point, she does not change as a character. Her moment of affirmation is then her fight with Mesaana in the Tower, but it is the core strength of the Aiel that takes the Seat, and the Amyrlin who does the rest .

Elayne does mature and settle down some, which is to the good. Aviendha's arc is wonderful, but kind of understated. The other secondary women - Tuon, Min, Siuan, Moiraine - don't really have character growth arcs at all.  I like Egeanin's, but I'm not even sure we're getting her.

OTOH, barring disaster, the boys should dominate a lot more of the latter part of the series from a growth perspective, and the culmination of their character arcs are a lot more visually spectacular. Of course the ultimate growth arc is Rand's with Veins of Gold, but Perrin's forging the hammer and allowing the banners to stay up, and Mat and Thom - who I assume will be really anti AS at some point - rescuing Moiraine are really the last major character growth moments. Even the final character growth moment in the entire series is a male's - Logain.

With all that, it's why I can see them putting so much more emphasis on the girls at the start - to make their mid-series climaxes (ugh - no double entendre intended) as impactful as possible. I'm not saying I trust this production team to pull it off, but if they are looking at telling the series as a single story, this could be a big  reason why.

9 hours ago, flinn said:

 Why would the cut out the Faile/Perrin slog.. didnt we just get an entire season of Perrin slog?

 

 Scene 1 Perrin mopes.

 Scene 2 Perrin mopes.

 Scene 3 Perrin mopes.

etc. etc.

Maybe this was part of rearranging the cards in the deck - they moved Perrin's wandering around with nothing to do for a season to season 1, instead of say, season 6. I'm kind of okay with him being in the background this year, since I know it's part of smoothing his character arc out so he doesn't evolve at all for 1/2 the series in the middle. Especially if we get a whole bunch of Wolfbrother stuff next season.

1 hour ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Well okay so how about your collective opinions on the following story arcs.  In or out and why?

 

Rand in the box and especially the battle of the Wells

 

Abduction of Faile and her attendants and the snow slog.

 

Elayne/Nyn et al Traveling with the circus

 

Matt/Tuon et al traveling with the same circus. 

 

Will we see Elayne's struggles/machinations to get the throne of Andor? 

 

Do we see the Seanchan as total big bad (murdering little girls on the beach) or do they bring peace and stability to where they conquer. 

 

 

 

 

My bet is we see all of those in the series, but some will be greatly reduced:

1 - as is; will actually be more brutal in a visual medium, and will eliminate the Shaido

2 - I'm thinking this will be Masema, not the Shaido, and much shorter than the books, a 1 season thing

3 - yup, although thankfully, it'll only be for a couple of episodes

4 - see 3

5 - the only one I have doubts about, but they may give her 1/2 a season or so

6 - nope, they won't be one dimensional; too much blow back about Mat's prophecy if they were

1 minute ago, VooDooNut said:

It also speaks to how imperfect/unreliable the oaths really are, but more so how much faith the characters place on the oaths, which I interpret as a running theme in the series (books and show). Aes Sedai cannot speak a word that is not true, but they can certainly imply for days, to the point that they aren't really speaking truthfulness anyway.

It also ties into Egwene's observations about the channellers in other cultures, who aren't sworn to serve, but don't seem to be feared or distrusted (Kin, Wise Ones, Windfinders)