2 hours ago, Tamal said:

Good move. Definitely better suited here!

As for your post:

 

Not suprisingly, my favourite movie is the first one. Yet, even though the last two aren't as good, the equivalency simply does not exist. Someone with time on their hands could of course tabulate locations the two different "fellowships" travel to, characters they meet, and divide them (as you allude to with you Helm's Deep argument) by text spent on them in the books, but the LotR movies would simply come out vastly higher on a "adaption scale"-variable. I don't have that time, but if you have read both the EotW and LotR recentlt, that is easily apparent.

 

Some small examples are Caemlyn, Elayne, Morgase, Elyas, Elaida being completely absent in the show. 

 

The comparison makes even less sense when you then factor in changes to the story from the EotW (books). The rulebreakings of healing, saidin/saidar, the "breaking of the fellowship" before the Eye of the World. Aginor and Balthamel gone, Stepin as a major character, Liandrin in the woods as opposed to in Tar Valon. Tar Valon itself. Perrin killing his wife.

 

It is an argument without merit in my view. 

 

Now, the worst crimes the show does, together with the changes to the story and the book's very soul, is how it absolutely decimates critical developmental moments in the characters and the characters motivations. 

 

Gimli is not character assassinated in the movies because he provides some extra laughter. He also does that in the books. He is shown both places to be a proud, fierce, honourable, trusty companion that also provides comic relief. I would have loved to seen more of Faramir in the movies, and that they had not dragged out the ring debacle. Still: He is honourable, he does'nt die, he rejects the ring. He is intact. 

 

The Scouring of the Shire. I'm thankful that they skipped that one in the movie, even though it meant they had to let Saruman and Grima go in another way. Still, Saruman as a figure is intact. His motivations, his personality, his main arc is the same. It gave them time to focus on more important things from the books in the story.

 

In the EotW show, Lan is extremely more incompetent than in the books. Mat is somehow inherently evil, instead of shouting out war cries in the old tongue and shooting trollocs with arrows. Rand has almost no struggles with the questions of his parentage. Elaidas questioning, the dialogue with Gawyn, gone. He has lost his defining moment at the end. 

Perrin kills his non-existant wife. I could go on. 

 

Even though the adaption level of EotW(show) vs LotR (movies) is a useless comparison in my view, the most important thing, and saddest, is that the EotW show is just a terrible show. 

Compared to e.g. Game of Thrones, Lord of The Rings, which are great shows and movies. 

 

 

 

 

 

And here we have the heart of the issue - it's not that LOTR didn't have major changes, it's that you agree with the changes they made.  So you're downplaying them.  And Jackson basically said "Tolkien didn't get this right" in a number of interviews. as has Judkins.  So there's no purity test from the directors, either.

I don't agree with many of the changes that were made in WoT, and have been vocal about them.  A lot of small decisions smack of bad writing in the Hollywood tradition. But for the most part, I understand the decisions they're making in the context of a pandemic produced season 1 of a TV show when more than 1/2 of the content of the series needs to get dropped.  So I at least have some belief that they will be able to produce an internally consistent version of WoT. Even if it's not exactly like the books.

48 minutes ago, Cranglevoid said:

In regard to LTT, I really hope they flesh out the whole situation surrounding the decision to try to seal in the DO. They need to emphasize that this was an act of desperation and lack of better alternatives at the end of a bloody war, rather than him just being over-confident and full of pride.

We may get some in his convo's with Rand, but I wouldn't count on many more full flashbacks, beyond the Prologue.

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

Rand is my favorite and these ideas are certainly interesting. I also think he will be shown a lot more from other's POV. Of course we need some from his own to really get the difference between them. The books did show us that here and there but not very often.

While I would agree that there should be some of Rand's - and will have to be in some of his solo wanderings - aside from his convo's with LTT and Min, I don't think we get any of his self-doubt, and all of his actions

9 hours ago, Tamal said:

The changes made to The Lord of the Rings are miniscule compared to the complete rewriting we have seen in season one of the WoT-show. I was an absolute nerd about the Tolkien books and remembered even the most ridiculous details from the books, including Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and the other less known ones. I remember being shakingly nervous when going to the cinema to see the first one.

 

I loved it. They had removed inconsequential things to focus on the core of the story, and all the characters had their personalities intact. I still found the main characters from the book in the movie appealing, and none had their reputations damaged or big scenes taken away. 

 

In the WoT-show on the other hand, we have the equivalent of Legolas taking down the Balrog in Moria instead of Gandalf. And it's just the tip of an iceberg of disgraceful decisions made by the showrunners. A crying shame. 

Moving my response since this might be better suited in the adaptation thread. And to show how personal head canon can be, I would say that WoT has not yet made any single change anywhere near as massive as the decision to cut the Scouring of the Shire and leave the hobbits at home innocent of the horrors of war and industrialization. While I despise the Battle of Tarwin's Gap, it certainly didn't eliminate one of the major themes of the entire series by having the women do it instead of Rand.

I also don't think they left Gimli's personality intact ("throw me!"). They gave Faramir an entire movie's worth of "I'm taking the ring" because Jackson didn't think anyone could be that good. All while killing Saruman off screen and turning Helm's Deep - with help from the Elves even!- into a sixth of the entire series by run time. He had Sam leave Frodo on the stairs, and had Frodo stare down one of the 9 in Osgiliath, which would have been the ballgame. Fellowship may have a higher degree of fidelity, but the series as a whole didn't.

And for the record - I think LoTR was a much easier project than WoT will be. It has fewer cityscapes and locations / costumes, fewer cultures, far fewer named characters (there are more Aes Sedai in the books who will matter than all the named characters in LoTR), and to be honest, a lot less magic and SFX shots to be added in post production. And for all that it was a brutal 18 months of principle photography, LoTR was over and done with in about 2 1/2 years rom the time filming started. WoT will be a 10 year commitment for all involved.

Now - compare both of these series to the Harry Potter series, which has a much higher degree of fidelity. But they also were simpler in plot, tone, character, and setting. And had a built in audience that dwarf's WoT or LOTR, so more fidelity was both possible and required.

17 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

I agree that we'll see more of Rand from the external perspective and that will at times make him less sympathetic than in the books, and the show will play up whether or not he's making the right decisions or could turn to the dark. But they have to make him at least somewhat appealing, otherwise it's not going to be very believable that 3 separate smart and generally upstanding ladies are madly in love with him and have so much confidence in him.

Except he and Elayne already get roasted as a high school crush - and that was before they dropped Camelyn. Avi is basically ordered to engage with him (something about a marriage wreathe or putting her in his bed), and Min was fatalistic due to her visions. So they'll be able to argue that none of them chose him of their own free will. Assuming we get all 3 relationships as written anyway

Min will get all of the angsty weight of the world stuff, Avi will get the fighting spirit and not quitting view, and Elayne will get the practical intelligence view. But the audience will have to pay attention to put it all together.

What I think they’re doing.

AKA “Many of the truths we cling to are only true from a certain point of view” – some lying M.F.’er

TLDR; I think the way Rafe and Co. are going to tell the Wheel of Time is through everyone’s PoV, except Rand’s, with the focus on the various women in his life. The others will get solid PoV’s, but Rand’s solo stuff will be very limited. All the talk about untrustworthy narrators is because we won’t know what’s going on in Rand’s head, and most everyone will be wrong.

To support that, most of Rand’s early super-epic saviour stuff will be eliminated, and the scary / dangerous channeller dude will be emphasized. And it’s not that he does nothing – he will still do the biggest things at the end – but almost all his epic moments – except 3 (Balefiring Graendal’s retreat, the  cleansing, and the sealing) – will either be cut, or done by others. As they mostly are in the books after book 4.

Consider:

All 5 of the dropped (ie non-statue) Forsaken were killed during combat / battle with Rand involved (Rand not always responsible). Of those remaining, only Sammael and Ishamael were killed around Rand. If we lose Moridin, he won't kill Ishamael until the very end. If we lose Osan’gar, I expect Sammael is the one Graendal binds for balefiring. But otherwise, Rand plays no part in dealing with the Forsaken.

By dropping the Eye, we lost Tarwin’s Gap, and the deaths of Aginor and Balthamel. By dropping sword training, we won’t get Turak or Be’lal or a man in the sky or sheathing the sword. Without Rahvin, there’s no raid on Camelyn, and undoing the deaths there. If Tear is cut for time, there is likely no chain lightning through the Stone.

And after Rhuidean, Rand is a leader, doing philosophical things, disrupting cultures, and taking over the world. But he is not doing it himself in an epic fashion. He is Caesar, not Alexander. And according to the modern interpretation of history, Caesar was a villain.

Also, by not giving us Rand’s PoV:

1. they get to emphasize the similarity to LTT, leading to a possible repeat of the cycle, and the fear and terror of everyone who comes in contact with him except the main 6 and his 3 girls.

2. they can play with the Lanfear seduction angle for a long time.

3. they can paint him as a tyrant – hanging nobles and Aiel alike, without much inner conflict, or only through Min’s PoV.

4. Rand’s manhandling of Egwene / Elayne, his conversations with LTT, finding the access keys, his treatment of the Aes Sedai after DW, and his targeting of Graendal all take on a new terrifying aspect.

5. the fears of Elaida, Sorilea, Cadsuane, and others can all be played up.

Without changing most of the post DR plot beats, once the decision is made to eliminate the Forsaken they did, it’s going to be very easy to set this whole thing up as “Is Rand Al’Thor going to save the world, or destroy it?” And without seeing what’s in his head, it will be easy to paint the actual series plot milestones in a very different light. Without actually changing them.

And without changing those major plot beats, they have the ability to tell a pretty unique story – the story of a chosen one who actually doesn’t get to do anything that a chosen one does.  So it will be The Wheel of Time. Only one that is told from a different point of view.

If you are emotionally attached to Rand, you're likely to despise this series; if your faves are other than Rand, you should be fine.  Because they will all get their moments. But until Veins of Gold, I think the whole point of the series is to convince the audience that Rand is likely to destroy the world. 

1 hour ago, Carebear Sedai said:

 

I'm certain they'll find a way to have Rand join the Shienaran search party. Perhaps he'll be overtaken by trollocs and they'll rush in at the opportune time to save him. Since Ingtar is a darkfriend, he could well have orders to get close to Rand. 

 

I'm not surprised about Masema. I was as certain they'd keep him, just as I was certain about Thom, and for the same reason. The prophet plotline introduces intrigue, the kind of which is what modern prestige TV laps up. It's worth keeping if just for the twist at the end, with Faile assassinating him behind Perrin's back. 

 

 

I have a hard time believing the show is gonna convolute that storyline. We saw the black stuff leave Mat's body--the same black stuff that had been the visual representation of the SL evil. Show viewers have no reason to think that he hasn't been entirely healed, and to turn that around and say he wasn't, they'll likely feel cheated and confused. Not very smart to confuse viewers with a complex series as is.

 

With Moiraine's request, they've given themselves another route to get Mat where he needs to be by season 2. Whatever the red ajah/black ajah do to him can stand in for the physical/neural damage he sustains from the dagger. It's better storytelling in a show narrative, since it gives Mat added reasons to be wary of Aes Sedai, and it gives the black ajah some wins. 

 

I'm also gonna have to disagree about the importance of keeping the Falme story as it is. The Seanchan being defeated has no longterm relevance. They're back in two books. And Geofram Bornhald is prime to lead his army and die to fight them--perhaps giving Egwene and the girls a way to escape the madness. Otherwise, the horn being blown, Rand vs Ishamael, Ingtar's sacrifice etc. can all be done at Tear. Better there as Moiraine can be an active participant (by balefiring a forsaken), rather than sit on the sidelines because of the Seanchan. 

Except the AS abuse of Mat won't explain him looking like death warmed over in episode 8, when he hasn't reached the Tower yet, or been taken. In the books, Moiraine's healing in Camelyn was incomplete. I expect it is here as well. The torture could also be from attempts to heal him without the dagger.

Using the Horn in Tear makes little sense; there's no army there so powerful that requires the Heroes to fight off; the Seanchan are that threat. And without a statue, my working premise at this point is there is no High Lord Samon in Tear. Also, we have no idea if Moiraine will be healed by that point; I kind of doubt it.

Of the book endings between tGH and tDR, I kind of think Falme does more to set up the rest of the story (the Horn, Mat / Egwene with the Seanchan, Perrin and the Whitecloaks, Rumors of Rand, the Prophet). The only key carry forwards from Tear are Callandor, Rand meeting the Aiel and canoodling with Elayne, and Perrin with Berelain. I think those are easier to move to other places than it is to give Mat a reason to blow the horn.

It's not that I don't think you could be right, I just think it's a helluva lot easier to keep Falme and lose Tear than the other way around.

44 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Because the "heroic ideal" is boring and flat.  There's nothing interesting there, it's a power fantasy for people to escape into and imagine being this generic super cool dude.

As for Captain America, that was a deconstruction too.  He was only the perfect hero so long as no one crossed what he personally defined as good.  There's a reason he's the wrong side of Civil War despite his "Win" at the end.  There's a reason Chris Evans openly states Cap is being selfish and wrong.  

“Captain America has always put the needs of the masses before his own desires,” Evans said at a Beverly Hills press conference for the film. “That is exactly what is different in this film. Instead of dedicating himself to what others need, he prioritizes what he wants, which is a departure. It colors the character in a really nice way. It is hard to find ways to make this guy, who is this incredibly austere and moral character, lighter and more dynamic, but in this movie he becomes potentially selfish.”  (https://parade.com/475162/paulettecohn/captain-america-civil-war-star-chris-evans-on-cap-getting-selfish/)

The only reason he ends up back on the "Right" side is because a global catastrophe kills literally half the population and destabilizes the government.  Then when that stability might be coming back he bails to go have his own life deciding he's done enough good.

He has depth and ultimately is the story of a hero who eventually goes "Wait, why do I have to be a hero?"  And stops.

Now if Lan's character arc in the books had been deciding he could put down the mountain just a little bit and have his happiness with Nynaeve, you'd have an argument.

But that's not his arc.  His arc is:

  Reveal hidden contents

Wants to suicide against the Blight.  Moraine convinces him there's a better way to fight, he becomes her confidante and guarding.  He is relatively unchanging from books 1-5, showing emotion only to push Nynaeve away and to be angry at Moraine because she won't let him have his suicide if she dies (And because she takes away his agency).  

At book 5 he leaves only because he is compelled to.  He then goes to stay with Nynaeve, again on orders, where he finally opens a LITTLE bit to her and they get married.  It seems like maybe he's going to develop as a character here but....

Nope, still wants to suicide against the Blight to no purpose what-so-ever.  Only fails at this because Nynaeve tricks him.  

 

I guess we have a difference of opinion on this topic.  The point to the heroic ideal in a story is to give our flawed characters (or the audience) an example to strive for morally, which is why the ideal needs to go away so our hero can stand on his (or her) own.  But it's why Hollywood can't get Superman right; they just don't get him. doing the right thing for the right reason is so foreign to people now, that they can't relate to it in characters. As you say, people think it's boring, and flat, and passe. Oh yeah - and don't forget completely unbelievable - it actually offends people to see it on screen. It's an old-fashioned notion, I guess.

Off topic - we're definitely on different sides of the Civil War Debate; the whole point is if something is wrong, it doesn't matter if "the system" says it's right.  We have ultimate personal responsibility for our morality, and if you choose not to act in the way you feel to be moral because other people tell you not to, you have compromised your own essence.  Even Evans misses it, because doing something just because "the masses" want it doesn't make it right.  It might make it legal, but right and legal are often two different concepts. the entire point of the story (in comics context) is that after 70 years as a moral compass, if you're against Captain America, you're on the wrong side.

Back on topic example: Galad is the most moral person in the Wheel of Time, and most people consider him a villain, like Elayne does. So what does that say about the readers? He still has an arc to go through - accepting that people can be good and still fall short of his ideal, but does developing empathy and his desire to still be an example mean he was immoral at the beginning? It's the same lesson Raen learns.

Lan Spoilers

48 minutes ago, bombadillio said:

Everyone I know who did not read the books would watch again. 

 

All had the same complaints:

1. Why such shoddy CGI 

2. Why so short

3. Is a survivor contestant with no clear track record the right man for the job? Why didn't they choose someone with experience like a Peter Jackson or Favreau?

1 - lack of budget, lack of time, lack of in room reviews and editing due to Covid. D; all of the above

2 - Amazon wanted 8 episodes. Rafe wanted 10. So your answer is money.

3 -Peter Jackson would probably cost more than their entire per episode budget, and Favreau might be close to that. $10 million is nothing in Hollywood terms. Be thankful we got someone who has actually been a showrunner (AoS) before.

5 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Lan is static until Ebou Dar.  He is a generic he-man tough guy with a few moments with Nynaeve until we start getting in his head in the later books.

So I'd have to ask.  What development?  I'm not accusing you of wanting Static, I'm saying the people claiming Lan isn't like he is in the book are flat out saying they want the static version of him that's just kinda there for 5 books before disappearing for a while.

Yes, we are. We want to see Hollywood stop pissing all over the concept of the heroic ideal as a viable character archetype.  Aside from Captain America, every male hero of the last 30 years has had to learn to be a hero, instead of just being one. It's not a Rafe issue, or a Lan issue. Surprise us but not using the same "become the King you were born to be" useless arc that's been done to death

3 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

So criminal offenses are okay if they're constantly happening? That's a load of bunk.

I think this is where some attorney argues about Freedom of Speech and no specific intent or action, and why it's not a criminal offense.

I agree with your position, but until Twitter and Facebook mandate the blue checkmark system, internet warriors will continue to hide behind their keyboards to act tough.

3 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

Is your "their" supposed to include me?   Because I find it a bit insulting to have someone tell me how I think or feel.   I bet I am not alone in that sentiment.

 

And I'm sorry, as much I respect a lot of what you write, but it is not wanting things to be STATIC to want characters to act as they were in the first few books or a 14 book saga during the first season of a TV show as opposed to having them act as they are in the last two or three books in said saga almost from the very beginning of the show.  It is wanting characters to be representative of who they are at the beginning of a story instead of skipping to how they are at the end of a story and leave them some room for growth.  Hence my contention that Lan has been butchered.  

Lan has been butchered exactly the same way Aragorn was in Fellowship of the Ring, Arthur Curry was in Aquaman, Hal Jordan was in Green Lantern, and a bunch I'm too distracted to think of right this second. I fully agree with your position, but this IS NOT a Lan specific issue. this is Hollywood refusing to accept a fully realized hero who does not require a heroic journey arc from minute 1.

9 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Greta of the family Thunbergs..very old and distinguished family.

I win again, Lews Thunberg...

Except my assumption is episodes 1-6 were basically in the can when they found out - they had a year for editing / FX on those episodes before Mar 2021. Which is why there's the weird recut / reshoot ending on Ep. 6 ("mat! Mat!!" ) with pre-existing footage of Harris.  So they were in a bad starting point, and couldn't retroactively establish a Perrin / Fain relationship, and so were left with no relationship between the EF5 and Fain.  Then they screwed the pooch with the dagger - and Fain with the dagger IS CRITICAL to season 2 - and so we're left with a steaming pile in Episodes 7 and 8 vis-a-vis Fain

Oh, and for the record I f'ing dare Hollywood to cry breach of contract for a personal family health issue.  Even if the show was entitled to legally, they'd get wrecked in the media. So I consider the fact that there hasn't been a breach suit completely null. We don't know why Harris left, but I can almost guarantee he didn't bail for some simple conscience reason. A no name actor with an 8 year guaranteed gig for Amazon? No f'ing way.

4 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

Well how do you know Moiraine won't blame the 'they' who wrote the script? ?

Because it's not Ferris Beuller's Day Off or Rand Al'Thor and the Holy Grail? ?

although, crap, Demandred's Sa'angreal is the Sang Real...holy shit...never made that connection.

1 hour ago, DigificWriter said:

The notion that Rafe and his team had to 'scramble' because Barney Harris just didn't show back up at Jordan Studios when production resumed in April of 2021 is a fallacy.

Hypothetically, his wife / mother / child came down with some semi-fatal disease in March, 2021. you still sure they had all sorts of lead time? I get all the contract stuff you're saying, but I can still come up with instances (Viggo Mortensen, for example) where they replaced a principle actor with less than 72 hours notice.

We DON'T KNOW why Barney Harris did not come back, and to assume standard Hollywood contract behaviour is not fair to him or the production. Nor can we assume how much warning the Production had that he wasn't coming back.

1 hour ago, SingleMort said:

Doesn't that mean they'd need to admit they screwed up healing him the first time? In the books they were very clear that the healing wasn't complete but it felt like they were saying it was in the show. 

nope, just that Moiraine was wrong. not some mysterious "they"

2 minutes ago, Khan of Shadows said:

This is where I wonder how much of what's wrong with this show is Rafe vs. the suits. Because the lowest common denominator, lack of faith in the audience present in a lot of their choices has the feel of corporate meddling for me. Perrin hates violence because he killed his wife, Lan has to show more emotion, as if there aren't legions of folks who would be drawn to/inspired by a selfless bad ass stoic samurai, etc. We're constantly being told about the difference between TV vs. books, but a lot of these explanations seem to reflect inside the box thinking/misunderstanding of what people actually want. 

The changes to both Perrin and Lan are Hollywood tropes - Perrin's even has a name it's used so often. And one of the big problems loyal book readers are going to have is that it will be impossible to tell when Rafe ends and the suits begin on those types of changes. In these specific cases, I tend to blame Rafe more, since he could have accomplished the same goals in different ways inside his take on the story. Rafe also definitely gets the credit / blame for the Who is the Dragon? decision and approach, and all that lead to.

The suits deserve the blame for not giving the show enough running time / episodes to build up the EF5 through small character moments / training / conversations. And for not giving the production team enough time / budget to adjust properly for Covid and Barney's departure. Most of episode 8's issues are probably on the Suits, or Covid, and not the Production team's "fault"

16 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

<snip>

It does make me wonder if we will ever see Emmonds Field again though. Will they have time for both?

Yep - Perrin to EF when the group splits up from Tear (I expect Battle of EF is the big budget end to S3, with Rand in Rhuidean) , and then deals with the Prophet after DW in season 5. plenty of time

1 hour ago, Carebear Sedai said:

Looking back at season one and how rushed much of it felt, I pray Rafe won't try to cram everything that happens in TGH and TDR into one season. Better to streamline the two story arcs to the TDR final by having Padan Fain lead the search for the horn to Tear instead of Falme.

 

Plotline 1: 

Perrin, Loial (tainted by the dagger perhaps), Moiraine and Lan join the search for the horn to Tear. But otherwise follow the story beats of their TDR arc (meet Faile, free Gaul, Fight Be'lal?)

 

Plotline 2:

Rand travels to Tear for the same reasons as in the books. Only difference is the journey which follows his TGH plot (portal stones, meeting Selene, ends up travelling with the shienaran army).  The only difference is I don't think he'll end up in Cairhein.

 

Plotline 3:

Mat gets captured and tortured by the red ajah (many of whom are black ajah) per Moiraine's request inciting his series long fear of Aes Sedia. He's healed at the White Tower and follows his TDR plot, with a minor change. Instead of going to Caemlyn I think he and Thom end up in Cairhein where his ta'veren impact replaces Rand's part there. Thom kills the king and they flee the city on the verge of a civil war to end up in Tear.

 

Plotline 4: 

The girls start at Tar Valon and meet Elayne, end up being tricked by Liandrin and taken to Falme. At this point I think it would likely be mid-season and once they flee, they'll end up chasing Liandrin and the black sisters on their own volition to Tear.

 

Right or not, I hope they simplify the plot where they can so they'll be able to do the things they will choose to do justice. 

The only challenges to this I'd make is that we know Barthanes has been cast, and probably Suroth. So I think the Horn / Dagger makes it to Cairhien, and from their to the DO's seal at Falme. And I can see Moiraine being roped in as well, to increase Rand's distrust of her

and I guarantee Mat can't be fully healed without the dagger.  As I said in my post, I don't know how it happens, but Fain, the Dagger, Mat, the Horn and the Girls all end up in Falme. somehow. He's the most important of the boys to the Falme / Seanchan story.

37 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

One other issue with Rand not chasing the Horn/Fain and not travelling with the Shienarans is not having any relationship with Masema. His becoming the Prophet will perhaps not have the same impact if we don't see his initial contempt for Rand.

 

I must admit I was surprised to hear he was cast as I thought Masema and the Prophet was something they would cut from the show.

 

 

Suffice to say, I can see Masema dying on this trip, or I can see the Prophet taking over Post DW Faile storyline with Perrin. Doesn't need Rand, much, assuming we get the fight in the sky. No sky fight, no prophet, no Masema.

1 minute ago, KakitaOCU said:

Rand could push them out of Falme if they go that route, but I don't think they'll leave, I think they'll be pushed back and be a threat throughout the Tanchico and Ebou Dar arcs.

They won't give it to Rand, and that's what I mean, they're gone until Ebou Dar. I doubt they're in play in Tanchico.

4 hours ago, SingleMort said:

Honestly I've seen a lot of people say they'll be okay with big cuts so long as they don't cut one of their favourite moments. But I think it's inevitable that some will be cut. And honestly even stuff like Mat using the horn is something I can see cut I mean does it really affect anything going forward? I like the Falme scene, the horn, Whitecloaks charge, Rand's fight but I can't help wondering if that and many other iconic scenes will make the show. Don't forget that cost will also be a big factor in showing these things. I'm betting the ending of season 2 will be closer to the book 3 ending than the book 2 one because it would likely be more cost effective for them to show that. Also I have a feeling that having the Seanchan be driven off then come back is also something that will be cut so that's another reason I don't think the Falme battle will happen.

Except without pushing the Seanchan out of Falme, our heroes can't really get away. And it's the heroes of the horn that push the Seanchan out of Falme, not the Whitecloaks or Rand.  So you have 3-4 episodes with the Seanchan now, and then you pick them back up in season 5-6. But if they don't leave, they're an active threat instead of being a non-factor for half the series

3 hours ago, Mirefox said:

Wow…

 

It may have shown up in other interviews but this is the first time I’ve ever seen Rafe confirm that it is a question of romantic love.  I thought it was generally poorly done but if they had tried to explain it off as fraternal love or some sort of protector relationship it wouldn’t have been as bad.  He’s just doubling down on the dumb ideas, huh?

The thought I had after watching episode 8 - it wasn't his love for Egwene that Perrin gave up on when Rand and she were betrothed. It was his love for Rand. Because, reasons.

5 hours ago, nsmallw said:

In Season 1 , Rand is in the Tower library and sees the prophecy book ( id butcher the title lol). 

 

Does anyone think they'll bring it into the show or was that scene just an Easter egg. 

I think it's in the series, and Moiraine's going to spend a lot of time with it in S2.