i hadn't really thought about it, but since this thread is about how I would have started it - and I wouldn't have had Rafe's agenda - I would open it with the Blood Snow with Tam, then cut to the Foretelling intro'ing Moiraine / Siuan, then roll the opening credits. No mystery for the audience, a dead seer showing why the Dragon being reborn is so terrifying, and then cut to black. Out of the credits, have a moving camera track over the terrain in a breezy sort of fashion until it comes across Rand and Tam heading to the Two Rivers and seeing the Fade. If you wanted to play a mystery up, have the wind stop when the boys are sitting at a table outside the Winespring, instead of the walk in, and have them each talk about seeing a stranger in a cloak - it avoids the Nazgul in the Shire visual. I then would probably move Liandrin's gentling intro to episode 3 after Egwene / Moiraine / Rand talk about who Aes Sedai are going into Shadar Logoth, and saves the first major One Power display for Moraine on Winter's Night. it also needs to happen before Logain gets intro'ed TV isn't like books and movies; audience's need linear because of the time gap between the first and last episode isn't measured in hours, it's measured in months. This isn't about "fixing" what I don't agree with Rafe on - fixing Mat, Perrin, and Maxsim - just moving stuff around to create a more linear story to hook the audience in the characters first, and deal with the world building later

I feel sorry for the true fans of the show, and for the rest of us who had new WoT Content to debate and discuss and speculate about, on this forum and elsewhere. I am somewhat surprised, mainly since the streaming services never struck me as particularly money smart. But in a lot of ways, this was doomed by a reverse slog - instead of being good through great with a slog in the middle, the slog on this one is right up front, and the show never really recovered. There's no point in pointing the finger at any one thing in particular - the pandemic, the actor switch, the lack of financial and time commitment, Rafe's personal agenda, the basic Hollywood disdain for genre heroic fiction, the impossibility of satisfying the core audience, too complicated a world to make clear for a new audience, the author's over reliance on similar concepts from recent classics (LoTR, Dune), the fact that it wasn't similar enough to others (GoT), Trump's external production tariffs, None of which changes the fact that if it were better, it would have survived, but it didn't. In my 50 years of life, I can count the number of genre projects that caught the popular zeitgeist on one hand (Star Wars 4-6, LoTR, Matrix 1, GoT 1-4, MCU Phase 1-3) and maybe another handful that were both critically great in spots and commercially successful (Jurassic Park, BSG, Buffy, Deadpool, the Expanse, some Star Trek, others) But history is full of failed projects that didn't land right, or didn't find an audience; shows with interesting premises that weren't given time to grow; shows that exceeded the abilities of their talent to deliver. Shows that had a good idea that couldn't sustain a movie, let alone a series. thanks to the community for sometimes making the site sometimes more enjoyable that the show, and to the moderators for keeping it going. now we wait for the next turning of the wheel, and enjoy the books whenever we want.

okay, some time is passed, I had a bit of a break, and am now ready to pass judgement: overall, I think this season was a massive step up in quality from the first two, and while I dislike the rather large holes created in the book plot by losing Siuan and Loial - and to a lesser degree Sammael - I'm okay with the cuts for time. I'd give it a solid B for good TV, and a C for adaptation I think they went a long way in getting the boys positioned where they should be, although there is some trepidation around this Faile / Perrin rescue arc, and with getting Mat to form the Band. I guess they could do that against the Seanchan instead of the Shaido. I still think the girls are overpowered, but am loving the fact that I'm enjoying Faile and Elayne more than I did in the books. And they still haven't been rescued yet. "I don't need no man" as Character, Theme and Plot, I guess The Forsaken (and the rest of the villains for that matter) are worlds more interesting and effective in the show than in the books. While I wish the writers would take more care with the lore - the 3 oaths are flexible, can men see women channel or not, Mat's memories - only three things really annoy me about the series, since they are the mistakes the writers are consistently making: 1. Maksim taking a lead role; he's had much more screen time and done more than Lan has. 2. Super Egwene - they are robbing her of her hero's journey. It's not as bad as Rey, but it's getting there. 3. The healing - this is the biggest complaint. it removes a lot of drama, and creates questions about whether or not people are actually dead. So much that the writers make fun of it. In closing I guess I'll leave it at this - it's good enough to get me to keep watching it, but it's not good enough to make me want to rewatch it. Which certainly wasn't true for the books, or the first few seasons of GoT. So they still have room to improve. Assuming people let them continue at all

I agree on the budget issue, but think that the individual episodes and special effects (barring the lack of Trollocs attacking the Two Rivers) has been well done. The only thing I think a bigger budget would give us is more time, and that would be critical in a number of ways.

I think they'll get to this. I expect the next season will have a lot more Rand / Avi time, at which point the Maidens' culture will emerge as we learn with Rand.

He made some group appearances, and was in league with Mesaana and Semirhage throughout the series. But it wasn't until he showed up with the Sharans that we knew what he was up to. There were a couple of hints, but can't recall if they were in Brandon books or RJ books. While I'm concerned about a number of the directions they might take, one big one is that in Tarmon Gaidon, there are really 4 Channeler armies on the light side (AS, Seanchan, Wise Ones, Kin) , and just 1 on the dark (Shara) with one split - the Black Tower. Without introducing Shara and Demandred, then TG will boil down to girls against the boys, the Egwene/ Taim piece will happen, but we lose Mat & Lan vs / Demandred, and they get to show girl power triumphant instead of the balance.

The other thing I expect it to do is make it more of an impact if / when it does happen. I'm leaning more and more towards Moraine is Cadsuane, so I don't know if they'll play it as a fake out, or if they go through the Mayene Door in Tear late next season, and they move Mat's rescue up in order to get Moraine back in time to be Caddy, plus break the bond and send Lan to Nynaeve.

I second that the politics is important; it shows that even in the face of armaggeddon, people will not align as a single force for good. People - good and evil - will still politic for personal advantage, and it's way harder to overcome that any old Dark One. It's fundamental to the story to show all these conflicts, because it's fundamental to being a human being (which ties into the free will discussion in AMOL) Now, does it have to be Siuan? Nah...Leanne can fill part of the role after she's stilled, and Verin can fill the counselor role, which will have another big advantage later on. Or Leanne can do both. Or Sheriam's still around, I think.

um. based on what Moggy did to Sammael, in this case the cutting room floor was in the episode.

The thing for me with the Fox is that the room should have been so much less bright - not only would shadow and darkness added to the creepy vibe and helped give it the feel of a fox's den, but it also would have helped tone down the bright cartoony feel. I guess, similar to my overall opinion of the show, it was nowhere near as good as I'd hoped, but could have been worse. But unlike the show, I knew this was going to need to be an accept it and move past it, and pray it wasn't laughably bad, which it wasn't

I had to give that up thanks to Lord of the Rings; when even the best fantasy adaptation makes hollywood adjustments to comply with modern audience sensibilities and expectations, I would lose all ability to enjoy any adaptation because I don't agree with the modern viewing public on most of this stuff. Dune is a stunning visual masterpiece, deserving of the oscar nominations it got, and a wonderfully acted and plotted story. But as good as it is, 2 small changes completely undermined, and almost inverted, the books key theme of free will versus predestination, blind obedience versus truth to power, and freedom versus commitment. Because in the book, Paul was a slave to his fate, Stilgar was the voice of peace and the old ways, and Chani stuck by her man as a concubine - all completed subverted in the movies ending.

oops - you're right; they weren't the 3 prophecies, they were prophecies 4-6 on the first visit. I don't think he's had the die / live moment - I think that is the Camelyn death, not the hanging. Because in the books, it's not the hanging that separates him from the Horn, and that live again moment also serves the purpose of removing Rahvin from the board. In the immortal words of miracle Max, Mat was only mostly dead from the hanging and i guess here's a way to get rid of Tuon - the Seanchan replace the Sharans, with Semirhage taking Demandred's place with them. After all, we need an army of Dreadlords from somewhere. But I still think Mat / Tuon happens more or less as in the books; I'd be quite pissed if they don't introduce the moral quandary of "these people own slaves, but serve the light", and simply make all of Seanchan dark friends.

Obviously, the WoT team got the original scripts for GoT, which were all labelled "The Art of Penetration', and thought they meant actual swords. Because no one in the WoT writer's room understands euphemism, nuance, or subtlety.

Hey, I was right on this one...Alviarin took Siuan's head

The Rhuidean warning was his first trip - the second one was "to live, and die, and live again, to wed the daughter of the nine moons, and to the give up half the light of the world" And all 3 of those moments can easily be post Tear And I guarantee we get Tuon. They killed Turak and Renne, and broke Suroth. We're not with the Seanchan yet, and they need a new leader; hence, Tuon I have no complaints with the Fox - better than a lot of fantasy near humans, and he go the hunger right