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Windigo

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Posts posted by Windigo

  1.   On 11/27/2021 at 7:35 PM, phoenixtrinity said:

    Hello fellow FF14 fan!

     

    I agree it was a very cool moment. I've been speculating Nynaeve accidentally created light and what Logain commented as the sun wasn't the weaves (which he can't see) but the "goosebumps" male channelers get in the books plus seeing everyone healed.

     

    If nothing else, I imagine it's not common to see a wound as severe as throat laceration Healed successfully.

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  2.   On 11/26/2021 at 5:19 AM, DojoToad said:

     

    • Moiraine left with scar on initial healing
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    My only thought is to differentiate between a regular would and a Trollec/Fade wound.
    The books make a distinction with Tam's wound having come from a trollecs blade.  
     

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  3.   Quote

    Q: I sense a lot of foreshadowing in the show so far. Are there things that we are missing and should we be paying closer attention? Also, very well done surprising book readers with Dana! I know you won’t answer this one but was can you officially confirm that Nynaeve kept the trolloc blade to threaten Lan? It is a very Nynaeve move and I fully support it.
    A: Yeah, I’m actually surprised how many little easter eggs a lot of the hardcore fans have still missed. Although, I don’t have visibility into a lot of the boards, so I’m sure people somewhere have found them. She obviously used that Trolloc blade on Lan. You can see it matches.

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    Now I need to start a list, and re-watch again. 

  4.   On 11/23/2021 at 7:20 PM, Sir_Charrid said:

    Ok this idea that the characters have been “aged up” is nonsensical. In the books the 3 boys are nearly 20 and Egwene is 17, I imagine they should all know quite a lot more about the birds and the bees then they are portrayed in the books, talk to most people who grow up around farms and in small villages and they where very aware of sex by the time they where teenagers. 
     

    I always felt Robert Jordan wrote them far to naieve for there age, especially given I was 16 when I read the books and had a sexual relationship with my girlfriend at the time (age of consent in uk is 16). 

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    I have mentioned this silly aged up thing multiple times. 
    Though the naivety of them at 17-20   does match more to my generation, (and probably R.J's) and my  life at that age in a remote backwater town.  Consider if there are 20-30 people in your age group that you have always known, and then almost 1/2 are related, not much opportunity for romance until you leave town.  

     

  5.   On 11/20/2021 at 9:52 PM, Ralph said:

    The vast majority of people who read the whole series will have read it once only. That aren't invested in it, or emotionally connected to it. They never knew a lot of the early foreshadowing or fan theories. That just read the books. 

     

    Those people will be interested in watching the show, and won't care how much it has been changed

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    I don't know about that,  before we were so inundated with online media and easy access to books, or the increase in the number of fantasy book options, since it could be years in-between releases  it was common for most people I knew to re-read a series before the next book came out.  
    For readers who started later once the series was complete or near the end, then it would be more likely to be a read once,  though I still have series like WoT that I re-read every year or 2. 

  6.   On 11/23/2021 at 3:48 PM, SinisterDeath said:

    Some TV's have options for increasing font size/color/etc, but unfortunately with dialogue heavy scenes, the text speed will increase, and there's not much you can do other than pause, or find episode transcripts like the one you found above.

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    Yep, i will continue to watch and then visit forums or sites like that for clarity.  Yes they have ways to increase fonts or the colors, but they usually do not make it clearer, or it covers up too much of the screen. 
    On bigger tv's if you are focusing on reading you do not see what is going on.  I did not have as much difficulty with WoT as I have with many movies/shows as the background music was not overpowering.  I have difficulty hearing certain higher pitches so sometimes hear only half of a conversation often when it is between a male and female character. 

     

  7.   On 11/23/2021 at 3:08 PM, DaddyFinn said:

    The show has English closed captions. Have you tried that? Did you miss Moiraine whispering "Siuan" in the forest when she was almost unconscious?

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    Closed captions are worse, they are too hard to read, and I would need to pause to read them. I did not grow up in a scrolling text world, so my brain struggles with it (same with chat windows).  Part of it is just how I take in or remember information, I remember much better what I read than what I hear. Usually dialogue in movies is difficult because of too loud background music,  but I think they did a great job there.  I also am thrilled it is lighter and not as dark with hard to see details which is so common in many shows. Both of those are reasons I have just stopped watching shows even if they are good, I can only play with the brightness setting so much. 

    I caught the Siuan thing only after reading about it and re-watching for the third time.   

    Edited to say I have found this transcript: https://tvshowtranscripts.ourboard.org/viewtopic.php?f=1119&t=48056&sid=29227d9a0aa16aea1d5529fe439325c1 
     

  8.   On 11/23/2021 at 3:15 PM, Cre8engr said:

    Brandon Sanderson (I can't remember where) said that Layla was a shortcut.  It's also something that he is not happy with.  Sanderson recognizes a need for a shortcut, because of the difficulty of transposing character thoughts to television and that television is condensed, but Sanderson's recommendation was to use Master Luhan instead.  Amazon's argument for Perrin killing Layla instead of Master Luhan was that Master Luhan will require precious screentime to develop and establish his relationship with Perrin to the general viewer not experienced with the books.  Killing the wife makes it more impactful and easier for the those who haven't read the books to later understand Perrin's struggle between the axe and the hammer.

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    It also will explain his later issues and reluctance with Faile and other women. It was a shortcut no doubt, and though fridging in general is a lousy plot device, the difference here from what I see of it being a motivator for his depth, fear of losing control and struggles is a little different than the standard fridge the girl then I have a reason for revenge. 

  9.   On 11/21/2021 at 6:50 PM, JaimAybara said:
      Reveal hidden contents

     

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  10.   On 11/23/2021 at 2:18 PM, Beidomon said:


    This “turning” has robbed Egwene of any of her naivety that made her charming in the early books. Mo took her out of the TR along with the boys for a very simple reason - her ability to channel. And that was more than enough. And her reaction in the books was perfect: “I’m going to be Aes Sedai!” and “Rand - you can be my warder!” For whatever reason - Rafe and the writers room robbed her of that. And all for “modern sensibilities.” Tough to understand. 

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    I have since episode 3 re-read the beginning of EoTW.  While I am not a fan of the change to Rand and Egwene's  relationship, the point of ageing up or whatever or for thinking there could not be the same connection, love and loss from a non-sexual childhood love is demeaning IMO. The went from one trope of bring along the girl because she is important later,  to another type of trope the girl is important because she is involved sexually with one of the male characters. 
    I do like the change from kind of a bossy silly "little girl" to a determined female, though I think they could have done better to have combined her naivety and  increase her importance early on.
     
    Re-reading the part in the stable where she insists on joining them to be in on the adventure, and refused to even listen to them on the reasons was a good reminder of how I had forgotten some of the earlier character portrayals in the first book. 

  11.   On 11/23/2021 at 1:25 PM, Sir_Charrid said:

    I still hope that in the future someone takes up the challenge to animate WOT, I am hoping the forthcoming critical role animated show demonstrates there is an audience for adult orientated fantasy anime and WOT would be a great option for that in the future. no worrying about actors ageing to much during the course of making, you could have a 20 season run and tell all of the story. 

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    That maybe a future possibility. I think the older audience that struggles with animated (myself included) is passing.  To me so much of WoT is in the non-verbal thoughts and "looks",  that I would find animated less able to successfully portray the depth of characters in WoT, but the newer generations like my kids are more able to pick up those clues and feelings in animation than I am.  I have yet to watch any animation where the characters do not feel "flat" and lifeless. 

  12.   On 11/23/2021 at 11:45 AM, Tim said:

    Having been unable to make time to post for a week, and hence since I saw the first three episodes, I'm not sure whether it's depressing or amusing to return here only to find people post about stuff like whether Marin had more lines than Bran in episode 1 or whether Dana would be strong enough to run with a sword in episode 3. Seriously, is this what people get worked up over?

     

    The thing I was most interested about from Dana's appearance in episode 3 is that her speech to Rand very clearly foreshadows Rand's nadir on Dragonmount, the uselessness of the cycle of being reborn into a world of pain and misery and mistakes - much more directly and precisely and obviously than Ingtar in the books. Ingtar is, I'm pretty sure, the only darkfriend in the books apart from Ishamael and one other (who I won't name in case some readers haven't gotten through all the books, but let's just say that her soul is white) who became a darkfriend for a reason other than some version of either power or immortality or freedom to be bad or all three. And yet here we have, in episode 3, a pretty low-ranking darkfriend who essentially espouses Ishamael's metaphysics and treats him as a kind of Jesus figure. 

     

    Contrast that with Tam's speech to Rand in the first episode about the purpose of reincarnation being to do better than last time. I was really surprised that the ultimate moral arc of Rand's journey in the books had been so obviously foregrounded within 3 episodes. I was really hoping there'd be an interesting discussion on here about whether this was good or bad, nuanced or hamfisted, thoughtful or thoughtless. 

     

    do think that if the show ever gets to veins of gold we'll see Rand echoing Dana's thoughts (albeit not depicted literally as such) and we'll get (literal) flashbacks to Tam's speech at Bel Tine.

     

    Also, Dana thinks Ishamael was an incarnation of the dragon!?! Even as an incorrect belief amongst darkfriends this would be messing with the story way more than Egwene potentially being the DR, but I suspect it's actually supposed to be the case?

     

    Doesn't really make sense if Ba'alzamon is Ishamael unless two (or, rather, at least three) instances of the same soul can exist simultaneously? Conversely, if they follow through with it (and deal with the metaphysical issues arising from two instances of the dragon coexisting) I can see the attraction of making Rand / Ishamael even more of mirror-images / counterparts than they are in the books. But I can't say I love the idea until I see how they execute it (and if they can pull it off) - the degree of difficulty seems high.

    And yet none of this is commented on here? Tell me that's not because it's not an example of oh noes Rafe once said he is a feminist I'm feeling so emasculated right now and that's the only sort of thing that seems to excite 50% of the contributors?

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    I returned to WoT forums after 7 years for this kind of speculation, and analysis. 
    I thought Dana's infodump and alternative take was interesting, it modernized the  rationale for being on the side of The Dark One, blurring the lines to the more current trend of having more nuance in what is good or evil, as compared to the time of the books where it was a simpler contrast good vs Evil. 
    I will wait to see if that ends up being  the more common belief of Darkfriends or if she is one of the few like Ingtar. 
     

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    I was really surprised that the ultimate moral arc of Rand's journey in the books had been so obviously foregrounded within 3 episodes.

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    This was surprising, I feel they really did nail down the arcs of both Rand and Perrin, While I see the character flaws and strengths of Nynaeve, Egwene and Matt have been set up well, I am not sure we have that same foundation, I may see it on re-watch.  

     

      On 11/23/2021 at 12:33 PM, Tim said:

    Well if that is the case I will be much happier, given it was only the seeming impossibility of the latter option that bothered me. Does it mean, though, that Ishamael is meant to be much older than the other forsaken? 

    Obviously I’ll have to watch again with frequent use of the pause button

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    I really want transcripts of the shows, I miss so much with on screen media,   It is probably why I rarely watch movies or TV.  

  13.   On 11/22/2021 at 9:09 PM, SinisterDeath said:

    I can confirm he didn't close his eyes. It's hard to tell because his eyes were obscured by the shadow cast by his own noggin, and Egwene hovering, but if you look at the eye furthest from the camera, you can see his eyelashes backlit, indicating his eyes were open.

    He commented that they were deep before touching the ground. (Which could just be to confirm that the ground was compact, and not squishy. 
    If there were a LOT of people there could have been heat but I doubt it. (same goes with vibration)

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    How damp or dry the dirt is in the track tells how long ago also,  the soil underneath would have less moisture than an older the track,  you can also tell if the track was from weight compacts and cuts into dirt  or soft soil squishes.

  14.   On 11/20/2021 at 3:19 PM, Joe B said:

    Then it doesn't make sense for Rafe to say they "aged them up" for the show. During the second and third watchings, I still felt like I was watching a CW show during the scenes with Egwene and Rand.

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    No it doesn't because so much of the hero's journey of al 5EF's  is some of that growth from naive and young to who they become.  Plot wise all of the changes work to bring us along sooner to the future struggles and plot arcs, what they do not do is bring us along on the character growth. They are trying to play them aged up and still naive, but have only really aged up Egwene in years.  (and I think a few years difference in Nynaeve) 


     

  15.   On 11/22/2021 at 1:42 PM, MasterAblar said:


    See I would agree with that… except the savoir ends up being a man anyway. That same crowd would still complain I feel like. They could have just had a passage about the heroes of the horn to be honest to show that the dragon isn’t always the hero called upon.

     

    Sanderson seems to say it’s just because Rafe wanted included in the mystery of the Dragon Reborn. Seems like a bit of a weak reason for the change in my opinion. 
     

    If he wanted mystery Rand, Mat, Perrin and even Logan seem sufficient to me. Which makes me wonder why they would include the age component in the details given of the prophecy since that detail knocks Logan out of contention.

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    I think it has as much to do with making it an ensemble cast, the same reason for focusing on Egwene's braid ceremony thing. In the beginning of the books she is more of an "extra", and companion, we know now what her role is but looking back I really did not build up the same "feelings" for her until later in the series.  So increasing her "role" and possibilities right away creates more of that investment in her. 

  16.   On 11/20/2021 at 8:43 PM, Akragard said:

    And the Wolves. Why are the wolves so small? Did the production team not do any research? Wolves are roughly the size of black bears.

     

    They are massive. Those little coyotes or house dogs from episode 3 aren't gonna be taking down a Trolloc or Fade.

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    There are many different species of wolves, and they are all not the same size. 
    North America has at least 4 or 5 (depending on who is counting) subspecies  of wolf.  I am glad they are using real animals and not just CGI, I can accept than in The Third Age the wolves are of one of the smaller subspecies.
    The show is using Czechoslovakia Wolf-Dogs, A breed from German Shepard's and Carpathian wolves, at around 26 inches at the shoulders they are not that much smaller than a Grey Wolf where males are  27- 32 inches at the shoulders. 


     

  17.   On 11/22/2021 at 2:16 AM, Chadouken said:

    I haven't been to this site in years- I don't think my old account is even active anymore. After watching the first three episodes of the show I figured I'd come say hi and drop a few thoughts in here.

     

    I really like the series. After reading through the comments in this thread I can totally understand why some people don't, but I'm not overly critical in general, and having read the source material I'm pretty intimate with the world so it's been fun to follow along and see the transformation onto the screen. That said, it did take me a couple episodes to get used to the casting. Some of the characters are very different than how they were described in the books (I can't believe Thom doesn't have moustaches). But after letting it sink in, I've come to enjoy the performances.

     

    The setting is amazing and makes the world feel like it's in Jordan's vision so far. I was impressed with the channeling during the Trolloc battle; really cool depiction and close to how I imagined it. Whitecloaks were awesome and seem to be a pretty formidable foe. I feel like there's a lot the series got right so far, and also some things I wish were not left out. 

     

    I'm invested in it and from what I've seen I have high hopes of it getting better and better as the story opens up.

     

    I just hope they don't dedicate an entire episode to the color of Elayne's dress.

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    Welcome back, I too had to create a new account.  
    after 20 + years of speculation and dissection of every prophecy and legend  I moved on to other things, so it is great to be back and talking WoT  again.   

    I binged the first 3, where I let myself cringe and yell at the TV.  
    Then I went back and watched it for what it is, a beautiful and engaging retelling of  books and characters who lived in my head for 25 years.  

    Knowing what is to come I can appreciate the changes and see how and why they were done so that we can get to where the characters need to be, maybe there were better ways, but it works. I like the actors, and I hope to see them mesh even more and that some of the dialogue improves as they work out some of the kinks.  

     

  18.   On 11/22/2021 at 1:28 AM, Jaysen Gore said:

    Was going to post this is S1E1, but probably not a good idea. 

     

    I'll re-watch when I can, but probably my biggest concern is them having to lop off entire branches of the plot tree - the Horn - gone; dreaming - gone; the Seachan - gone; the Breaking of the Tower - gone; half the Forsaken - gone. Morgase - gone. Entire multi-book plotlines and POV's excised completely.

     

    OR...if they don't make some serious, serious cuts, this is going to feel like a mindless sprint through plot high points with minimal character development until we get to the slog, and then their edits to the slog will make it feel like a mind-blowingly good series.

     

    I'm not concerned about the TV series' ability to get from Dumai's Wells the end of the series with incredible TV in about 4 seasons. It's the ability to get from the Two Rivers to Dumai's Wells in 4 seasons without losing much of the tapestry of the world and depth of character that makes the Wheel of Time great that makes me nervous.

     

    Like LOTR, I'll be here, because we'll never get another, and I get that it will likely never be what we all would have wanted, but I just hope they find some time to let this breathe...

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    LOTR like DUNE took multiple attempts before getting them right, personally I think they are still trying with DUNE. 

  19.   On 11/20/2021 at 7:00 AM, Harad the White said:

    Totally disagree. The episode moved from beginning to end. The multiple points of view worked brilliantly when the 6 split into 2s. As in every movie/book discussion there will always be purists who object to the slightest deviation from the book.

    Just one response: Padan Fain started innocuously in the book and built his evil. The dagger is his entree.

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    Yep, I am not sure why  they gave that away so soon, other than looks like the actor is going to do a great job at being an evil dude. 

  20.   On 11/20/2021 at 6:15 AM, DaddyFinn said:

    Found on discord. Maybe not a darkfriend but something is up.

     

    https://www.theringer.com/2021/11/19/22792149/the-wheel-of-time-premiere-with-zach-baron-and-rafe-judkins

     

    After 1h 45min:

     

    Host: We love a book-reader theory. It has to do with Perrin's wife. I'm going to say a phrase to you, and you tell me if it means anything to you: Darkfriend

     

    Rafe: No, I think that's the wrong.... I don't know this fan theory so I don't wanna engage on it. Laila the character comes from a sentence in the books where Perrin said, "I think if I lived in the Two Rivers a few more years, I probably would've married Laila Dearn". So now that the characters have aged up a few years, that's a nod to who she is. Can you tell me what the theory is?

     

    Host: She seems troubled. The idea is that she's a darkfriend seduced by the promise of immortality (or something). He turns, and she has her axe up, and they think that she was actually going to kill him, because she'd been seduced by the dark side. Because there's a character in the books, that shows up looking like someone from Perrin's family, and maybe this character is being set up to be that person.

     

    Rafe: I shouldn't speak to this probably, but they are noticing things that are worth noticing there. That's all I can say.

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    If they are planting foreshadowing , for new theories and speculation, then even with changes (good or bad), then  they will have truly captured a major part of WoT.

  21.   On 11/20/2021 at 12:47 AM, Skipp said:

    Egwene is certainly aged up but everyone is matured up, if that makes sense.  In the books they are 20 year olds that act like mid to late teenagers.  In the show they are effectively adults, if only just.

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    I do not see that they aged them up in maturity either, or what they did do does not work as well as they think, So Perrin is a full blacksmith timeline would still make him only a journeyman.   Mat gambles and steals stuff instead of playing pranks and stealing pies. None of it really works to age them up in maturity. 

  22.   On 11/20/2021 at 4:54 AM, SingleMort said:

    One thing I noticed in the show is that when they mention Egwene might become a wisdom in the show she said and Rand couldn't be together because wisdoms were not allowed to have families or get married. Maybe I'm misremembering this from the books but I don't remember any rule about wisdoms not being able to have husbands/partners in fact I seem to recall it was generally accepted that Egwene would train to be a wisdom and become betrothed to Rand before they leave Emond's Field. The position of Wisdom is not part of any religion or order so I cannot see the value to vows of chastity or celibacy. Am I getting this wrong and if not does anyone know why they might have made this change because I'm kinda puzzled by it   

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    I was puzzled too, Daise Congar is married and becomes the Wisdom after Nynaeve. It seemed like a cheap what can we add to make this odd relationship with Rand have some kind of strife,  instead of the childhood crush, adult expectations from the books that they needed to get through and grow out of as they changed and moved on.  It just felt like a meaningless addition that really didn't add anything. 

  23.   On 11/19/2021 at 9:12 PM, Joe B said:

     

    Rafe said they aged up the characters to avoid coming across like a YA show. However, the scenes with Egwene and Rand come across as YA. I watch a lot of CW shows, and that is what these scenes remind me of, both dialogue and music.

     

     

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    Ageing them up does not line up except for Egwene (b 981 so 17 in the book),
    Nynaeve (b. 973 - 25 in the book ) Rand, Mat and Perrin were born in 978 TEotW takes place in 998 which makes them 20 in the books so the same as the show.
    The only thing I see is that we have Perrin being a blacksmith not an apprentice which even at 20 makes no sense. 



     

  24.   On 11/19/2021 at 3:48 PM, SinisterDeath said:

     

    It means exactly what It said.
    Not all book fans are part of online communities/fandom.

    If you were to total up every active member on DM, Twitter of Time, Facebook Wheel of Time/DM you'd be lucky to get 200k.

    -----

     

    It'll take time for the most of the book fans to even know about the show. I know 3 IRL that had no idea the show was even coming out this month. They don't participate in online fandom.

      

    Facebook DM = 20k likes
    The Wheel of Time page has 84k likes.
    Good Reads has 439K ratings for the Eye of the world.
    Good Reads has 120k ratings for A Memory of Light.

    That means 1 in 3.65 read EoTW and finished AMOL.
     

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    While I agree with you that there is a large number of book fans that are not part of fandom today ( it was much larger 20 years ago! )  and because the books started in 1990 there are many fans that are older and not likely to be rating on good reads or other online platforms, and many others who may not have Amazon Prime. 
    I agree that they need to build and attract new fans, and that the existing fan base is only the starting point.
    A better number would be how many purchased AMoL  as that would show a better number of readers of the entire series.  

    AMoL  debuted at #1 and was on the NYT list for 10 weeks.  

     

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