On 11/20/2021 at 9:19 AM, Joe B said:

Then it doesn't make sense for Rafe to say they "aged them up" for the show. During the second and third watchings, I still felt like I was watching a CW show during the scenes with Egwene and Rand.

No it doesn't because so much of the hero's journey of al 5EF's  is some of that growth from naive and young to who they become.  Plot wise all of the changes work to bring us along sooner to the future struggles and plot arcs, what they do not do is bring us along on the character growth. They are trying to play them aged up and still naive, but have only really aged up Egwene in years.  (and I think a few years difference in Nynaeve) 


 

13 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

See I would agree with that… except the savoir ends up being a man anyway. That same crowd would still complain I feel like. They could have just had a passage about the heroes of the horn to be honest to show that the dragon isn’t always the hero called upon.

 

Sanderson seems to say it’s just because Rafe wanted included in the mystery of the Dragon Reborn. Seems like a bit of a weak reason for the change in my opinion. 
 

If he wanted mystery Rand, Mat, Perrin and even Logan seem sufficient to me. Which makes me wonder why they would include the age component in the details given of the prophecy since that detail knocks Logan out of contention.

I think it has as much to do with making it an ensemble cast, the same reason for focusing on Egwene's braid ceremony thing. In the beginning of the books she is more of an "extra", and companion, we know now what her role is but looking back I really did not build up the same "feelings" for her until later in the series.  So increasing her "role" and possibilities right away creates more of that investment in her. 

On 11/20/2021 at 2:43 PM, Akragard said:

And the Wolves. Why are the wolves so small? Did the production team not do any research? Wolves are roughly the size of black bears.

 

They are massive. Those little coyotes or house dogs from episode 3 aren't gonna be taking down a Trolloc or Fade.

There are many different species of wolves, and they are all not the same size. 
North America has at least 4 or 5 (depending on who is counting) subspecies  of wolf.  I am glad they are using real animals and not just CGI, I can accept than in The Third Age the wolves are of one of the smaller subspecies.
The show is using Czechoslovakia Wolf-Dogs, A breed from German Shepard's and Carpathian wolves, at around 26 inches at the shoulders they are not that much smaller than a Grey Wolf where males are  27- 32 inches at the shoulders. 

20 hours ago, Chadouken said:

I haven't been to this site in years- I don't think my old account is even active anymore. After watching the first three episodes of the show I figured I'd come say hi and drop a few thoughts in here.

 

I really like the series. After reading through the comments in this thread I can totally understand why some people don't, but I'm not overly critical in general, and having read the source material I'm pretty intimate with the world so it's been fun to follow along and see the transformation onto the screen. That said, it did take me a couple episodes to get used to the casting. Some of the characters are very different than how they were described in the books (I can't believe Thom doesn't have moustaches). But after letting it sink in, I've come to enjoy the performances.

 

The setting is amazing and makes the world feel like it's in Jordan's vision so far. I was impressed with the channeling during the Trolloc battle; really cool depiction and close to how I imagined it. Whitecloaks were awesome and seem to be a pretty formidable foe. I feel like there's a lot the series got right so far, and also some things I wish were not left out. 

 

I'm invested in it and from what I've seen I have high hopes of it getting better and better as the story opens up.

 

I just hope they don't dedicate an entire episode to the color of Elayne's dress.

Welcome back, I too had to create a new account.  
after 20 + years of speculation and dissection of every prophecy and legend  I moved on to other things, so it is great to be back and talking WoT  again.   

I binged the first 3, where I let myself cringe and yell at the TV.  
Then I went back and watched it for what it is, a beautiful and engaging retelling of  books and characters who lived in my head for 25 years.  

Knowing what is to come I can appreciate the changes and see how and why they were done so that we can get to where the characters need to be, maybe there were better ways, but it works. I like the actors, and I hope to see them mesh even more and that some of the dialogue improves as they work out some of the kinks.  

 

21 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Was going to post this is S1E1, but probably not a good idea. 

 

I'll re-watch when I can, but probably my biggest concern is them having to lop off entire branches of the plot tree - the Horn - gone; dreaming - gone; the Seachan - gone; the Breaking of the Tower - gone; half the Forsaken - gone. Morgase - gone. Entire multi-book plotlines and POV's excised completely.

 

OR...if they don't make some serious, serious cuts, this is going to feel like a mindless sprint through plot high points with minimal character development until we get to the slog, and then their edits to the slog will make it feel like a mind-blowingly good series.

 

I'm not concerned about the TV series' ability to get from Dumai's Wells the end of the series with incredible TV in about 4 seasons. It's the ability to get from the Two Rivers to Dumai's Wells in 4 seasons without losing much of the tapestry of the world and depth of character that makes the Wheel of Time great that makes me nervous.

 

Like LOTR, I'll be here, because we'll never get another, and I get that it will likely never be what we all would have wanted, but I just hope they find some time to let this breathe...

LOTR like DUNE took multiple attempts before getting them right, personally I think they are still trying with DUNE. 

On 11/20/2021 at 1:00 AM, Harad the White said:

Totally disagree. The episode moved from beginning to end. The multiple points of view worked brilliantly when the 6 split into 2s. As in every movie/book discussion there will always be purists who object to the slightest deviation from the book.

Just one response: Padan Fain started innocuously in the book and built his evil. The dagger is his entree.

Yep, I am not sure why  they gave that away so soon, other than looks like the actor is going to do a great job at being an evil dude. 

1 minute ago, DaddyFinn said:

Spoiler for episode 2&3 and books of course

 

 

Yep,  even the Padan Fain leaving as Trollecs appear was great, though all of those are more easter eggs to fans.  I am interested to see if there is foreshadowing for any of the new changes, that will make the next few seasons interesting. 

14 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Found on discord. Maybe not a darkfriend but something is up.

 

https://www.theringer.com/2021/11/19/22792149/the-wheel-of-time-premiere-with-zach-baron-and-rafe-judkins

 

After 1h 45min:

 

Host: We love a book-reader theory. It has to do with Perrin's wife. I'm going to say a phrase to you, and you tell me if it means anything to you: Darkfriend

 

Rafe: No, I think that's the wrong.... I don't know this fan theory so I don't wanna engage on it. Laila the character comes from a sentence in the books where Perrin said, "I think if I lived in the Two Rivers a few more years, I probably would've married Laila Dearn". So now that the characters have aged up a few years, that's a nod to who she is. Can you tell me what the theory is?

 

Host: She seems troubled. The idea is that she's a darkfriend seduced by the promise of immortality (or something). He turns, and she has her axe up, and they think that she was actually going to kill him, because she'd been seduced by the dark side. Because there's a character in the books, that shows up looking like someone from Perrin's family, and maybe this character is being set up to be that person.

 

Rafe: I shouldn't speak to this probably, but they are noticing things that are worth noticing there. That's all I can say.

If they are planting foreshadowing , for new theories and speculation, then even with changes (good or bad), then  they will have truly captured a major part of WoT.

5 hours ago, Skipp said:

Egwene is certainly aged up but everyone is matured up, if that makes sense.  In the books they are 20 year olds that act like mid to late teenagers.  In the show they are effectively adults, if only just.

I do not see that they aged them up in maturity either, or what they did do does not work as well as they think, So Perrin is a full blacksmith timeline would still make him only a journeyman.   Mat gambles and steals stuff instead of playing pranks and stealing pies. None of it really works to age them up in maturity. 

1 hour ago, SingleMort said:

One thing I noticed in the show is that when they mention Egwene might become a wisdom in the show she said and Rand couldn't be together because wisdoms were not allowed to have families or get married. Maybe I'm misremembering this from the books but I don't remember any rule about wisdoms not being able to have husbands/partners in fact I seem to recall it was generally accepted that Egwene would train to be a wisdom and become betrothed to Rand before they leave Emond's Field. The position of Wisdom is not part of any religion or order so I cannot see the value to vows of chastity or celibacy. Am I getting this wrong and if not does anyone know why they might have made this change because I'm kinda puzzled by it   

I was puzzled too, Daise Congar is married and becomes the Wisdom after Nynaeve. It seemed like a cheap what can we add to make this odd relationship with Rand have some kind of strife,  instead of the childhood crush, adult expectations from the books that they needed to get through and grow out of as they changed and moved on.  It just felt like a meaningless addition that really didn't add anything. 

8 hours ago, Joe B said:

 

Rafe said they aged up the characters to avoid coming across like a YA show. However, the scenes with Egwene and Rand come across as YA. I watch a lot of CW shows, and that is what these scenes remind me of, both dialogue and music.

 

 

Ageing them up does not line up except for Egwene (b 981 so 17 in the book),
Nynaeve (b. 973 - 25 in the book ) Rand, Mat and Perrin were born in 978 TEotW takes place in 998 which makes them 20 in the books so the same as the show.
The only thing I see is that we have Perrin being a blacksmith not an apprentice which even at 20 makes no sense. 

11 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

It means exactly what It said.
Not all book fans are part of online communities/fandom.

If you were to total up every active member on DM, Twitter of Time, Facebook Wheel of Time/DM you'd be lucky to get 200k.

-----

 

It'll take time for the most of the book fans to even know about the show. I know 3 IRL that had no idea the show was even coming out this month. They don't participate in online fandom.

  

Facebook DM = 20k likes
The Wheel of Time page has 84k likes.
Good Reads has 439K ratings for the Eye of the world.
Good Reads has 120k ratings for A Memory of Light.

That means 1 in 3.65 read EoTW and finished AMOL.
 

While I agree with you that there is a large number of book fans that are not part of fandom today ( it was much larger 20 years ago! )  and because the books started in 1990 there are many fans that are older and not likely to be rating on good reads or other online platforms, and many others who may not have Amazon Prime. 
I agree that they need to build and attract new fans, and that the existing fan base is only the starting point.
A better number would be how many purchased AMoL  as that would show a better number of readers of the entire series.  

AMoL  debuted at #1 and was on the NYT list for 10 weeks.  

 

7 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Agreed. There's something going on there. My working theory:

• Perrin/Laila was a 'shotgun wedding' - forced by Laila getting pregnant.
• Perrin will blame a 'loss of control' for getting Laila pregnant.
• Laila was in love with someone else and turned to the Dark because she was promised an exit from the relationship.

I haven't seen E3 yet - so please no replies that contradict my theory based on stuff that happens in that episode.

 

There is but I tend to think it is simpler,  reading the books there is plenty to build the quiet brooding Perrin, who is afraid of his strength and cautious.  It is an alternative to his later conflicts, a motivator for his blacksmithing.  The books focus more on his living up to Haral Luhan and his apprenticeship, today it may be harder for newer audiences to understand that connection and having been apprenticed away from family since 12. This scene quickly sets up his later  internal battles. (Without 500 pages of nothing happening ?)

17 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

I guess they will have to because Moiraine never gave them the coins

True, I guess they need more mystery in where are they? Though I initially thought that Mat losing his coin purse was about losing the coin Moiraine gave him. 
That is one downside to having read the books so many times since 1990, that I miss some of what is not there.

11 hours ago, Katherine said:

 

I also get what they were trying to demonstrate, I just don't feel it was done well. I think that is a summary of all of my criticisms..... I am not disagreeing with the BIG PICTURE that Rafe is trying to accomplish. But the execution, so far, is poor. 

I will say that I did not see the scene as anything sexual, and  if  they continue to show the connection and platonic relationship between them, without any sexual or romantic ridiculousness I will be happy. One of the great things in the books was showing several strong friendships whether it's Rand and Egwene (one reason I hate where the show went with it) Mat Perrin and Rand,  or Egwene and Nynaeve, Moiraine and Lan, Several others later in the books with other's too. 

2 minutes ago, Wordjerk said:

I'll admit the choice to show Nynaeve as a skilled killer who has little problem fighting Trollocs struck me as odd (I'm still not totally on board with that haha). That being said, they've changed her backstory to one we as the viewer don't understand yet. So there could easily be a forthcoming explanation as to how she got her tracking (and perhaps fighting skills). 

I have a feeling they will rely more on the tracking connection to Egwene  and the one power than her actual woodsmen tracking skills,   The book focuses on both, first showing her trying to read the tracks as she follows them, and later when she catches up to them,  Moraine explaining her connection to Egwene and sensing others with the One Power.

3 hours ago, RextheDog said:

i assumed i would hate a physical relationship between Rand and Eggy, but it worked, 

This to me was a problem, I could see if it was a little less physical, but the off scene part for me really  does not fit the characters, or timing being as Egwene just had her womans ceremony, and it was not played as if this was the first time. 

4 hours ago, Beidomon said:

I agree but the problem is that if the showrunners devoted that much screen time to Rand it would ruin the mystery. 

Not sure about the mystery, but if they focused so much on Rand it would delay the growth (and fan connections) of the other characters. It feels like they will weave the character arcs on more of a parallel timeline, unlike the books where there could be long periods of time with some characters missing in action or just traveling with no real progress in their stories..