I'd love that, if it were revealed to be the case. ... I have a question. Does everyone think the Moiraine-Rand discussion is frank and honest? At first, I was glad of this scene, but Rand is so incredibly understanding and kind at a point in time when he's started turning into emperor-with-a-heart-of-stone-with-an-annoying-voice-in-his-head that now something seems a little off.

I agree. However, I must say that I like the book armour when it applies to late-story Rand. After the "do you believe that I could kill you? Right here, right now, without using a sword or the Power? Do you believe that if I simply willed it, the Pattern would bend around me and stop your heart? By... coincidence?" comment I kept waiting for yet another bunch of renegade Aes Sedai to catch Rand unawares and try to shield or still him, only to suffer random heart attacks, strokes and the like. 🙂 Not because Rand willed it, but because by that point in the story the Pattern has too much invested in him.

My estimation of the first series was that it was less interesting than it could have been. My hope was that it would get better. Regarding the second, I thought it was indeed better but not hugely well put together. I was interested in seeing more. Regarding this year's offering, I thought the average quality was much higher, even if lacking in execution. I want to see more. (It is far from being excellent in my opinion, despite the incredible IMDB scores, but far better than a certain other major Amazon fantasy series.)

If you will all permit me to indulge myself a little, I am going to try to create an analogy. (Dangerous, I know.) You got up this morning, did your usual morning things, brushed your teeth, turned on your PC to see this discussion, etc. You did all this by yourself. In the Wheel of Time, you would have a character to wake you up, another to serve you breakfast, another to brush your teeth, another to turn your PC on, and a gaggle of people would argue over what you should start typing. All those characters are not necessary.

I am afraid that this is where I have to disagree with you fundamentally. First, regarding the politics of the White Tower, if I were interested in that, I would have entered politics, not picked up a fantasy book. I must however confess that in my estimation, the politicking sections of the books are the most fantastic. (By which I mean fantasy, not great.) Second, there are any number of Aes Sedai already introduced who have been involved in Tower politics who could fulfill that role. It would have been apt for Siuan to do so, but she gets sidelined in the books, and is IMHO not a necessary character. Your comment also does not really answer the question: Is there anything Siuan did that someone else could not do?

That knowledge is not indication?

Is there anything Siuan does that could not be done by someone else? (I honestly don't remember.)

I sort of missed that when watching, just thought it was some random Aiel walking around. However, some Youtube commentators have suggested the same thing as you, and I think it makes more sense.

I agree. https://images.app.goo.gl/HDVw4iyxohVQnZrn9

It does. 🙂

As someone who believes the books would have benefited tremendously from a dispassionate and critical editor I have to say that in my opinion a lot of the changes, including the deaths of Loial (sorry as I was to see him go) and Siuan (whose post-stilling story belongs in a self-help book and whose death in the books was limp), are neither here nor there. As far I'm concerned, the books and the show suffer from the same problem: flashes of brilliance. The general feeling on this forum might be that Jordan was Tolstoy re-incarnated, but as far as I can remember War and Peace did not veer off into discussion of politics in Brazil, Russian troop movements on the Chinese border or the quirks of early nineteenth century Sami life, but tidily and impressively managed to cover quite a number of relevant issues within a titanic conflict using a mere 600 characters rather than 3,000. More is not always better, and Jordan's writing skills were not up to the task. Unlike Jordan, the producers, directors and writers of the TV series do not have an indulgent boss/editor, who will allow them to stretch things out beyond their capability to handle and I think that is mostly a good thing. Mostly. The series would benefit from more time (amongst other things). What therefore bugs me is not whether things are accurate representations of book canon - whatever that might be - but the simple things. As Mirefox pointed out towards the start of this discussion: Not to mention that Lan permits Lanfear to stitch herself together with black goo, a favour Lanfear returns later by watching Moiraine slowly pull a sword out of her abdomen without interference. It's things like these - things that could be avoided - which annoy me tremendously, not whether the Snakes and Foxes have been correctly represented or whether such-and-such a thing should have occurred at some point or whether there was enough exposition of some ability or lore point. ... On reflection, an area where I like what the series is doing is where it's trying not to focus on Rand. I must admit, I did not like it at the start, but I do now. The problem with the Dragon Reborn's character in the books is that he is so powerful, so critical that it would be all too easy to build everything around him. Jordan gets around the problem by adding bookfuls of padding which progress the story very little. The TV series gets around the problem by understating things when Rand does something really important, or by (in this instance) undercutting his Big Scene with another that is much more emotional. It's only later, when the storm he raises reaches hemispheric proportions do you understand the gravity, but even then, it's partially in the background. You can (dis)miss it as easily as Elaida does, but I would venture to suggest neither she nor the viewer should do so. (Apologies for the length and all the edits.)

In my script for Season 4, currently being hotly negotiated with Amazon🤪, Rand uses you-know-what at Tear to call the Black Tower to him.

There are so many new story lines to be introduced that I fear you may be right. Personally, I'd prefer Tear right at the start, and Dumai's Wells at the end.

Not my favourite episode of the series (that remains Ep 6) but it was as well as could be managed within the time available. Highlights for me, in no particular order: I liked Siuan's death, it felt more appropriate than the one in the books. Matt and his needs. 🙂 The aftereffects of balefire. (However, I must ask: can balefire be used to erase the effects of previous uses of balefire?) Above all, Lanfear going really weird after being rebuffed in Rand's dream. I wasn't all that enthused by the ending, but I remember feeling that the book episode was also not my favourite; indeed, I find all of Rand's big power moments in the books a bit of a let-down apart from his first inadvertent channelling and of course - major spoilers so avoid unless you've read the books - So the cutting back and forth was fine. I regret to say that after Rhuarc made his proclamation, my mind flipped to an alternative scene where a certain Aiel girl to come back from the dead and squeaked: For he is the Kwisatz'aracarn! (Sorry. I had a hard time not laughing then when watching that film and Rhuarc brought back too many silly impressions.) Off on a bit of a tangent, many years ago I was flying over the Mediterranean on a crystal clear day when we flew just south of Stromboli. There was a large cone of smoke coming out - I assume it must also have been an absolutely still day - not a cloud, not an eruption, just an inverted cone with the apex down at the mouth of the volcano. (A bit like this, except it was dark smoke: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/scientists-are-beginning-to-unravel-the-secrets-of-icelands-recent-eruptions-180983818/ .) And it looked so much like the long distance pictures of Rand channelling at the end. A volcano, then, in my head canon and not a tornado. PS: I hope this episode will put paid to any lingering doubts that the show is not showing Rand's full power. The amount of channelling in those final scenes (aided by some tai chi) is immense, especially when compared with the meagre amounts being called by Moiraine or Lanfear.

Exactly! That was what my mind was searching for! 😊 I expected something like that from the previous scene from the way he was looking at it🤣 and yes, I loved it. ... I'll ask a question of my own. Did anyone obsessively replay the Rand-dismisses-Sammael scene? When the last tendrils of power are going through his hand as he stares fascinated at them, Josha... smiles.