I am one of the resident naysayers but never begrudge anyone who likes the show. Anecdotal as it is, I had three friends who read this series multiple times since high school or college, all of which went through all the stages of grief as they watched it, and the newcomers who just read it prior to the show who couldn’t stand it, there was 7 of us total for our watch parties. With that said, if you do/did I envy you and am happy you’re having a good time. I’ll go over the good which I did find some/and the bad from my perspective. Some from season 1 and now that I’ve seen all of season 2, from it as well. 
 

Things done well:

1. Egwene’s character development. Great job in covering how channelers are perceived by the Seanchan  as well as the horrors of the a’dam. Really solid work. 
 

2. Elayne’s personality and her noble air were fantastic. I think they leaned a little too much into the “privilege” aspect of the high born concept, and made me roll my eyes a bit when she walked into Egwene’s room and and couldn’t figure out it wasn’t already furnished, but somehow could identify two rivers stitchwork on the blanket, it was weird she was so observant and yet oblivious at the same time,  but when she stood up to Sheriam and nobly took her punishment, that was done quite well and her personality seems right on the money. 
 

3. The performance from the new actor who plays Mat. Loved the cheekiness he brought to the screen, he genuinely made me laugh and smile, but wish the script helped him more in achieving this goal. 
 

4. Practical Effects of Trollocs were pretty good. 
 

5. Whitecloaks costume design also got a huge facelift from what I remember from season 1 to season 2.
 

Things I don’t think were done very well: 
 

Both seasons regularly malign the men to elevate female counterparts or merely focus on them and before people come at me like this is an invention of the mind or made up…

1) Perrin Kills a wife he never had. (Horrible choice and terribly executed Fridging). 

2) Rand either severely wounds or kills someone for being mean, and sleeps with Lanfear. He never slept with Lanfear in the series and rejected her as Selene.  

3) Mat wounds Rand and even after healing isn’t really helpful. 
4) Rand’s big moment in both Eye of the World and The Great Hunt are either given to the women or greatly reduced and he requires saving. 
The men all come off as incompetent at best or are just kind of there... it’s like they are passengers in their own plot lines. 
 

It’s only highlighted further when they spend the majority of the time with the ladies and really only give them the positive screen time. The director even admitted to Egwene to being his favorite, which is fine, but I don’t think there is really any argument to be had that her story wasn’t the best of season #2…while the guys in comparison are all hardly getting any impactful screen time. The men also require being saved when they weren’t in the books, and they kill off characters that never died for a desperate attempt at “dramatic effect.” The Magic system is also extremely inconsistent or not explained well. Moiraine had an inverted weave used on her for a shield, but there’s no reason she wouldn’t be able to sense the source, just wouldn’t be able to access it. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the magic system works from the writers. I loved the animated shorts compared to the live action and honestly think 10 seasons of that animation style would have been absolutely incredible. I wish I got 50 min episodes of that. It was done so well. The scale, the lore, the pacing, the artwork, did anyone else feel that way?  17 minutes of animated shorts wasn’t enough. 
 

Excuses I see used too often: 

1. “We had to cut characters for time.” Yet they had enough time to add entire episodes for characters that weren’t present or stories that they completely invented.  
 

2. “It’s a new turning of the wheel.” Even if I wanted to subscribe to this, it’s not. A new turning would be new lives, potentially having Perrin, Rand, and Mat as distant memories. At best this is a reflection world, or a world of what could have been…which was also something they cut completely from the story. 

3. “This was to streamline the plot and create character development,” okay then…how come such techniques for character development weren’t used for any of the women? Why are all the terrible behaviors and horrible parents, and things of the like reserved for the men? Sure, family died for Nyneave, but how come Egwene didn’t have some vice added and her mom wasn’t a thieving drunk? Or how come Elayne didn’t accidentally kill her brothers? These are extremely lazy and negative tropes, that they only felt necessary for the men to experience and this was done with intent. 

Rand only learned the sword off screen when he should have been taught by Lan, and they added a convoluted story about him being an aid at a mental health facility of some kind, they turned the really cool subplot of the invitations and Daes Dae’Mar into a tepid scene at best, (he should have been with Hurin and Loial), they gave him a throwaway line about “Cat Crosses the Courtyard,” to imply he’s learned the sword, he was easily knelt and shielded by a single Aes Sedai, either extremely wounds or kills someone who although not a good person was out of character for him especially at this point in the story, he slept with Lanfear and needed to be saved by Moiraine when he rejected her as Selene in the book, subsequently they cut the blademaster duel, as well as Ingtar’s redemption arc, and Rand’s shining moment against Ishamael. Rand is proven to be incapable again and the miracle that reveals him to the world is extremely underwhelming.

Mat had the introduction to his prowess with the bowstaff literally given to Nyneave. It easily could have introduced Galad and Gawyn, but they needlessly show Nynaeve fighting with a sword instead and keep Mat locked in the basement forever... Instead of having him locked up it would have been a perfect time to show us he’s gained luck at taverns…fighting Galad and Gawyn, meeting Hammar…having a flashback to his dad teaching him. Etc. The female characters already have amazing moments, but every single one now for the men in two seasons have been either given to the women, watered down, or flipped it into they need to be saved. I think you would be hard pressed to say the most impressive stories in both seasons didn’t involve Egwene, Nynaeve, or Moiraine. 

As for Perrin…his entire character was gutted in the first episodes of the show, he is more depressing of a character now than he ever was in Winter’s Heart or the “slog” and they haven’t even begun to show us how he is going to climb out of his mental hole, and I’m not sure they can. Two entire seasons to barely touch a weapon…hell he hasn’t even been depicted as an effective blacksmith yet really. I remember his wife working the forge more than he did, and maybe he was looking around a bit in Fal Dara at forges? Also, when he saved Gaul in the book the cage it is depicted as many feet up in the air that took multiple men to set into place. In the show it’s not even a foot off the ground and it’s Aviendha. He should have killed whitecloaks in season 1 when they were captured and should have been the one that broke them out, not Egwene. Also, it would have been perfectly fine for the actual struggle he had to be killing whitecloaks and not a fake wife he never had…that was seriously unforgivable and was advised against by Sanderson…and his character has been so lost ever since due to that creative choice. Unlike some, I’m not always opposed to fridging if done well…but this was not only an invented act of fridging that didn’t move the character forward, it completely changes the character.  If anything, he has been the most stagnant character in the entire show now, barely even touching an axe that he could have had the entire time had they just told the story as it was written in the book. 
 

other characters that were done dirty in both seasons: (side note, any time something is critiqued for the ladies I’ve seen, it’s because they were given an ability or do something that they didn’t have/do. It’s a negative due to an additional trait or action, whereas the men’s negatives are always due to either a negative trait being given to them or a skill being nerfed or completely removed). 

Uno: the character that was arguably the most faithful to the books in the entire show gets curb stomped on a horn… 

Ingtar: A subplot about redemption is completely forgotten nor is he even given memorable lines as a character. 
 

Bran: You wouldn’t know he was the mayor of Emond’s Field or that the village Council is the male counterpart to the Women’s Circle.

Hurin: A Great tertiary character who is just  a servant/Normal dude who when told by the heroes of the horn there is no shame in not fighting pulls out his weapon to ride with Artur Hawkwing and the heroes of old…and beams* with pride when Artur says something to the tune of, “we sometimes add to our ranks,” Such a cool moment. (This couldn’t happen because we didn’t introduce Elyas when we should have, and we had to have Moiriane’s family drama that never happened eat up time).
 

Elyas: Introduced late and should have challenged the way of the leaf in season 1 in order to push Perrin’s character development way earlier. It would have also given great discussions to be had as a viewer reader or not. Violence or non-violence? Instead of hearing two great arguments from different sides, we got a monologue from one perspective. 
 

Loial: Literally had all of his purpose given to Moiraine. Hardly ever lends knowledge to the viewer especially regarding prophesy when he would be perfect for it. He Looked to be stabbed with A Shadar Logoth dagger but apparently is okay now. 
 

Agelmar: Season 1) killed. One of the Five great captains, and in the book was deeply respectful of women and revered the Aes Sedai, was reduced to a sexist

and arrogant fool. 
 

Abel: Season 1) Went from being a father who taught Mat about horse trading, Bowstaff fighting, and walking to Tar Valon with Tam to find their boys…to a Drunken, cheating, coward, who left his daughters to be eaten by Trollocs. Yes, he didn’t have a ton of page time, but this was just another example of character assassination that wasn’t necessary. If anything, showing him use a staff at Bel Tine earlier would have explained Mat’s skills more effectively later.
 

Tam: Season 1) Went from taking on multiple Trollocs by himself at the farmhouse to not even being able to take on 1 without help. He’s a blademaster, expert archer, and competent Bowstaff fighter…but not made to be on screen. Tigraine on the other hand, takes on 7 assailants while giving birth… nerfing of the men, elevation of the women. 

Lan: Season 1/2) Gets bested constantly in combat, has Nynaeve sneak up on him and get a knife to his throat, then has to ask her how to track Moiraine…because “she has a tell,” has his speech ruined by immediately having him sleep with her after he gives it, has his tea drugged by his friend who he was supposed to be guarding who then kills themself…this guy is supposed to be one of the best warriors in the world and it never comes off that way. 
 

Anyways, I hope this articulates some of my grievances, as well as show some of the things they did do well. I do think Rings of Power is worse, “I aaaaaaam Gooooooood!” Lolol, but they didn’t have the Silmarillion to work off of directly, this show literally had all the books to draw from. At least Rings of Power has that excuse. Regardless, may you always find water and shade, enjoy yourself with the show, and if not, dive back into the books or audiobooks. Cheers. 

I Broke it down by Male/Female and then Tertiary characters after that. I may revisit it to try and rank them all together later, but it will take more time to work through. 
 

Men: 

#1 Perrin (underrated) 

#2 Mat ( grows on you) 

#3 Rand ( amazing story) 

#4 Lan - Fun Fact: (Mandragora which is commonly known as mandrake symbolizes vengeance, and this character through the entire series is seeking vengeance for his people. I learned this while reading a book on the symbolism of plants and flowers).

#5 Loial  (So darn lovable, but brave too. Saves the little ones in the Stone of Tear).

#6 Thom (Also a great character. A toss up between him and Loial, but Loial edged him out just barely for me).

Women: 

#1 Nynaeve (Her motivations and journey was the most powerful to me). 

#2 Aviendha (The way she loves is unique and she is very brave as well).

#3 Verin (crazy story).

#4 Faile (Gets far too much hate in my opinion).

#5 Moiraine 

#6 Elayne 

#7 Egwene (Has colossally bad taste in men).

Tertiary Characters:

#1 Talmanes ( Super funny to me and loyal).

#2 Gaul (You couldn’t ask for a better friend, if you know you know, no spoilers).

#3 Tam (Dad of the year award).

#4 Noal (redemption).
 

#5 Galad (misjudged).

#6 Cadsuane.

I almost feel like they should do everything at the end through implication. Through the ladies link behavior etc. and focus on the pipe. Sometimes less is more. I’m worried they will do too much to try and show it and it will come off as odd or be a bad visual. They should make it David Lynch like and make it surreal if they want it to be a visual, make it interesting. One change I would love is if on the hill Bella walks up and the actor shows familiarity to the character. After he hops on, lights the pipe. Gives a wry smile and Clint Eastwood’s over the hill. 

They required too much budget too soon and everything suffered just ever so slightly for it. In GOT they were able to front load on location and costume design as primary budget requirements, and when they got to later seasons they could focus larger portions of the budget on CGI etc. (on a side note I personally wish they incorporated more practical effects on certain things as well). The costume design was good, but not quite as spectacular as I thought it would be. 
 

The character shifts made me irate, it is what it is. Particularly Perrin, Mat, Rand, and Loial’s character development, but I begrudge no one who enjoyed it. To each their own. To me this wasn’t a new turning; it was one of those portal stone realms that was off, or had a wrongness to it. Still going to watch because I love the property and I’ve got a whole crew reading the books now. It’s been fun talking about and having dinner parties, which is also what I love about this fan base in general. Good vibes. 

10 episodes would be ideal if they were truly using that time to build up character arcs and plot points properly. I would’ve done ten episodes and book end the season with episodes that were like an hour and a half. (Yes, this would cost more of course), but the problem that arises, is they had already avoided telling main character plot points because they decided to make it a mystery. So it’s hard to truly know how giving them these extra episodes/time would have been beneficial and not just filler or dead space. 

9 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

They have small capes on their backs

Haha, I’m just playing but this is what you made me think of. All things considered I really like what they did with them. 
 

*I also want to add that I 100% agree about the capes vs. cloaks. 

Does this completely remove the Hunt for the Horn then? How long has it been there? / how does this impact Faile and even Lord Luc? Does the rest of the world think it’s still missing? Interesting to see how this will play out.

1 minute ago, KakitaOCU said:

Maybe all your fears are true and it's an evil leftist anti man plot.

I’ve never once said this is a leftist plot. You are putting words in my mouth. I don’t have to be a conservative to want fair representation for men. 

On 11/19/2021 at 2:24 PM, Skipp said:

My initial thoughts led me to a pregnancy related thing.  But now after hearing about the Laila darkfriend thing I believe all the tension is from her getting dreams about needing to capture/kill her husband when the time comes.  I believe we will see more of this story played out one way or another as the show progresses.

This right here would redeem this story and explain why the wolf is a benefit. That his instincts were correct. 
 

1 minute ago, KakitaOCU said:

Yep, arrogance on both sides, which doesn't negate his.  She's being arrogant in that scene telling him there's no way to succeed and he's already failed.  She's right in hindsight but she didn't know or give him consideration just like he didn't give her any.

This still doesn’t address why his legitimate points weren’t given screen time at all. This isn’t an equal and opposite parts situation.
 

3 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

He was too arrogant to compromise and work with people. 

The women refused to help him too. His logic or argumentation wasn’t even given proper treatment or representation. He thought their weapons would just be stolen by the forsaken and they were already losing a battle of attrition handily. This wasn’t highlighted at all. He saw them as just wanting to hide from the problem. Instead of us getting both sides in a fair light, they just lecture to us again about the complete arrogance of men. I do hope you are right that this is actually addressed in the next season though. It also doesn’t make sense as an unreliable narration here because it was mostly from Lews Therin’s point of view. So why not give us unreliable narration from him? It was just bizarre. Instead we are getting proof of his hubris and why he is an arrogant fool from his own perspective. Which makes no sense.

10 minutes ago, CanisNoir said:

 

Gotcha, and I can see how it might be a missed opportunity to further distinguish between the two but when I think about it, how would Moiraine, or any current Aes Sedi for that matter, know what The Male half is like beyond knowing they can't see the weaves. They gentle every male channeler as soon as possible. She could have said "You know, I can't because, well we turn every man who channels into a soulless husk before they can destroy everything." but I don't think that would have been as easily accepted by Rand as "the sooner you channel the sooner you'll go mad".

 

I think now that the show has a prominent and active male channeler we'll have more opportunities to explore the difference between the two halfs.

They even say to Logain he will be studied until the madness takes him. They’ve likely done the same to any man who can channel pre or post gentling they would likely have many research books giving descriptions of the differences by the mouths of male channelers written by browns. 

1 minute ago, CanisNoir said:

 

Allana did say that Women can't see Men's weaves and Logain was able to channel without using any hand movements. I took Moiraine's answer to Rand as her being an Aes Sedi and not wanting to admit ignorance. 

 

I think in general Moiraines plan was flawed by Aes Sedi arrogance, and her over reliance upon "The Wheel Weaves as The Wheel Wills" which is why she was okay tossing an untrained and clueless Dragon at The Dark One with just a Sa'Angreal and hopes that The Pattern would take care of the rest. I took it as more a reflection of The Aes Sedi as a whole and Moiraine as a character more than I did it being a poorly written disrespect of the source. Still, it was a really silly plan so I understand why it bothered you.

 

I agree with all that 100% ^,  but still think it would just be way easier and more clarifying to simply say, “Saidin is too different from Saidar. One is a raging torrent of fire and the other is a calm but massive river…” go on to give Rand “the talk” about the fish and the birds, bla bla, you get it. Haha. Nor do I think it was intentional disrespect or anything like that, more of just a missed opportunity. 

11 minutes ago, CanisNoir said:

 

How have they changed those concepts in the show? There's a definite distinction made between Saidar and Saidin, and both Rand and Lews Therin channel Saidin with Rand having a tainted version that will drive him mad. I don't see any changes here. 

 

On the show I haven’t really seen a true justification as to why women can’t teach men yet, the animations notwithstanding. But the part that really bothered me is Moiraine basically says she won’t teach him anything and then gives him a super weapon…it’s like a parent saying they refuse to teach their 18 year old gun safety or how to operate a firearm, but they’ll buy them a rocket launcher, it just left me scratching my head. 

1 minute ago, Chivalry said:

 

That would be criminal!

?

Hahaha, totally. Not gonna happen, don’t worry. 

On 12/27/2021 at 2:37 PM, Sabio said:

Not to mention Rand has done no sword training at all, so he would get beat bad if he tried to fight Turak again.

Don’t worry, the Aiel will make sure to teach him how to use the sword. ??

1 minute ago, ArrylT said:

 

I would have liked to have seen Master Luhhan - however the absence of something in the show does not mean it did not occur - it simply was not portrayed.  I suppose we'll know in a few seasons if that character will make an appearance (ie will Perrin return to Two Rivers to become the Lord unwillingly).

 

 

He mentions his parents in Ep2 in Shadar Logoth and says to Mat he is convinced they will help Egwenes parents look after Mats sisters.

 

Just to be clear - I only responded to those 2 points because that was all I feel I could contribute. 

 

I completely respect your perspective on Perrin, even if I do not share it (although I do agree on some points) , and definitely did not feel it was too "long".  Personally I think posts like that are great.  I really enjoy seeing how other people think about characters and what they are looking for in that character and what is missing.

 

Anyways, basically, as mentioned above, I am happy with Perrin so far, while still quite open to having had more Perrin centric scenes.   One of my favorite sections from EOTW that wont make it in the show is the chase by the ravens just before then enter the stedding. 

 

If I had to make a top 5 of the characters from the books - Perrin would definitely be in that top 5.   He is in my current top 5 of the show.  

I had forgotten the part of his family being mentioned, good catch, so that’ is a little redeeming for me I’ll have to do a rewatch to pick up some more, and add a * in my original post for the correction.
 

Wasn’t overly thrilled with the flashbacks as they utilized them so I hope Luhan isn’t done that way if they do. It felt rushed when they did it for Tam. I just always found Perrin to be lithe and dangerous, even more so as he became more like the wolves, and man was he just all around a bummer to watch when he was on screen, haha. I’m not giving up yet, but it’s been rough for some of the characters. 

On 11/24/2021 at 2:07 PM, JJLXL said:

  Hide contents

Ok, the burning scene was fine.  You can explain away why the Aes Sedai didn't fight her way out.

 

The scene with Moiraine was either terribly written or there have been big changes.  Maybe both? 

 

First of all, White Cloaks would recognize(at the very least) Aes Sedai agelessness.  The fact that they didn't(Valda especially) is proof of bad writing or agelessness is totally out. 

 

Second, they would recognize a Warder traveling with his Aes Sedai.  This could be explained away I guess, so not a huge deal.

 

Third, and my biggest critique.  White Cloaks are kind of like Hyenas.  Generally speaking they're a bit cowardly on their own, but ferocious in numbers.  They clearly had the upper hand with the Dragon troop.  Why wouldn't Valda have simply asked Moiraine if she were Aes Sedai?  She couldn't lie, and if she stalled with a wordy answer, they would have seized them all. Bad writing or??  If there were any suspicions whatsoever, why wouldn't White Cloaks simply ask the woman if she is Aes Sedai?

 

 

This to me was what I interpreted as the Whitecloak split. It showed kindness from the other leader who actually told them to go get healed by an Aes Sedai and I kinda felt some undercurrents. I think they are just showing how there are factions within the Whitecloak ranks. This was also necessary because there are good Whitecloaks in the book so it is nice they didn’t just make all of them evil point blank. 

Disclaimer: I am very biased about Perrin. My first dog as a child was a massive wolf dog/German Shepherd mix that was 125lbs, I’m 6ft with a burly beard, and I’ve always been a very pensive person. I related to his character more than any other, and what they have done really stings. I know it’s just a book and kind of silly to get worked up over but still. 
 

It’s difficult for me to deal with these changes. In the books he wrestled with the potential of crossing the line, but never actually did. With the Whitecloaks it was debatable at most, because he had information nobody else could corroborate for an argument of self defense. 
 

-He didn’t get the gentle mentorship from Luhan who was basically a kind uncle figure or second father figure.

-He doesn’t meet Elyas. A much needed mentor. 

-He kills his wife… 

-We barely get any of the wolves. Sorry Hopper. 

-Where is his family? His motivation for going home. *I have been informed they were mentioned in episode 2. This is a little redeeming, so that’s good,

*

-Doesn’t kill a handful of whitecloaks. (This should have been the big moment/what he wrestled with). Would have been easy to make super amazing visually and narratively. He felt like an afterthought and the moment was given to Egwene. (Also, I read somewhere he and Rand were put on the back burner for the Dragon Reveal).

Some think Laila dying by Trollocs wouldn’t be enough, but I disagree. Maybe have him either be so caught up in the moment he couldn’t go to help her, or have him struggle with not acting soon enough… but it would have been an excellent catalyst to push him towards the wolf and go into the rage more and more throughout the season seeking to defend what he failed to protect at first.  Then have him kill whitecloaks and create the conflict This would set it up nicely for his later development between the hammer and axe, without just relying on all the Whitecloaks being cartoonishly evil,(even though Valda does it exceedingly well*it doesn’t really make sense in the same way that he becomes their Whitecloaks most wanted*) maybe have one of them look younger as an innocence fakeout? Then he can start to contemplate.
 

A lot of people complain about how he moped in the middle of the series, this was 1000x worse than that for me. “Get rid of the Faile capture story, it’s boring and he becomes too depressed.” “Okay!” (Immediately kills a wife he never had and makes him Eeyore for the entire season). I’m going to give them season 2 to see if they can fix this, but wow. 

I just hate what they have done in its entirety so far for his character. I get some people love the changes/May never have liked Perrin before, but many fans did. I loved how he was always there for Rand (except a short time in The Great Hunt) and most of the time in the world of Dreams where nobody ever saw his exploits. He quietly did what needed doing.

and if they give him this plot still. It is such overkill. I think they painted themselves into a corner. As for potential changes I always thought it would have been cool to give him the

As for his struggles. He was always faithful to his wife, it was the ladies cattiness and his soldiers starting scuttlebutt in the camp in a perception vs. reality situation that always got him into trouble. (This is one thing in the show I think they did right to give credit where it’s due, but way too soon). Plus it remains to be seen that they don’t continue down this road and make it even messier. They have just overloaded us on incompetence and potential scummy behavior way too soon and at the same time no less, and there isn’t anything to balance it out yet really. It left us with a character who hasn’t really done anything all season. The Wolves got richer character development and we barely saw them. 

The struggle with killing was whether or not he liked it too much in a Viking bloodlust / the Hunt sort of way and him balancing that with the necessity of violence to protect those he loved. They’ve completely shifted it to killing = bad+guilty over Laila. This was also supported by wonderfully thought out non-violent perspectives. And the arguments for violence has been reduced to kindergartner logic. If they had Elyas he could have at least challenged their position with a subtle accusation of cowardice masquerading as virtue. Then the Tinkers could in turn question Elyas and his motivations. That as a viewer would have been really compelling to watch play out. Give me good arguments from both sides. Make me as a viewer wrestle with the decision Perrin has to make himself. Anyway, apologies for the long post. 

51 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

My distinction is in if there's any type of humorous tie to the facts.

The insults towards the book purists are wrong and shouldn't happen but work on the premise of drawing parallels in behavior.

The insults towards the show fans are wrong and shouldn't happen and work on trying to make them less relevant or less valid than the book purists.

The difference between "Hey, you're factually acting kind of like this bad guy group" and "Hey, you're a lesser fan and your opinion isn't valid or real." is clear.

It is a tool to create guilt by association. Just as often without proof as with, which is peak irony to me since that is the accusation being levied.
 

You’re a shill/sellout = you’re a shill / sellout 

you’re a darkfriend = you’re an evil sellout as a darkfriend essentially selling their soul for power. 

you’re the dark one = you’re Satan…

You’re a whitecloak = you’re a dogmatic zealot (which the fandom often likens to two horrific groups). So, I fail to see the humor here. What is it? Tee-hee I’m going to say that you are like the Spanish Inquisition, but I don’t actually want to say it? Not sure if it’s funny. Definitely hyperbolic. I just see irony when the accusations come from those who are often exhibiting the same behavior though. 
 

Regardless, this is getting into semantics, we can most certainly agree both of those extreme groups often behave in a self righteous fashion. I’m merely saying the one using “clever” book terms will often just wildly throw around these terms in an attempt to label all of their opposition with a book slur and associate them with negatives for future encounters; this is to immediately discredit anything they have to say. 
 

It just looks like this to me: 

17 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

  

Let's be very frank here.  This is not a "Both sides" thing.  While I dislike the Bookcloaks and other name calling (and you'll note I have not used such).  There's a difference between a comical name and outright accusation that disagreeing is a sign of deliberate corporate sell out or manipulation.

There's even a difference in the use:
Bookcloak: Comical reference to White Cloak because the book purists feel they're doing the right thing but are going overboard.  It's an insult, it's not really appropriate, but there's a kernel of truth in how many book purists behave.

Where as the stance of "You're not a real fan, you're a fake, you're a sell out, you can't possibly have a different opinion than me without being a failure on some level"  that's...  yeah.

Both are insulting, both are inappropriate, one is heavier than the other.

 

Yes let’s be frank…People calling those that disagree with the show as the dark one or darkfriends is outrageously offensive. Particularly since the dark one is inspired by Islamic and Judeo-Christian demons / Satan… you are going to say this is nowhere near the same as being called a sellout? Come on…and it simultaneously implies they are right by default without having to actually argue points, because what’s the point in arguing with a “darkfriend”? They’re darkfriends. Both of these otherise. Let’s not pretend one is tongue in cheek though. It’s just as sanctimonious and condescending.  
 

*Both of these insults are ridiculous to me. We’re all fans here. Thinking differently doesn’t make anyone “not a fan”. It’s all Ad Hominem and Straw Man nonsense.*

7 minutes ago, Ralph said:

9 days acc to http://www.stevenac.net/wot/tl0998.htm#book1

 

Don't recall this

None of this explains how to show all this on the screen

Any of the number of Bel Tine competitions that could have built exposition for almost all the men at the same time in 30 seconds or less as a contrast to the women’s circle ceremony. Perrin holding a nice axe that he or Luhan just forged instead of his wife plot. I think there are any number of ways this could have been done. * I also would have made Abel a skilled quarterstaff warrior during the attack instead of what they did do, they still could have put his daughters in danger and had Mat go after them. 

14 minutes ago, CanisNoir said:

They took different routes to get there, sure, but it seems to me as if we've ended up in the right spot for Season 1.

I guess just seeing a side by side for where the men should be/ what they have technically already done in the books vs. the women on screen is bothering me. Even in the incomplete list I showed you there are a bunch more for Perrin. God, he has just coasted through an entire season and his big moment was just awful. ( Mat’s development is the one I give significant wiggle room on because yeah the dagger and they had unforeseen complications with the actor dropping out but even then he’s not speaking in the old tongue which could have easily been when he was cussing at the kid, his backstory is a mess, and he really wasn’t even truly his plucky self before the dagger due to their changes), so many of the big moments are missing but this is also underscored by the fact they are all missing very important smaller moments as well. 
 

* also thank you for the back and forth. This is type of discussion I look forward to on here. So thank you. 

2 minutes ago, CanisNoir said:

Also, just because Rands "Power Move" at the eye wasn't as flashy, doesn't mean it wasn't more impactful. Rand's little blast in Episode 8 is, by far, the most world impacting piece of channeling we've seen in the show so far. Also, at this point in the books, our characters were still pretty clueless teenagers fairly reliant upon Moraine for all of their agency. It's really not until Book 3 and beyond where they start to take on lives of their own. 

This was his last “power move” to really have. They already cut the lighting strike earlier. And for many they keep saying “adapting for visual medium” yes, his move was impactful from a literary sense but it was just as confusing if not more so than the book, so now, he isn’t doing anything at the same level of visual importance as anyone else, he’s lost his big moment, and people are still confused. 
 

No sword training (break down sturdy door) 

No Caemlyn / standing up to whitecloaks 

No music training

No lighting strike (push guy off ledge)

He had one more move to play…Tarwin’s Gap. Which was also taken away. He’s almost done none of the things he is supposed to have accomplished at this point in the book. And the ones he has the development was rushed or extremely lackluster.
 

Yes, 100% agree they should have all been on the wall, but why not allow for Rand to come back and help save them? Especially in a situation where we are strapped for time we now need to spend even more time with Rand for us to understand who and what he is and what he is capable of. I thought we needed to use time wisely. We already saw Moiraine walk through blue light and end up somewhere else. They have already implied abilities of that nature existed with an angreal or not it wouldn’t matter, people would just say, “ohhhhh, he did what she did without a picture.” I think their decisions are specious at best. None of the men are where they should be character wise and we are already in Book 2 territory.