Jackdaw_Fool
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Posts posted by Jackdaw_Fool
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3 minutes ago, Skipp said:
The scene is subtitled and the subtitle translates Saidin simply as "The One power"
Thanks. Yeah, I mentioned that myself in the other thread so I don't think that is what was being referred to. I said I was thinking the speaking of "saidin" in the old tongue in that scene might actually have been used to mean "your power" which was spoken to LTT by LPD only a few words later, as in maybe a male possessive form of "the power" but that was just conjecture and I'm sure beyond the allowed scope of this discussion (I didn't myself hear saidin, it was all just gobbledeegook to me.)
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Apologies if this doesn't belong here, but multiple people told me (I forget who, but TheDreadReader is one) in the previous thread that saidin and "the male half of the one power" were explicitly mentioned in the show. I had asked if someone could point me to where (I know it's in the bonus material, but they said it was in the show). Does anyone know?
Specifically for episode 8, based on Moraine's explanation to Rand as to why she could not teach him, how she described the making of the sa'angreal, and how the power was spoken of in the prologue, I'm presently thinking there is not a distinction in the show regarding there being male and female halves of the one power. If I've somehow missed that there was an explicit mention of it somewhere that would be really helpful in clarifying things. Thanks!
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3 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:
Saidin is explicitly mentioned in the show as is the phrase "the male half of the one power".
Thanks! Where is that? I must have missed it!
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5 hours ago, Ralph said:
She said was made by men. Why would this have to be if they are the same?
She doesn't say that though. She says: "This is a sa'angreal. It was made before the Breaking of the World, created from the One Power itself." Why wouldn't she just say it was a male sa'angreal, if the powers were different? One measly word - "male" - is all that would have been needed.
If the power is gendered and they have saidin and saidar, they have to start laying the groundwork for it somewhere, and they have totally avoided mentioning it the entire first season now. Which is odd as it would have been easier to explain than to go out of your way to not mention at this point. They didn't even have to use the fancy words, saidin and saidar. "The one power has both a male half and a female half, Egwene. The male half was tainted by the Dark One due to men's arrogance. But thankfully we channel the female half." So with the strange continual omission at every opportunity, I am rightfully suspicious of its existence.
All the little "clues" you mention may point to there being a distinction. I'm not saying there isn't saidin/saidar, just that there may not be. But the things you mention are so subtle and may also just point to there just being a distinction between male and female channelers, which there seems to be per the prologue (all the men with LTT, all the women with LPD, the men's club gets the dragon's fang, the female club the white flame), etc.
Even "your power" doesn't refer to what you suggest in the dialogue. Latra is stating if LTT does what he plans, the power he uses to do it (your power) could run out of control, run unchecked, and throw them all back a thousand years or more. Again they totally sidestep the male/female half of the power from being described.
Anyway, my point was only that Moiraine said thousands of male channelers put their power into the sa'angreal, but that doesn't mean thousands of female channelers didn't also. I was thinking that if the dragon turned out to be, say, Egwene as it is implied Moiraine may have been suspecting, that perhaps she too could have used the sa'angreal. After all, it wasn't stated to belong to a certain gender, and perhaps in this show sa'angreal can be used by either gender (as was suggested by the post I was replying to.)
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16 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:
The way it is depicted can easily be interpreted as the men creating the taint, not that the taint it a part of the OP
This. Or that simply there is only the one power and it is tainted when used by men. There is certainly nothing there that proves there are separate components to the one power or that saidin or saidar exist.
16 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:they seem to know (or think they do) what is a male Angreal though, right? Or are they wrong about that too and all angreal can be used be either men or women?
Moiraine only tells Rand the idol she gives him is a s'angreal, not a male s'angreal. She says a thousand male channelers put their power into it, but that doesn't mean a thousand female channelers didn't also. Maybe in the show it (and all such items) are gender inconsequential, and it would have worked for Egwene too.
ETA: Moiraine also tells Rand the idol was made with the "one power"... Again no mention of saidin.
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2 minutes ago, Mirefox said:
some big “reveal” later in the series. Something like Rand telling Moiraine “you were wrong all along, our powers are separate and I can fix us…”.
Interesting idea, though after being beaten over the head by the themes of the first season I'd think it more likely Nynaeve would make this discovery and ultimately be responsible for cleansing saidin.
- Son of Lance and Mirefox
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14 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:
The show has made absolutely clear that Saidin is tainted, so that hasn't changed.
I've always thought I was pretty good at seeing things that were absolutely clear, and I haven't seen anything in the show about saidin. In fact, I don't think saidin and saidar are even things in this show based on what the show has told me... Did I miss something? I know about the bonus content where it is mentioned, but I don't think that counts. Thought Moiraine would mention it as the reason she couldn't teach Rand, but no. Thought it would be mentioned in the conversation between arrogant LTT and wise and all knowing Latra, but no. They've totally gone out of their way to not mention it... Or it just doesn't exist in the show. It's been an entire season, so I'm forced to go with the latter.
- WoTwasThat, chri5, Sammuthegreat and 1 other
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2 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:
Yet, they mentioned saidin and that it may be tainted by LTT's action. Hence, my post.
I don't understand... Are you referring to the prologue of episode 8 still? If so, they didn't mention saidin. It was referred to only as the "one power." I think I read someone mention that an astute listener would hear that the word saidin was spoken somewhere in the dialogue in the old tongue, but it's easily arguable that only what was translated in the subtitles should matter. And there they told the viewers "one power"...
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1 hour ago, RextheDog said:
what were his options;
a)defend the gap by maning the only structure between it and the blight
b)....
Just to add to Testeria's great reply... This scene was awful because of the ludicrous apparent lack of preparation. The show makes it seem that those were the only options. But where were the scouts? Why didn't they know days or weeks in advance that a force of that size was amassing and heading to the gap? They were instead totally surprised. Oh Lord Agelmar, look! There's this huge trolloc force amassing at our doorstep! And we totally didn't invite them! The nerve! Their job by birthright is basically to defend the world from the forces of the dark one spilling forth from the blight, and apparently they don't even have scouts?
What a silly wall structure... Really? They need balistraria/arrow slits so strangely oversized weakening the wall structure AND need them as low as the second floor where basically the one thing they are defending against (trollocs) can easily climb to them? It's a structure designed to be defeated by trollocs. When they mentioned they had darkfriends within Fal Dara, they must have meant all the engineers.
They could have also spent some time devising some effective military tactics... (I'm not an expert... but I did watch LoTR!
) When the Shienarans mounted and Agelmar called out his "For the light! Shienar!" charge, I thought we would be seeing some dramatic cinematography similar to the charges by say Rohan against Sauron's forces at Minas Tirith. LOL - instead, they literally charge across the field and then... Dismount. "Right then, leave all your horses somewhere out of sight, men! We won't be needing them! We have this ridiculously ineffective wall to all die inside of! Climb on in!"
Could go on, but there is no point.
- nsmallw, fra85uk, Sammuthegreat and 4 others
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4 hours ago, Harad the White said:
Let's face it, there is no link. What other reason is there to avoid the simple act of posting it?
Maybe because you are being a real trolloc about this? I happened to have just read this thread through from start to finish so the post he was referring to was fresh in my mind.
Here is the post from around page 6. If you listen to the podcast in his link (the podcast is lengthy... within it they spend half an hour or so interviewing Rafe), it is exactly as he described. The specific part he refers to is at 1:47:34.
They talk about theories regarding the show and ask Rafe if, in regards to Perrin's wife, the word "darkfriend" means anything. Rafe immediately replies "No."... Very quickly as AusLeviathan says "without even giving himself a moment to think about his reaction so this is almost certainly the truth." They continue discussing the subject and talk about what darkfriends are and talk about people theorizing and Rafe says they are noticing things worth noticing. I imagine he is referring to the fact that some of the characters we see will in fact end up being darkfriends... But he clearly put to rest the Laila being a darkfriend thing as advertised.
On 12/3/2021 at 3:27 AM, AusLeviathan said:Just before that they were talking about Laila and Rafe was asked if she was a Darkfriend to which he immediately said no (he said it very fast without even giving himself a moment to think about his reaction so this is almost certainly the truth).
There is something to the scene but it's not that she's Darkfriend, they really were just trying to play up the hammer. What is possible is that they bring the actress back, either for use in TAR or for someone to use her appearance in trying to trick Perrin.
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So I know how this forum has instituted the rule where all posts must end with "excelsior!" or the user will be banned, but I did have a question. Does the excelsior truly have to come at the end of the post, or is it sufficient to just be within our signature?
P.S. Everyone has become too serious in this forum.
P.S.S. Excelsior!
- ArrylT, Arie and themann1086
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30 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:
Mark the date, December 24th, the day Episode 8 featured a twist that caused the fan base to lose its mind.
He has the foretelling!
- DaddyFinn, chri5, AusLeviathan and 1 other
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13 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:
The truth is that Brandon is talking about how he chooses to characterize the show to mentally process the changes that have been made.
Gotcha. But still... Does Sanderson consider the show an adaption of the Wheel of Time books, or not? Apparently from that quote he does not. That's interesting is all...
ETA: Certainly wouldn't have given AusLeviathan an F on reading comprehension...
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Wait, so after I read through all that with regards to what Sanderson said or didn't say... And the poster everyone was pestering posted the exact screen shot showing what he was saying as requested... Now it doesn't matter anyway?
Sad Perrins for everyone!
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Sometimes the discussions here are very confusing...
1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:Prove it. Screenshot the post of Sanderson saying this isn't an adaptation of the WoT books. You will be graded on your reading comprehension.
To which AusLeviathan posts a screenshot of Sanderson's post showing he says "It's not an adaption of the books to me; it's an adaptation of the NEXT time these people are living this story."
And then lots of posts along the lines of the following in response:
44 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:He does not say that. F for reading comprehension.
What am I missing? Seems like he posted what was asked?
- Flamen and AusLeviathan
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4 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:
This idea that Logain covered his eyes, so that means he could see is silly.
Silly seems like a strong word in my opinion for this one, especially since I don't think a lot of the arguments along these lines hold water (for me.) Why can't a more reasonable explanation just be that he can't see the weaves, but Nynaeve cast Nynaeve's Super #Badass Brilliant Globe of Healing... It creates a brilliant globe of light that heals everyone within a certain radius. Kind of like the opposite of the swirling vortex of death Rand created in the stone that killed all the trollocs. Then Logain shields his eyes from that... To me it is a very difficult argument to make that he didn't see the brilliant light. I mean the scene is extremely visual (that's the medium of this telling!). Nynaeve's hair is even flying around in the air... Lots of visual stuff going on.
They clearly were so enamored of Logain shielding his eyes they showed him doing so at least three times. Here's a couple. Brilliant light, shadowing his face.
Are non book readers supposed to understand who can see what weaves, what they are seeing when weaves are shown on screen, etc.? I feel like I would be all sorts of confused with all these weaves flying around all the time and yet ordinary people aren't supposed to see them? I dunno, feel like that would be news to most.
There, now that I've tried to contribute something positive, I don't feel too guilty about saying I hate this whole change too for the reasons folks have stated previously. Just seems like yet another thing that reduces the comparative awesomeness of the DR (assuming it's still Rand.) What Nynaeve did here is just too cool/powerful at this stage of the story... When Rand starts to do things to showcase the power of the DR that are supposed to wow me I'm feeling like I'm going to have a meh reaction.
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Keep: Dumai's Wells (obviously), all of the aelfinn and eelfinn scenes, Noal and the Jain Farstrider reveal, Mat's rescue of Moiraine
Cut: That whole long, drawn out and entirely unnecessary subplot where Egwene leaves the Two Rivers, does some stuff, becomes the Amyrlin Seat somehow, and winds up participating in the Last Battle.
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1 hour ago, TheDreadReader said:
Yes. The pattern and/or tav'veren nature would prevent him from being gentled.
I think it would too... But would Moiraine know this? Know this to the point where she can say, well that guy obviously wasn't the dragon... She would have to in order for that to be the disqualifier that confirmed the man was not the dragon. And if she knows that, that means she knows the dragon has shielding provided by the pattern (we would say plot armor). And it's not too far a leap to then presume the pattern is going to do what the pattern is going to do with the dragon reborn (the wheel weaves as the wheel wills.) And then what is Moiraine even doing in bothering to find the dragon, she might as well be off relaxing somewhere enjoying some tea. I hope they have a better explanation than the gentling thing that doesn't open a philosophical can of worms... (including such issues as I said a while back, if the dragon reborn can be a female, then yes the tower should just go about gentling every male channeler, potential dragon or no, etc. That way you can get the pattern to spin you out that much more desired, not going mad female dragon.)
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3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:
No she didn’t. She said they don’t know where the DR is.
No, she actually says they don't know where the dragon was reborn. Well, these are the actual words anyway (not sure how to Aes Sedai speak around them):
"Now this man has been born again. We don't know where or to whom."
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1 minute ago, KingBeyondTheFirewall said:
This also makes me think why Moiraine was asking Nynaeve about where she was born?
Yes exactly. I'm wondering about that too. That's actually why I said I think the dragonmount thing is out (based on Moiraine's narration) but... Maybe there is still more to the story on this in the show.
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14 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:
Pretty sure she said they don’t know where. Which seems pretty damn problematic now that I think of it! ?
Right! That's why I'm so curious how she disqualified the guy at the beginning of the show!
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8 minutes ago, Starganderfish said:
May be an age thing? The guy looked too old to have been born on Dragonmount at the right time (assuming thats still a thing).
Thanks, that's probably it... I sort of assumed he was supposed to be in his 20s, and Moiraine was only busy tracking down people of approximately the right age, but you are probably right that he looked older and I didn't look carefully enough. I haven't re-watched yet...
I don't think the dragonmount birthplace is a thing in the show, but I could be wrong.
Eta: Wait, of course it's not the age thing after Lan specifically said he was the right age... Thanks MasterAblar! Guess the mystery remains.
How did the show hold up for you?
in Wheel of Time TV Show
Posted
I don't really think that particular argument holds water. Sure maybe 99% of screenwriters haven't read the books YET, but I think after they are brought on board it's not at all unreasonable to expect them to then read the source material. If I were running the show, I'd require it, but what do I know. I would think the showrunners would hire the best writers they could (period). Regardless of what they have or haven't read. But once working on a show that is supposed to be an adaptation, it sure makes a lot of sense to me that as a writer adapting that material you should at least read the source material. I imagine there is a difference between "lead" writers and those that are just working on fleshing out story boards or whatever, and maybe you could get by with only the leads reading the source material... I'd venture to say an adaptation like this one is what you get when your lead writers haven't read the source material. It shows.