5 minutes ago, Cellardur said:

I thought he was brilliant in the role and perfectly captured Bilbo.

 

However, the Hobbit and the LoTR trilogy show the difficulty of adaptation. Despite ludicrous things like the love trilogy the Hobbit trilogy is actually the one which is a lot more faithful and true to the books especially when it comes to characters, plot and themes. You can edit the Hobbit trilogy into an incredibly faithful film to the books no chance with the LoTR.

Right. I feel about the films as released much like the most show-hostile opinions in this thread, but there are at least two really solid fan edits: "The Tolkein Cut" and "The Bilbo Cut".

2 hours ago, JaimAybara said:

Are you seriously suggesting he is “ruining” Wheel of Time in a Rockefeller vs. Carnegie style tit for tat?…or is this a joke? I can’t tell.

Poe's Law strikes again. ?

11 hours ago, Ralph said:

It's all the hatewatching from some book readers ?

It's all part of Bezos' plot: systematically crushing reader's expectations again and again and again for that sweet hatewatching money. Alternatively, he knows that Musk is a big fan and he's willing to spend 100s of millions in a game of billionaire one-downs-manship.

My guess for the other female channelers defending the gap: Verin (who 'just happens' to be nearby doing research) and/or Liandrin (who wasn't that far behind them and caught up with Mat already, then followed through the Ways).

2 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

Yes, definitely agree on this. Rand and Moiraine need to be built up more before they do this imo, from his complete distrust of her on to leaning on her more and more. 

 

I do think they have left too many not-so-subtle hints that she may meet her end at the Eye for it to actually happen. 

Yeah I think what they're going for is to demonstrate the kind of recklessness that Moiraine is *capable* of, that she is willing to put her life on the line for the quest.

12 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

#1] My hot hot take ... probably wrong on this, mostly it's a guess because of how fast they increased Lan/Nyn's relationship.

I did start wondering about this. Done right it could surprise and delight book/non-book folk alike, all but the bookcloaks.

I think it's still too early though. It'll be most impactful if Rand/Selene and Rand/Moiraine are both built up first.

Best line of the episode: "If he's asking for patience, we're all going to die."

2 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

And doesn't look older than Josha. No problem at all. Just imagine how many "teens" in movies/tv are actually 25+ years old 

Yeah ages of actors/characters is just an area where you have to suspend disbelief.

3 minutes ago, TheMountain said:

 

Imagine having ALL the memories of a past life with degendered souls? That would be one sexually confused Dragon.

See also: Paul, Alia, and Leto 2 Atreides. But I think the 'gendered/degendered' part of that is much less a contributor than merely having the awakened memories at all.

5 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

People regularly do Masters Theses of this kind of analysis. Sherlock Holmes is a frequent target for it, as are the classic monsters - Frank, Drac, Wolfie, The Invisible Man - ones that get remade generationally. They normally tie it in with the socio-cultural climate of the time and how the current environment drives emphasis on certain aspects of the story, while minimizing others (cough, Green Warder behaviour, cough). It's great for all the traditional social sciences (psych, soc, anthro, poli sci), and okay for the more modern TV watching degrees

 

It's a good way to look at culture, since the object being observed (the original story) is constant, and what changes is the people interpreting it, and the audience they are interpreting it for.  And even psychology, since what people end up emphasizing reveals a great deal about how they think as individuals.

 

 

Also good targets: Shakespeare and Beowulf.

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Jurassic Park is a pretty loose adaptation of the books.

Yeah, *super* loose and just as good or arguably better than the source material.

IMO, the best adaptations take this approach. Another example is Blade Runner. A counter-example is Watchmen, which tried for high-fidelity to the source (right down to filmed shots that are basically a perfect replication of a pane in the novel) and came out pretty miserable for it relative to the source material.

Another spin on this general topic of adaptations are "unfilmable" novels/stories. Of course WoT itself was once thought to be in that category before the era of large prestige TV budgets, but I always thought (and still think) that Ender's Game was a good example since so much of the novel is interior to Ender's mind. Asimov's "The Gods Themselves" might fall into this category for different reasons.

33 minutes ago, DermidAjala said:

That Aiel better be wielding two short spears and not swords!!!

Looks like a spearhead to me!

1 minute ago, Agitel said:

do we even learn that Ba'alzamon isn't the Dark One until the end of TDR? And even then some people miss that

IIRC it's alluded/implied as early as TGH but not confirmed until TDR.

18 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

The dark one lives at the eye of the world now??????

It feels pretty clear that they're just flat out wrong about this. The show is playing up the reality-from-the-books that the Aes Sedai don't know as much as they think they know.

"Lol let's send these five and see what happens" is pretty comparable as a 'plan' as Moiraine's plan in the books. That is: neither is a particularly good plan and in both cases they are sorta just falling into obvious traps. But again, book-Moiraine never imagined the world-changing reality of the DR.

Mat staying behind was a bit of a shock to me.

Moiraine's wording of the oath notably differed from Siuan's: while Siuan said "obey the judgement of the AS", Moiraine said "obey the judgement of Siuan Sanche". ?

Maigan: "ships disappearing in the west"

Me: "reeeeeee"

Peeking at the IMDb cast list, I think the cold open will be focused on Siuan as a girl, possibly the trauma of realizing she can channel in Tear of all places. We'll see the steel of the Amrylin-to-be. Possibly we'll see her arrive at the tower as a novice and meet Moiraine, but I think they'll hold back the revelation that they are old friends until after the Hall, as in the books.

I like the idea of them chasing Fain through the Ways rather than the other way around, but I don't see a strong reason for him to risk getting captured just for the dagger.

If we're right that Fain is heavily involved at the end of episode, I also think Ep7 cold open is a perfect time to focus on his background/SL visit.

6 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

The way that book Perrin focuses on Faile's eyes and nose, but doesn't talk/think about her hair very much, along with these notes here, has suddenly made me think that Faile might end up wearing a hajib, like this, and I am not hating the image.

Faile being Faile, she'll probably largely reject wearing it, ala rejecting 'the language of fans'.

9 hours ago, The Purple Ajah said:

According to the bonus content from episode 5, the western coast of the continent will be closer to these aesthetics.

I was about to paste together a culture map from this bonus content, but I can see you beat me to it! I'm *really* encouraged on watching that, as it grounds the reality that they've thought through this stuff in depth and are planning for the long run. Was considering launching another thread that doesn't focus as weirdly on one particular unnamed Aes Sedai though. "Cultures of the Westlands" or something

23 hours ago, RextheDog said:

to me the biggest test the show will face is Dumai Wells.

 

done correctly, it could be the greatest moment in high fantasy TV

 

done incorrectly......*****shudders*****...

Given that Rafe is on record as this sequence being the thing he's most excited about adapting, they'll certainly try their hardest.

Praise for Henney's performance in 105: https://tvline.com/2021/12/04/daniel-henney-performance-the-wheel-of-time-episode-5-lan/#respond

21 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

A few things she can do: Channel at a high level. Not be a energy source to be fed on. Become the Amrylin. *winks*

Don't get me wrong, Cadsuane is a terrific character, but I think we all know they're going to cut some characters we love. This just looks like a good opportunity to me.

IMO the most *important* function of Cadsuane is not as a high level channeler, but as someone who through the strength of her actions commanded respect from all others. Even a power-diminished Moiraine can fill that role and have real credibility with Rand, assuming they follow a similar relationship pre-docks.

4 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I'm glad folks are genuinely enjoying the show.  Guess I'll have to go back to adaptations I like: Dune 2021, Ender's Game, LotR, Hobbit, etc.  ?

It's funny how much different individuals diverge. My relation to WoTPrime is so far "enjoyed a somewhat bumpy first season, excited for the future", while I thought Jackson's Hobbit movies were so bad that they actually made me enjoy the excellent LotR movies less.

And had I been involved in a forum at the time, I would have been as hyperbolic against Ender as the most passionate people here are about WoTPrime. ?

It's legitimate to check-out early, I might be inclined to do so if I felt the way some do, although even subverted nostalgia has a way of dragging you back in.

4 hours ago, Skipp said:

Ep4 10.0

Come now, you have to give the season room to grow? I agree that 4 was the strongest to date, but I expect 6 and 8 will end up better. Unless your scale "goes to 11"?

6 minutes ago, Sabio said:

They are basicly replacing Perin having a feud with Bornhold and Byar with Valda.  Valda should actually be angry at Egwene since she stabbed him.  Which sort of leads back to it would of made more sense to have Perin attack Valda and not Egwene.

Yep! I think Valda will primarily blame Perrin though, as it was "goldeneyes" that clearly shocked him (he expected Egwene to be able to channel!) and the wolves that let them actually get away and killed so many of the Children.

I guess it shows how much people cared about Bornhold/Byar that no one is really complaining about their being rolled into Valda. ?

re: why he was so convinced that Egwene was a channeler, I think he correctly surmised when we met them before that Moiraine/Lan were Aes Sedai and Warder -- from there the most likely conclusion given the aging-up of the characters and the lack of "ageless faces" was that Egwene and Nynaeve were Aes Sedai too, with Mat/Rand/Perrin their warders.

With Egwene's outright rejection of being Aes Sedai, he figured she must instead be a novice/accepted and relaxed his guard somewhat. And I assume he was just outside the tent eavesdropping the entire time he 'left them alone'.

21 minutes ago, Masha said:

Combine Caemlyn with Cairhien especially since Caemlyn was already moved to 2nd season.

Remove half of city states or combine them. Caemlyn with Cairhien, Tear with Illian, Ebou Dar with Falme and Tarabon.

I don't like it (I'm a big fan of the diversity of cultures/cities), but I guess I could accept it.

22 minutes ago, Masha said:

Combine Liandrin character with Elaida's or Alviarin. She is great but book Liandrin story is pretty much over after 3 books.

I'd have a hard time accepting this, strictly because IMO it's important to show that opposition to Rand/the Light is multi-faceted. Liandrin is a DF, Elaida is power-hungry. Still, this could be made to work for me if Liandrin is in fact not a DF, and someone else serves as the revealer to the viewer of the BA instead.

I suspect largely uncontroversial cuts are:

 * the Shaido, especially as an extended storyline beyond Dumai's Wells -- this is one of the RJ arcs that lingers and lingers and never accomplishes much. Keep the bleakness as a largely off-camera problem for the Aiel but not the organized clan. Luckily this would be also cutting Faile's kidnapping

Likely *very* controversially:

 * Cadsuane entirely! Is there really anything that Cadsuane does that rescued-Moiraine can't do, storywise? All that would really seem to be necessary is to move up her rescue drastically, so that she can come back in time to help guide Rand back towards balance. This has the secondary and happy effect that the show can maybe keep their biggest star largely present, with her 'death' happening at the end of season 3/4 and her rescue at the end of season 4/5.

For Siuan, I assume they're holding back her entrance until they can do it with grand spectacle. We'll see her first distant and in all her glory in the hall, then later angry/harsh in private with Moiraine.

I cheered when Rand randomly picked out the Karaethon Cycle; did non-readers catch the implications?

This was a downer episode, probably one where they saw opportunity to save budget for other episodes. Lots of worldbuilding that will eventually pay off.

The Stepin arc was emotional and will play well with non-reader audiences, but yeah. I won't belabor the point many others have made about "wasted time".

Two major things I dislike, one in comparison to the books and one-not:

1. The implication that Liandrin/Elaida may be combined. IMO the major differences in why these characters are "evil" are super-important to the story.

2. Moiraine's "eyes and ears" are kinda of terrible, huh? She swears they'll let her know as soon as any of the others arrives, but it's *Loial* who apparently randomly partially re-unites the party. I found the latter a little clunky but I'm more annoyed by the apparent incompetence of her network.