9 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Angry hardcore book fans have just review bombed it worse than any other episode. It is obviously neither 10/10 nor 1/10

 

Angry book fans are angry for a reason. It's  not review bombing, its truth. Id give episode 8 a 2/10, 3/10 if I was in a really good mood.

The show has been butchered, im done. Judkins should be fired, and Harriet never should have allowed this to happen. It's incredibly saddening.

Just now, SinisterDeath said:

It's really not hard to follow any of this, or even to check out the IMDB page from time to time.
 

So, you don't have time to check out an IMDB page, but have enough time to nit pick about an actors hair color that mostly matches the character description?
https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Elayne_Trakand

 

You're still not convincing me you're not trollin.

 

So don't reply to me then. 

Reddish golden is strawberry blonde. It means theres a reddish tint to her golden hair, not that she's a ginger. 

Wait, so Elayne is a redhead?

Like, we just heard loial tell rand he must be aiel because of his hair, but now Elayne is is a redhead?

Its nit a huge deal, but be consistent.

She's certainly the best cast character, along with lan.

14 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Don't pay much attention to casting announcements, or just trollin'?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7462410/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm7969428/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t73
 

I don't pay attention to casting announcements at all. Im a partner in a law firm, keeping up with Judkins isn't a priority.

And again, we should have met her already.

We should have met her by now. Has Judkins or anyone else mentioned it?

Did they cut her? Because if so, im done with the show.

So many problems that are driving me crazy right now, but this is a major one. I've wanted a WoT series forever, but its starting to seem like a major disappointment for me.

Have they just cut Elaine from the story?

Every episode that passes is getting worse than the last.

1 hour ago, Jaysen Gore said:

My take on this discussion:

80 million books sold divided by 15 books works out to about 5.3 million / book.  Probably higher for the first 3, and lower for the last 3, and maybe 250,000 library copies. So call it 5 million people bought the series. And if you don't own the series, I can't call you a fan. If you spent $150 on a book series you're a fan;  $500 for hardcovers and you're a serious fan. And my assumption is if you're a fan, you're going to at least check out the series if you can.  A better measure for fandom would be sales of A Memory of Light, but I can't find that.

 

Next, we come to the viewership, which isn't public information. 

- Approximately 350 million Amazon Prime subscribers, with 150 million in the US (99 stats). This is great, because the global numbers are comparable to the full US population. 

- the most watched non-sports broadcast show in 2021 in the US was NCIS at about 12 million (Nielson). If WoT was beating this, they'd be screaming it from the mountain tops.  So it's not as high as 12 million

- Screenrants claims "tens of millions of views" in the first 3 days of the series. So take 30 million divide it by 3 episodes, and you get 10 million per episode as an upper number. 

 

BUT...Let's say 10% of book fans watch the episodes twice on average, and another 60% watch it once, with the last 30% not having Prime. That's 10% x 2 x 5 million + 60% x 1 x 5 million = 1 million + 3 million = 4 million total views from book readers. 

 

The final calculation = 4 million views from book readers / 10 million total views

= 40% of the audience are existing book fans. 

 

This assumes that non-book readers aren't doing multiple viewings in material numbers, and that Prime has a higher penetration rate with WoT readers than the general public due to demographics. And while it's possible both the numerator and denominator in the above calculations can move up or down due to assumptions, I think they would mostly move in the same direction leaving the percentage of the audience roughly the same. It's definitely more than a third, and definitely less than a half, though.

 

So what does this mean? Basically, as long as the series doesn't piss off the book readers enough that they stop watching, that will give Amazon a solid foundation to grow from, with a lot of potential upside. But for now, they're way more dependent on the readers than you'd think.

 

You're literally just making up numbers and claiming the math works. It doesn't work like 0that.

Also, stats for other series show that you're wrong. That 90m is front heavy. There are millions upon millions more copies of EotW than there is any other book in the series. I worked for a book publisher throughout both university and law school, I know how this goes. For every Memory of Light sold, Eye of the World has likely sold 20. And that's completely normal.

We're likely to see a big increase in sales again now with the show. 

On 11/20/2021 at 12:09 AM, jeffreycwagner said:

I know I yielded earlier, but one other nugget - GoT viewers were split right at 50/50 between those who read the books and those that did not, so, does my wild guess at 50% still seem ridiculous? ? 

 

PS: thanks for making this my topic and getting it out of the show review section ?

No, this is not true or even close. 50% might have read them AFTER GoT became the big thing, but yes, your 50% is still absolutely ridiculous. GoT was only popular in fantasy circles before the show started.

3 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

What happened in the novels with regards to the reincarnation of the Dragon is irrelevant with regards to the TV series because, as I noted, the show has eliminated the idea of souls being gender-locked.

 

In both an AMA that he did on Reddit and in an interview with io9, Rafe specifically talks about the show's approach to reincarnation, not just of regular souls, but of the Dragon's soul:

 

 

 

Which is just part if the reason Rafe should never have been given control, or why Harriet should have negotiated veto power of his ridiculous changes. If I was her, I'd be furious.

On 11/19/2021 at 4:18 PM, AdamA said:

You can't directly compare book sales to show viewership. Books can be shared, but I would guess most readers have their own copy. On the other hand, Amazon and Netflix can only capture streams per account, but plenty if not most rooms being streamed to are going to be families or at least couples, not people watching alone. Number of unique viewers is going to far exceed number of unique accounts, but the published viewership can only be unique accounts.

 

Whether or not book readers end up constituting a majority or large percentage of show viewers, I definitely don't think that's what Amazon or the showrunners want. They're trying to reach a new audience. There are demographic differences, too. Television tries to favor the 18-24 demographic. I'm guessing the Wheel of Time readership skews older than that, with most having at least hit middle school before the 90s were over.

Actually it's 18-45. Thats the magic tv demo. But that doesn't matter because Amazon isn't selling ads on their programs.

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

yes, it seems pretty "right now" to me too, and even to moiraine and siuan.

but can you absolutely rule out every alternative?

 

it is wise to have doubt. only the fools never doubt what they know

No. There is absolutely no ambiguity in the books. The Dragon is, and can only be, male. Because og the taint, he will either break the world, or bind it.

At no point did Jordan say that the Dragon could come from Saidar. Its directly tied to men who channel, and was in every turning. This is very, very clear to all of the educated characters in the books.

2 hours ago, Jason_bwood said:

on the subject of "gender locking" of souls I remember that one of the foresaken is a woman in the books but had been a man previously so it is not outside the possible

That wasn't reincarnation though, it was punishment.

1 minute ago, DaddyFinn said:

You better get used to it. ? Josha has a small pimple next to his nostrils. It's quite visible on one scene

Its not like Egwene's mole tho. But yeah, its not her fault, but I can't help but look.

Also, I know this is really shallow, but the mole on Egwene's nose is extremely distracting on screen. I totally get it's not the actresses fault, and I actually think she's an excellent actress, but it just immediately draws my attention, every scene she's in.

1 hour ago, Rand the Plumber said:

 

I'm a barrister.  I started in general criminal law, but quickly discovered an aptitude for fraud, where I have worked quite contentedly for the last almost 20 years - although I'm certainly not the brightest or the tallest bloom in this particular field (cf Maester Pycelle).  I say I don't do criminal law, but there is a criminal element to fraud and I do practise in that area - it's just that people generally think of fraud in terms of the civil law.

 

 

I wouldn't say Josha was my favourite, but he certainly was very good!  I don't think there was one objectively bad performance in episode one, and it's probably a bit too early to identify my favourite actor.  However, I've always had a soft spot for Rosamund Pike, so I think she is currently at the top of my list.  And, of course, there is Daniel Henney's understated performance, and his... fine... ass-ets.

 

I'll get me coat.

I really had a problem with Mat. Both character and actor.

29 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Foreshadowing an accident to make it hurt just a little bit more

No, foreshadowing doesn't work like that. Story writing doesn't work like that.  You don't focus on anything in a shot that has no meaning.  If you directly focus on it, that indicates deeper meaning. Those shots are directly framed as important.

Just like in books, techniques are used to tell a deeper story than the obvious one portrayed on paper.  Theres a whole secondary language to film making people need to understand if they want to see the things hidden in plain sight in your shows and films.

Nothing about that scene otherwise would make me hurt, because I don't know or care about Laila. In fact I expected her death the second I knew she was Perrin's wife.

4 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

Dude - they have butchered Lan's character.

There is no getting away from it.  He got snuck up on by Nynaeve whilst he was distracted - give me a break.  That's the antithesis of what Lan is (at least at this stage of the story).

He's more like an Aes Sedai lackey - and not a very smart one - than a Warder in this new turning of the wheel.

 

I mean, if thats what Lans character is to you, then you clearly only read the books in the most surface of ways. Lans stoicism and martial skill are secondary to who he really is.

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

Agreed. There's something going on there. My working theory:

• Perrin/Laila was a 'shotgun wedding' - forced by Laila getting pregnant.
• Perrin will blame a 'loss of control' for getting Laila pregnant.
• Laila was in love with someone else and turned to the Dark because she was promised an exit from the relationship.

I haven't seen E3 yet - so please no replies that contradict my theory based on stuff that happens in that episode.

 

No worries, enjoy episode 3, I thought it was great.

5 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

I was curious to see if there'd be any buzz and if you google "Who is the Dragon Reborn" the answer appears immediately ha, so I hope the show doesn't try to drag it out much longer and leans more in to Rand struggling with the possibility.

I mean, people avoided GoT spoilers for years, almost to the point of absurdity in some cases. You did a search. People who don't want the suprise ruined aren't going to google it.

3 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Feels a bit far-fetched but I won't dismiss anything until if we get to know the truth. I just think he killed her by accident and didn't want her death.

No, film doesn't work like that. You can't foreshadow with a hand on the stomach and say him putting an axe in her stomach next aren't connected. It's clear foreshadowing, we just don't have the full context yet. 

1 minute ago, Beidomon said:

I don’t mind that at all. Or even playing up the mystery. But changing the lore so the DR can be a man or woman, and resulting ripples from that - I’ve got a problem with. So now I’m just gonna make jokes about the mystery. Because even most non-fans have already got this figured out, or will pretty soon due to the internet. Even if they try to avoid spoilers. 
 

(Srsly tho, Rand is great. Wasn’t joking about that.)

They never  changed the lore. Moraine said they didn't know if it was a boy or girl. Who tf cares? It's a sentence made to keep new audiences in suspense. We all obviously know its Rand, so it's obviously a man. I agree its a dumb comment, but it literally has no effect on the show.

Look we are getting a simplified wheel of time. Anything else is unfeasible. The story needs to be cut and combined, or it will never finish.

Just now, Beidomon said:

Rand is basically perfect at this point. I’m really rooting for him to be the DR. All this mystery is killing me!

Some of you guys really seem to dislike that this wasn't made specifically for Hardcore fans. More who watch this will not know who Rand is than vice versa. 

6 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Do you mean that Perrin or the writers did that on purpose because of tragic value?

I mean that the events are obviously connected. Either he thinks he killed his wife and unborn child, or he believes that maybe he did it subconsciously because deep down he resented her losing his child. Im guessing its the latter.

Just now, Arthellion said:

Mat was the only flop for me.

 

Lan left me a little underwhelmed but not terrible. 

I like Lan a lot actually. He's very much how I imagined him. I also love how fiery Nynaeve is. And I think Pike is an incredible actress, who does a great job, but honestly she looks too old for the beautiful  nearly perfect, short, blue dressed witch of my imagination. But thats my own bias  so I try not to judge her on it. My Moraine was always closer to a Lauren Cohan or Vanessa Hudgens.