This is what I mean about semantics and distinctions. You're reading way too much into Semirhage's usage of the word 'real'.

 

I'm not actually 'reading' anything into it. I'm literally just saying... Lady of Pain said the voice was real.

 

Yes, but you said that her statement means that the voice was not just a taint-induced delusion. That's reading something into it, obviously. I choose to interpret her statement as referring to the fact that the memories are real, because otherwise it makes no sense. She also said he was only hearing the voice because he is insane, which contradicts the assertion that the voice is 'real' in the realer sense.

the voice knew things. I think it was more than a delusion.

Question: I'm rereading book one - the first time Min speaks to Rand alone he asks her whats she sees around them. When she talks about Matt she mentions the red eagle - I'm assuming that's for Manetheren. I'm wondering if that was a mistake and was meant for Perrin or if Mr. Jordan originally thought Matt would become the leader of the Two Rivers. Anybody know?

 

I always took it for another hint that Mat could be Aemon reborn.

You could be right. I'd love to get my hands on RJ's notes. I'm willing to bet that not everything was set in stone and he changed certain things as he went along. there's really very little said about Perrin by Min that first time - she saw a wolf and one other thing which is eluding me right now. That's it.

 

A wolf, and a broken crown, and trees flowering all around him.

 

Then, later in tDR, about Perrin she adds..."An Aielman in a cage. A Tuatha'an with a sword. A falcon and a hawk, perching on your shoulders. Both female, I think."

Right. I wonder what the trees are.

Question: I'm rereading book one - the first time Min speaks to Rand alone he asks her whats she sees around them. When she talks about Matt she mentions the red eagle - I'm assuming that's for Manetheren. I'm wondering if that was a mistake and was meant for Perrin or if Mr. Jordan originally thought Matt would become the leader of the Two Rivers. Anybody know?

 

I always took it for another hint that Mat could be Aemon reborn.

You could be right. I'd love to get my hands on RJ's notes. I'm willing to bet that not everything was set in stone and he changed certain things as he went along. there's really very little said about Perrin by Min that first time - she saw a wolf and one other thing which is eluding me right now. That's it.

Question: I'm rereading book one - the first time Min speaks to Rand alone he asks her whats she sees around them. When she talks about Matt she mentions the red eagle - I'm assuming that's for Manetheren. I'm wondering if that was a mistake and was meant for Perrin or if Mr. Jordan originally thought Matt would become the leader of the Two Rivers. Anybody know?

A lot of the Aes Sedai annoy me because of the way they try to control Rand. Moraine is one of the few main Aes Sedai characters that I just plain like. Nynaeve, too (she annoyed me at first but she's grown into a great character, imo). Egwene went the other way for me. I felt neither way, really - then liked her - now I just get annoyed a lot when I read her chapters. Personally, if she tried being Rand's friend, and not somebody who thinks he should bend knee, I'd probably like her more. I don't feel that she's his enemy but she doesn't seem like much of an ally either. Nynaeve I feel is one of his best friends in the whole book. She, Min, Aviendha and Thom Merrilon - Lan and Morraine, too - are probably the main characters who have his back the most. I feel for the dude. Even with a broken white tower, Egwene is a very powerful person at this point but she's a selfish pain in the butt.

It doesn't really matter as we know that all men who use saidar since the breaking go insane. Rand would have gone insane even without LTT's insane personality inhabiting his own mental space.

Ah! You're right about that. I'm just rereading for the first time in a long time. Sorry.

As for ignoring a voice, if I talked to you night and day you wouldn't just ignore me and I'm not in your body. You can't just "ignore" certain things.

This is silly.

Wrong, h

Cleary I do.

 

I said not everyone has the ability to overcome their illness mentally, however it can be overcame. Normally I'd tell you to point out one mental illness where no one was able to overcome it, just one, but that would accomplish nothing. However would like you to point out where I was wrong in those statements above.

 

Your attitude. You present that hearing a voice is 'merely' hearing a voice. That because it is not physical it is in some way less. That is not only wrong and ignorent. It's offensive.

 

Is the voice physical?

 

No. The inference of this question, that it not being physical makes it somehow less damaging is offensive.

 

Can it do physical harm?

 

No. The inference of this question, that it not being physical makes it somehow less damaging is offensive.

 

Am I wrong in my comparrison to a voice outside your head, i.e. the people who commit mass murder because someone else hounded them until they did it.

 

Yes, you are.

 

Are you implying OCD cannot be overcame without the aid of drugs? (This one I know for a lie, because I deal with it myself, same with depression).

 

No.

 

(1-3) Less damaging is an interesting term. I cannot refute that, because the way you state it, I suppose I do believe it is less damaging, like I personally consider physical abuse to be more damaging than mental abuse, since the later cannot affect you if you don't let it, as opposed to the former. Now, they both have the same severity, hell mental abuse might be worse, but in the context used, you would be correct.

 

That doesn't make it offensive.

 

4) How so? Do you have to listen to the voice? (Not sure how intimately familiar you are with this here, but again there are no absolutes). It CAN be ignored. Can everyone do it? That's a subject of debate in itself. Does everyone have the capaticy to do it, but not the ability? That's probably closer to the truth. To use a base comparison, some people are more suspectible to suggestion, what makes them that way? Why do some people join cults and kill themselves or others and some dont?

 

5) So then why quote it if you're not implying it's wrong?

 

Schizophrenia is not curable, you can only treat it. Moreover, we're not talking about mental illness, we're talking about a personality that once lived and shares the mind and body of another person who does live. I think even a very strong minded person would be freaked out, to say the least.

 

Freaked out yes, go insane, I doubt it would occur everytime. It would go along the lines of depression and OCD everyone is different and reacts differently. Bi-polarizsm as well. It's not always about the degree to which a person suffers from it either, it's about the person and their will (for lack of a better word).

 

As Lucker's said, it's not merely another voice, LTT was able to take possession of Rand's body.

 

And, you're wrong, many mental illnesses cannot be cured, although many can be treated.

 

Channeling ability not body. Subtle difference here. (Which makes all the difference)

Wrong, he tried to choke Min, didn't he? That was Rand's hands doing the choking.

As Lucker's said, it's not merely another voice, LTT was able to take possession of Rand's body.

And, you're wrong, many mental illnesses cannot be cured, although many can be treated.

Schizophrenia is not curable, you can only treat it. Moreover, we're not talking about mental illness, we're talking about a personality that once lived and shares the mind and body of another person who does live. I think even a very strong minded person would be freaked out, to say the least.