hey, why not? I recall somebody posting a theory recently that Demandred is posing as a woman. And Arnie in Junior is a literary character parallel.

I really think we should tell BS that we finally cracked Demandred's identity.

Now wonder he's so testy. He's carrying twins!!!

In Demandred's first PoV, he reaches Shayol Ghul wearing a fur-lined cloak at a time when all of Randland is suffering from an extended summer. Demandred has mastered the trick of ignoring the effect of the heat and cold. He isn't affected by the cold outside the Pit of Doom or the heat inside. So, the cloak seems to be part of his disguise. The question is: Where has this been discussed earlier? Thanks!

That's an interesting point. I had a thread a while back discussing Demandred's clothing as a possible clue to his location but his clothing in this particular POV was not discussed there. I can't really think of any place in Randlands he'd need a fur-lined cloak at that time. It could have been a fashion statement as he was apparently prone to those. The only other fur cloaks mentioned around that time are those worn by the Seanchan that Avi and Rand encounter on the other side of her gateway.

 

Lastly, I think the only person other than Demandred ever described as wearing a velvet fur-lined cloak is Elayne (tEoTW, ch 40).

Oh my God.... Demandred is having Rand's children!!!!!

You know that RJ had a sequel planned, and we just found out how.

Do you mean could a channeler show another channeler the weave for something like healing or fireballs or a gateway? Sure, they do it all the time.

 

That is not what I was thinking about off course they can show another channeler of the same sex a weave just by weaving it. I was thinking could they draw them on paper, or describe them in in writing like, two strands of Fire, one of Earth, join by two hoops on the lowest Fire strand and a curl of on the one of Earth and so on, basically could they write it up and draw it and put it in a book or a letter?

 

as for the weaves I think that you have it right. But I am more curious about making coloured air to show channellers of the opposite sex the weaves, what would happen if that happened? Would it be learnable, or a good way to destroy some channellers attempting it

 

The weaves that men and women weaves are different. If you can draw them or describe them, or make colored illusions of air, in some way it is possible that someone of another gender would see that they are weaves and possibly get what element is which but I do not think it would make much sense to them past that and if they tried to cast a weave of the opposite sex I think the weave would either just fall apart and not form anything or go horribly, horribly wrong quite possibly blowing up.

 

Rats and Crows can communicate as well, so that doesnt necessarily mean much.

 

I agree, what I was wondering about was if they could talk, with words not if they had some form of communication which they obviously do.

AH! Good question. I have no idea. Even if that were a possibility - and why wouldn't it be - I'm guessing they'd have to be a decent artist and somewhat meticulous to draw some of the weaves in a way that others could understand and would be to scale - and wouldn't cause them to weave something dangerous for the weaver, etc.

I have a couple of questions that have come up when me and my RPG gaming group have been playing in the WoT setting.

 

Can a channeler draw a representation of a weave that it is possible for another channeler to understand? Both the illustrations in the comic books and the way the weaves are described at least to me indicate that this would be possible, though it would probably be very inadequate representations could a channeler learn a weave from a description or illustration of one instead of seeing the weave his or her self?

 

Could a severing weave miss and hit someone else? Okey the way Rand did it with those three Aes Sedai who held his shield that was rather directed to them, but normally when just a sharp shield is made, if two channelers is standing right next to one another and you are trying to sever one of them could you miss and hit the other one, or in other words is it dangerous to get to close to someone being severed?

 

Can Draghkar talk, we know they can sing, or rather hum, but can they speak normally? I know they are not that intelligent, but originally they where humans made into Shadowspawn so I was wondering if they also could be used to for example fly to a certain place and deliver a message and not just be used as assassins.

Do you mean could a channeler show another channeler the weave for something like healing or fireballs or a gateway? Sure, they do it all the time.

Sure, and on screen have barely spoken. How about Elayne and Rand and Gawyn and Egwene? Was their much love development in their burgeoning love? Most of Egwene and Gawyn's are in her mind and dreams, not in real life.

In every case except Elayne and Rand's the lion share of their exchanges is simply not on screen. That, I'll grant you, was textbook love at first sight.

 

does Tuon know that Mat actually remembers Hawking's face?

Yes she does, it was an obvious cover up on his part and she picked up on it.

She even remarks on that (KoD: Under an Oak, IIRC).

I was actually going to say Gawyn and Egwene, too. But, that's not correct, she was into Galad first. But, there's no development that isn't internal develpment. You're right, it's not love at first sight, it isn't developed much either, though. Lan's and Nynaeve's was obvious from the moment she tracked them, too.

does Tuon know that Mat actually remembers Hawking's face?

 

Yes she does, it was an obvious cover up on his part and she picked up on it.

Yeah, when she says the three Mat's my husbands, she mentions that she was given a foretelling and that she knew Mat remembered his face.

I think as a reader what we need to do in these books is just realize that love at first sight reigns in WoT.

Not to rain on your parade, but they've traveled together for several weeks. How long does it take you to fall in love? Me, usually much less than that (not that we're talking about a large sample, but still).

Sure, and on screen have barely spoken. How about Elayne and Rand and Gawyn and Egwene? Was their much love development in their burgeoning love? Most of Egwene and Gawyn's are in her mind and dreams, not in real life.

My list of clues:

1. Moiraine insists that Thom isn't dead, although she cannot possibly be sure of that. This happens in TEoTW and then again in TGH. The importance isn't known until TSR (clue 3).

2. Thom apparently thinks well of her, as we learn in Cairhien (TGH).

3. Moiraine let it slip that she knows who she's going to marry in the Stone (TSR). She tells Thom that she knows they'll meet again. This hints at a Viewing of Min's, likely made in Baerlon (linking back to clue 1).

4. Thom and Moiraine share more affectionate thoughts in their meeting in the Stone (TSR).

5. The way Thom reacts when Mat delivers the letter, commenting on the women in his life (LoC? ACoS?).

6. The wording of the letter, and the fact that it doesn't mention the Reds whose names Moiraine promised to reveal to Thom. The readers, I think, had to assume that this is what the letter was about, even though Moiraine did say she'll tell him about it the next time they meet.

 

I didn't catch that thing about making her laugh. It's actually a very astute observation, Sid. Has it been verified?

I see what you're saying. I think as a reader what we need to do in these books is just realize that love at first sight reigns in WoT.

There are a few hints you can catch on a second read. Moraine says something slightly suggestive when Rand tells her Thom died in tEotW. I don't remmeber the exact quote, but I know I've noted it when re-reading. Also, when Rand finds Thom in Cairhien (TGH), Thom makes a favorable comment about Moraine, despite her being Aes Sedai. Again, I don't remember the exact quote. Then there is the scene in book four when Moraine goes to Thom's room and asks him to stop playing the Great Game on Rand's behalf (Thom is trying to entrench Rand in Tear, where Moraine wants him to march out into the world). She heals him and there is some minor flirting in the form of mutual respect and admiration. There may be comments made later than this, but I haven't read the middle books in a while. I am 3/4 through TGH right now, on a re-read.

Yeah, when she goes into his room - he has the ink bottles out, right? or a writing set or something like that - I remember that. Just doesn't seem like a lot. But, many of the love interests have little interaction before becoming smitten. Nynaeve and Lan are love at first sight, Elayne and Rand don't take much, Avi falls for him quickly too... the one I get the least is Mat and Tuon. I like the story, actually, it's just a leap of faith to get into the headset that they're both fine with it... Well, it's more a leap of faith believing he is. She's so into signs and portents, I can believe it.

I have a question.

 

When was it first clear that Thom and Morain were to be a couple?

 

I didn't caught it until I read the letter for thom from Morain, and it kinda caught me by surprise.

I knew that Morain had someone that she loved, but I didn't know it was Thom...

It is not clear at all until the letter. They travel together and get split up at Shadar Logoth. Thom saves the boys from the Myrdraal. We meet him next in Cairhien, when Rand arrives there hunting the horn. Mat meets him on his way to Tear in book 3 in Tar Valon. Then, Moiraine goes to the 3 Fold Land while Thom goes to watch the BA hunters. Aside from the letter (which she gives him in Tear), that's all the connection they have on screen.

I'm curious if BS has mentioned at all how much time aMoL actually covers. I just saw on another site someone say it only covers 2 days, which may possibly be the most ignorant thing I've seen, but I do wonder if he has said anything about it. Thanks in advance.

How is that possible? Between the time Perrin agrees to the trial and the trial is over three days.

Have there been any significant threads on Narishma? He seems like a wild card to me, I'm wondering if there has been extensive discussion regarding him.

Hey Toots, look up Narasimha and Vishnu. I have some ideas about Narshima.

I don't know if there's a thread on this. Didn't see one in the search so grabbed the first Alanna thread I saw:

Is it possible Alanna disappeared from the Stone of Tear by a saidin woven (weaved?) gateway? How many people think she's a DF? Thanks.

No, I do not believe there is an example of a man healing another man, you're right.

Wouldn't the conduit have to be of the power? If the power can remake it, that leads me to think that the power is what makes it. Maybe males are made of saidar and females saidin?

That's the way I pictured it too. As if the 'filament' the power runs across into each channeler is made of the opposite side of the OP that they wield. Which would makes sense - think of how Rand cleansed saidin.

But, who knows? It just struck me that there has been a way for males to see females and females to see male channelers.

Now as for damane, I may be mistaken here but in most of WoT combining artifacts are not a good idea that tend to have negative effects of the explosive variety so I do not think that daisy chaining damane together would lead to anything but allot of dead or at least bayly wounded damane or some other similar unfortunate outcome. We also never see a sul'dam with two damane as far as I know, I may be mistaken here again but I think that if it was possible it would happen in the books at some point.

 

I think it might be in Knife of Dreams, not sure or maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but doesn't Tuon leash both Teslyn and Joline, one on each arm?

 

 

Off topic from the current discussion but, how much time passes within each book? Some books, like ACoS, are easier to tell while others, at least to me are sometimes more vague.

I think they're all different - timelines. I also think the time that passes between each book is different. I know the DR starts around 3 months after the book before.

You're right about Tuon and, I believe, the book in which she does that.

She uses a lot of time to find the exact spot where the point of reconnection should be but the actual connection (someone whose line to saidar/saidin is not cut) should be even easier to spot. If there's some place to look to see the connection and the connection shows up differently for the male and female halfs, someone who can see should be able to tell if a person can channel and which half of the power they can channel.

 

Yes maybe and like I said it might be that no one have ever thought about looking like that before. But it can also be that a whole connection can not be felt. Think of it this way if you run your fingers over a polished stone the thing that will really stand out is a nick in that stone. It may be that a cut connection give enough of a rough edge to be felt while a whole one is to smooth, I am not saying it is so but it could be.

 

You just left out a portion before that, where Lanfear says "Pain, Lews Therm." No, that wasn't part of the Shielding. She used another weave on him.

 

Yeah you are probably right about that.

That's a good point - the nick vs whole stone.

She uses a lot of time to find the exact spot where the point of reconnection should be but the actual connection (someone whose line to saidar/saidin is not cut) should be even easier to spot. If there's some place to look to see the connection and the connection shows up differently for the male and female halfs, someone who can see should be able to tell if a person can channel and which half of the power they can channel.

For one, they'd have to have Nynaeve's facility with Healing. For another, they'd probably need to lay their hands on the recipient.

There are a whole bunch of them that have her facility with healing now. And, I don't see why just looking at the spot would take much power. And, unless I am not remembering correctly (and maybe I'm not) she didn't always have her hands on him, she was often just looking.

"A severed connection inside the head" is what they see - not saidin/ saidar.

But, if I remember correctly, wasn't the disconnect different between men and women. AND, if Nynaeve can see a disconnect in a man who can channel, why don't channelers just look towards that spot to see if somone of the opposite sex is a channeler?

You know, thinking about it - How does Nynaeve (and late Flinn) see the point of where saidin was cut in Logain? It's saidin.

Six separate shields doesn't follow from the text. Rand's pov mentions feeling along the edges of a single shield to find the six points, and the Aes Sedai were maintaining a weave they could no longer see, because Rand was in a box. When he unravels the hard knots in the shield, if they were six separate shields some of which had been tied off, then the other Aes Sedai remaining and holding their weaves shouldn't have been aware that he'd unraveled the tied off shields because they wouldn't be able to see them unraveling, and shouldn't be able to feel them unraveling because they're not linked. But they do, as evidenced by one of the hard spots going soft again when Rand starts unraveling the tied off spots.

 

What this looks like to me is an inconsistency in the weaving/linking/tying off mechanics of the Power in order to produce some dramatic tension in the scene. If stacking individual shields is at least as effective, if not more so than having one linked shield, then there's no reason to link to maintain a shield on a male channeler, you'd only need the link to initially cut him off, after that, you'd be better of stacking individual shields because you can go well past the maximum circle numbers. And the Tower Law specifying I think it's a minimum of 6 linked Aes Sedai to maintain the shield on a male channeler wouldn't make any sense. And I doubt that stacking individual shields would be as effective at holding a male than a single, linked shield would be.

 

I'll illustrate this intuition with an analogy to breaking plates. Suppose a shield woven by a single Aes Sedai is like a porcelain plate. It'd be pretty easy to break through that plate. Now, stack six, or hell, even 13 separate plates together, and it's not much harder to break through all 6 or all 13 than it would be to break through the single plate, you've just got to keep your momentum going as you break through each layer. On the other hand, if you link those 6 or 13 Aes Sedai, they'd produce a single plate that's 6 or 13 times thicker than a plate they can produce on their own. That's much harder to break through than 6 or 13 individually stacked plates.

 

I think what's going on here is that when six sisters are linked, though they weave a single weave, the Power for that weave comes from six sources. Tying off a weave allows that weave to continue to be Powered, even though the channeler who initially Powered it is off doing her hair or something. So it seems to me that what's implied here is that a circle of six can form a weave that's say 4 times more powerful than anything any individual sister could pull off, and then 5 of those sisters could "tie off" their Power input to the weave, leaving one active channeler maintaining a weave at least 4 times more powerful than anything she could do on her own. This wouldn't necessarily allow re-weaving, so that you couldn't form a circle of six, have the leader form a shield, 5 go take a coffee break, and the remaining maintaining sister use all that power to re-weave a wall of fire or something. And it's clearly less stable to tie off a link, considering how Rand was able to unravel the tied off points, weakening the shield to the point where he could crush it utterly.

I agree. I'd have to double check to be sure but I don't remember 'shields' ever being written, it was shield. And, as you say, he had to be careful how he broke the AS maintaining the shield so that he didn't alarm the other AS holding the shield.

About shielding, there were 6 shields on Rand when Eliada's embassy kidnapped him.

And I take that was the same for Logain both times he was shielded; and similarly on most saidin channelers the White Tower takes.

 

Huh, I always interpreted the shielding as 6 Aes sedai linked to form the shield. Am I incorrect? Is the shielding at the end of LoC really 6 individual shields woven together?

I thought of it the same as you. 6 AS maintaining one shield.

Ogier Question: The Book of Translation takes them back to Ogiertron. So, if they open it up, does that mean the Seanchan ogier get their asses sent back to Mars, too?

Actually, the place has not been specified in the books.

I take it would be both continent's ogier; and to some random world, not necessarily back to their home world.

Oh! It basically just beams them someplace random? Might as well take your chances in Randland.

you can probably hang a big time yes on that last bit; Rand might have rescued him from the immediate danger (as he did in the book by wrapping him up in Air to keep him from running into the burning ter'angreal), but I think it highly likely that Lan would have sought death in combat, probably in the Blight, without the compulsion to find Myrelle.

Exactly. He would have gone to the blight to die.