9 minutes ago, dwn said:

It works sometimes--The Lion in Winter comes to mind--yet stage phrasing, cadence and theatrics often just look weird when filmed. Book dialogue is similar.

 

I think it's that in TV/Movies the dialogue and acting have to be coupled much more tightly lest you end up with a kind of uncanny valley situation. We accept stilted/poetic language on stage without breaking immersion because it's expected of the medium. Likewise, when reading, our minds are flexible enough to make it all fit together. In a film, it gets unnatural pretty fast.

See I've always felt that way as well. Dialogue from books can come off quite awful on screen. So why is it Lord of the Rings never felt like that to me? It's an honest question, because the dialogue there can be very grandiose and all but for some reason it just works. Maybe not for everyone I suppose, but to me it just fit the setting.

I'd probably give it around a 7/10. Maybe 6.5 depending on how much I dwell on the negatives. Rafe's narative choices have had some upsides but also some very clear downsides when it comes to Perrin and Rand in particular. I could be somewhat forgiving for that but there are considerable amount of changes that just seem straight up unecessary. If they turned out good it would be alright but some of those are just worse than what was in the books and that's rather dissapointing. (AoL scene being the biggest culprit here).

While I understand Rafe's desire to really bring Moiraine to the forefront, I'm scared of the consequences that has on the development of other characters considering the already limited time they have. I like what they've done with Lan is some ways, but there's also been so many missed opportunities to make him feel more like what he is in the books. Right now if I hadn't read the books, I wouldn't be particularly impressed with Lan and that's a big issue to me.

I can appreciate that he has a plan, however there’s now perfect to adapt a book series. 
 

The choices he makes have consequences, both positive and negative. For exemple the choice to focus on Moiraine has had very positive effects allowing them to introduce the larger world and a lot of concepts earlier on. But it also had negative effects when it very much stalled the development of other characters. 
 

And yes that might be just an opinion but when it’s brought up in a lot of reviews it gains weight.

1 minute ago, Cellardur said:

 

I didn't buy the healing and felt they took away from Rand's moment. The healing of Nyneave afterwards was also unnecessary and unbelievable.

 

I do think the near death healing was unecessary. Showing Nyneave in really bad condition because of the circle and not being in control and suffering because of it would have been enough to set up her later struggles with channelling.

1 minute ago, Cellardur said:

However, from my current point I can just about buy Nyneave and Ergwene being used mostly as batteries in a circle to power up someone. I am still early on in the series and not sure how much this contradicts the law. I just think they did too much and surely this should have been plan A, before an actual cavalry charge.

Same, I think them being used as batteries was fine, but I would have prefered if the Shienarans had managed to pull back from the fort, regroup and cavalry charge once the channellers were exhausted. Somewhat similar to the books. It also just makes the Shienarans look better than they did there.

8 minutes ago, Cellardur said:

 

I am only into the series and it has been drummed into me from the books just how strong Ergwene is with only Elayne being her equal. Nyneave is supposed to he even more powerful than that. I am not completely aware of the power of a circle, but this does seem a bit much.

Egwene's potential is very strong but her current strength is quite small since she's just started channelling. Nyneave is even stronger than her and furthermore has been channelling for a while, she just wasn't aware of it.

1 minute ago, Yojimbo said:

So all their records about ...well just about everything are wrong, but they got this one thing right?   Eh, you are probably right, but it feels sloppy to me. 

I mean the Tower should have considerable stores of objects of the power so it's not terrible but I do think it was just an excuse to give Moiraine some kind of plan. Although I did think it was hillarious when she told Rand and he just had a kinda silly smile going "Wait for real this is all you got?!"

I imagine that shot was heavily edited anyway. Still I'd rather that than not a single sighting of Mat. Nothing they can really do in this situation anyway.

3 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

Well, since they have not made much effort to differentiate Saidin from Saidar I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they eliminated the idea that there are sangreal for men and sangreal for women.   

Maybe, but that does present issues later on so I'm not sure if that works. It's also pretty hard to really differentiate Saidin and Saidar so far when Saidin has barely been present. Just a shielded Logain, and the Aes Sedai aren't going to know much about Saidin.

2 minutes ago, Wassup said:

I am curious how she even knew what it was if it is male specific?  Isn’t it specified in the books that channelers cannot recognize angreal or sa’angreal designed for the opposite sex just like they cannot see or sense each other’s weaves?

I mean they might just have records that say it's a male sangreal even if she can't feel it herself.

2 minutes ago, Cellardur said:

Hello everyone. This is my first post. I had heard about the Wheel of Time and planned to read the series from a family member before I heard of the Amazon series, but the series gave me the extra push to start reading. I am currently a third of the way tbrough The Dragon Reborn.

 

As for the show I actually think up until this episode it was a fairly faithful adaptation of The Eye of the World. There were things I would have liked to be different, but there's a lot of information to get across. I watch the Show with a non-reader and I myself am only on book 3.

 

The mystery of who is the dragon was really well done and it drew people into the show. I think this worked really well and whilst most people guessed it was Rand it did cause discussion and excitement.

 

I also think Lan being more emotional makes him a better character than the books.

 

I can see the arguments against wasting two episodes on Stefan, but for me those were the two best episodes on the series and they did not contradict any of the law. I am someone who is rarely moved by films, but I thought Stefans's death and funeral were excellent and it made me really care for Land. Other highlights were the reveal that Dana was a dark friend and Thom. 

 

Now getting to this episode. I think this episode was the worst out of the series and not only a poor adaptation, but just a poor series finale.

Careful, here there be spoilers.

But welcome ?

10 minutes ago, orbops said:

Here's an example of even 14 books being too unwieldly. I was at Barnes & Noble a week ago in the Fantasy section. An older couple was looking for The Wheel of Time books, so I pointed out book 1 EofW for them. They were ready to buy it as a gift for their grandson until I told him that it is a 14 book series.  They immediately put it back and decided to buy the 6 book Dune gift set instead.

Why would you buy all 14 books in the first place? Imagine he doesn't like the 1st book, that's a hell of a lot of wasted money ?

6 minutes ago, Wassup said:

However, changing the power at the eye into a sa’angreal does not make sense to me. Same item and purpose in the story, so I do not understand the change. 

Yeah I don't really get it either. Only thing I can think of is they needed Moiraine to have at least some semblance of a plan. And I guess yeeting the DR at the Dark One with a very powerful sangreal is somewhat better than just plain yeeting him?

I am curious if that Sangreal could be used by both men and women or if the WT just happened to have a male sangreal lying around. Because that has repercussions later on for both Callandor and especially the Choedan Kal.

1 minute ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

I definitely think that this was going to be Mat's scene in the finale but given his absence they had to cut and move things around a bit.

 

I am really curious how they are going to fit Mat, Fain, and the dagger back in.  We obviously saw Mat going back to Tar Valon so we at least know where he is supposed to be.  But, where do they move him next?

 

Well, one obvious way for him to end up in Falme (if that is where the horn will sounded) is for him to follow the girls through the Ways. Otherwise give some reason for him and Thom to travel to Cairhien to meet up with whoever is hunting for the horn? I'm not convinced Mat is gonna have anything else to do with the dagger. I'm guessing he should have been stabbed rather than Loial.

1 minute ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

I saw comments like this on twitter too.   Mostly, they centered around how peaceful the AoL city seemed.  But, even in Rand's wayback machine visions, life seemed to continue on as normal for a lot of people in the visions.

 

Personally, I think that we may see a lot more AoL stuff in season two.  I don't have a lot to base it on but it might make sense to make LTT a character that does more then just yell and scream in Rand's head.  So, maybe they do a whole AoL story arc for him. 

 

I don't mind the peaceful city at all. It's the way LTT and LPD are acting that annoys me.

3 minutes ago, Wassup said:

I understand some people thinking the circle of women channeling was too much.  However, Moiraine did some similar channeling on her own when they were being corralled to Shadar Logoth in the book. She took out hundreds of trollocs with rolling waves of earth. She was using an angreal, but the power levels may be comparable or Ny and Eg could be more. I am not certain about that. 

There were apparently 5 to 10 thousand trollocs there... Even assuming the Shienarans took out plenty, that's a bit much. That said I wouldn't mind, I'm just worried about the impossible standard they might be setting for the future. But hey if they can handle it and go nuclear when it comes to the One Power battles, then cool.

1 minute ago, Sabio said:

Sadly the viewer needs to watch the Origin to get more info on the war of power, and why LTT did his plan.  They kept too much out. There was no sense in the episode how desperate things were or anything.  The arrogance was fine, even from the books it sounded like LTT was a pretty arrogant person.  But the show failed in attempting to explain why he felt this plan had to be done.  The worst thing was the had no idea of DO's counterstroke in the books, but in the series it was known it would happen?  I mean seriously if she knew that would happen why didn't she try harder to stop him.  Well you will taint the male half and cause men to destroy the world, good luck.  We will try to fix everything when you're done.  The scene lacked urgency and desperation.

Yeah I'm fine with LTT having a bit of arrogance to him, that's probably fair. But even he acknowledged that his plan was super risky and that most if not eveyone involved could very well just die. This scene kinda made him look young and gun ho. 

10 minutes ago, calmas55 said:

I think it's a good start. It was never going to be easier condensing the books down. I think there is a foundation for much better episode going forward.

Agreed, and the 1st book was probably the roughest to adapt in the first place. It's no perfect by any mean, there are very much flaws and unforced errors, but I think it's sufficient to get people engaged and excited for what comes next.

1 minute ago, Finfolfin said:

And to non book readers...what is the horn of valere? there was some exposition, but just like everything in this show it falls flat. Such a massive reveal (for us book fans) but for my wife, it was like.... what?

Agreed some mention of it, in some manner really would have been nice, no matter how small.

1 minute ago, Mirefox said:

What was the point in showing Valda and Perrin Goldeneyes in the recap?  Because of that I was expecting to see Perrin hulking out or something, but instead, the only emotion he showed was a bit of anger about the futility of the Way of the Leaf (and I don’t think the Tinkers were shown in the recap, but I’m not 100% on that).

Honestly I think they're just trying to find some kind of scraps to give him to buy time until Elyas shows up and Perrin's development really gets under way.

6 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Agreed.

 

I still think you deserve kudos for starting to get things settled down.

 

As a show-only fan, I'm intrigued by what they've set up and the pretty massive character and plot implications thereof, and can't wait to see what ramifications we get from the episode's two biggest Pattern-Level Events (credit Matt Hatch): Egwene reviving Nynaeve and the One Power being just out of Moiraine's reach.

I don't think Nyneave actually did die. She doesn't look quite like in the same shape as the other 3, just on the brink of death. I hope so at least, because allowing channellers to cure death seems pretty insane to me.

Just now, TheMountain said:

Of course, that would be counter to the nuanced and complex narrative that the show is presenting: Men dumb. Men bad.

I mean it wasn't just Lanfear anyway, what's his face was leading the team in fact.

2 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

Yeah, it really might have been useful in Manetheren.  But, oh well. 

It could somewhat work for me if only the Lord of Fal Dara knows of it, and it is strictly believe that only the DR can use it. Which seems to be what Uno said (or maybe it was the other guy not sure). Still a bit meh.

3 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

It didn’t look they were including the War of Power. So that means no Lanfear accidentally releasing the Dark One either. 

So where do the Forsaken come from then? Was the Dark One just always free on the world? Pretty bad basis for a utopian age ?

The big issue with Nyneave healing Moiraine (not that I believe she's stilled, 100% Ishamael was just super evil tying off the shield on her.) is that how and the world would Logain be healed then? There's no way Nyneave is gonna do that intentionally.

29 minutes ago, Andromedus said:

 

 

Ishy (assuming they are keeping to the books more here and making audience think it's the DO) was really good.  I wonder, and this is my brain trying to reason out their thinking, if they feel showing three confrontations with Ishamael is overkill for the show (as happens in first 3 books).  Maybe they're saving Rand's big showdown and display of power to later confrontations and decided to mirror Manetheren here.

 

Agreed Ishamael was the highlight of the episode to me. Taunting, tempting, elegant, smug, and terrifying. I kinda miss the half insane version from the books, but I think this is better for the actor. And we can still have him go ham a little later on.

Padan Fain was the other very positive point of the episode to me, the actor has done great work with so little.

29 minutes ago, Andromedus said:

 

That bummed me out, I wanted Rand to suddenly appear at Tarwins Gap and wreck shit.

 

Same, but lacking that I wish there had been a smaller version of that at the Eye, with Lan fighting his way to them just so he actually had something to do. Building up the DR as a quasi force of nature but then not really showing his power was a definite let down.

29 minutes ago, Andromedus said:

 

I like this show, but this episode was a bit of a disappointment.  I still think this show can be great, but they really need to find more expressions for Perrin than befuddled "I'm about to cry" face or get him off the show, he's useless and more boring than he was in the books.

 

I think Perrin has been the biggest dissapointment this season to be honest. I think I remember saying after episode 4 came out that Elyas can't get here soon enough. Unfortunately he hasn't appeared and Perrin has suffered from it. He basically has had nothing to do, no really developpment of his link with the wolves, and the only plot point he was a part of was awfully cringy (whether the dumb love triangle really is one or not).

29 minutes ago, Andromedus said:

 

LTT - they needed another scene or two with him to make that scene make more sense.  Still cool but could've been more.

I honestly just can't get behind that cold open. The acting was fine, and the visuals of the AoL was cool, as was LTT's outfit, it being reminiscent of the Ashaman.

But the characterization of LTT, the backround to his plan, the situation in the hall of servants is all just wrong. And they're all the more frustrating in that the original version wouldn't affect the story, it just presents a far more nuanced and complicated situation than what the show did. 

Where is the urgency, the desperation, the hostility present between these two characters? The entire scene fails to convey the disastrous situation the Light finds itself in, the edge of the precipice on which they find themselves as time is running out. Its too calm. I was so happy when they were showing LTT and LPD giving backround to the strik at Shayol Ghul but what was presented was just not right in my opinion. Doesn't help that there's small annoyances like LTT no longer wearing the ring of Tamyrlin? The watcher of the Flame? At that time the Aes Sedai were still united the "flame" wouldn't exist. 

Just a swing and a miss to me, and an unforced error to boot sadly. If you're gonna change things from the books unecessarily, it better me to improve it. That wasn't it.

Egwene has to end up in Seanchan hands. Mat has to sound the horn. Rand has to recover Callandor. Those are the main important beats of the books. Considering how much work has been put into Rand and Egwene's relationship not having him present for the confrontation with the Seanchan would be pretty weird to me. And they have landed to the west already. I think we're looking at a truncated book 2 to get to Tear and book 4 as quickly as possible. I believe Cairhien is already shown to be in the second season?