Personally I would have left the flame suit at home and packed a life jacket instead.

Although they have been sprinkled through the thread, might be helpful to summarize all the quotes on the topic so posters have them for quick reference:

Interview: Jan 18th, 2003
COT Signing Report - Tallis (Paraphrased)
Robert Jordan
Rand has no direct connection with the Creator. The Creator is completely removed from the world; aside from...creating...the Pattern, he does nothing else whatsoever to influence anything.

 

terview: Jun 17th, 1995
East of the Sun Interview - Helena Lofgren (Paraphrased)
Robert Jordan
Another point he pressed was that "no one's going to rescue you", there are not going to happen any miracles. The Creator shaped the world and set the rules, but does not interfere. Humankind messed things up, and have to fix it too, as well as finding the truth themselves.

 

Interview: Apr, 1997
SFX Magazine Interview (Paraphrased)
Robert Jordan
Thirdly, in defeating the Dark One, the good guys can expect absolutely no help off the Creator, and no miracles will occur.

Interview: Oct 12th, 1996
ACOS Signing Report - Michael Martin (Paraphrased)
Question

The Creator's "Inability" To Act On His Creation

Having encountered a similar "theology" in Donaldson's Covenant series, I have been quite curious why the Creator can't act on His own world. It didn't seem to make sense, except as a plot device.
Robert Jordan
RJ answered this question. His thesis was this: A perfect Creator should create a perfect creation. To act, miraculously or no, on this world, would be tantamount to acknowledging imperfection in Himself. So, when humanity screwed things up, they've been left on their own to "patch" things up. :-)

So as we can clearly see, the statements on the topic of the Creator taking no part are consistent across the board.

INTERVIEW: Mar, 2000

Letter to Paul Ward (Verbatim)

PAUL WARD

Possible question: Is the Dark One pure True Power? Why does the Creator ignore Randland except to talk to Rand at the end of The Eye of the World?

ROBERT JORDAN

No, the Dark One is not pure True Power. Who says the Creator takes little interest in the activities of mankind? And I will neither confirm nor deny that the Creator spoke to Rand.

PAUL WARD

Neither confirm nor deny? What's up with that?.

One interesting thing I saw Dom post over at TL is the possibility of a Nakomi/Tigraine/Calian link:

It's an interesting detail in itself that RJ chose to make this pair appear masked in their archetypal appearances. It's easy to suggest that Calian and Shivan either aren't what people think they are when they are alive or maybe that their nature and role as instruments/agents in Prophecies remains mostly hidden from humanity (Tigraine proclaiming "I am the Maiden and Chooser, here to choose my mate and give birth to the man who will decide to end this Age and maybe all Ages while my brother will be there in position at the end if the Dragon needs to be killed wouldn't exactly go well with the populace...), that they go under the radar, or appear under more than one identities, both of which would fit the profiles of Tigraine and Luc, public figures of Andor who actually both played an occult role none have fully put together, one as part of Slayer (occulted) and the other as Shaiel (largely occulted). Shaiel made the choice to follow Gitara's foretelling and chose a lover in Janduin and gave birth, in self-sacrifice, to humanity's "choice", incarnated in Rand, following prophecy. Tigraine's choices set in motion the "beginning of the end of the Age", the last 20 years of the cycle, while Luc played his part all the way to the very last minutes of the Age. Luc also hunted down Janduin (and killed him, preventing him from becoming a Red Veil - not sure it's relevant, but I point it out, and preventing him from pre-uniting part of the Aiel, maybe starting a war among the clans) and hunted down Rand to the Pit of Doom, bringing in his throes Lanfear who manipulated him and Perrin who hunted him with the wolves, who killed both the Slayer/Hunter and Moonhunter, preventing them from killing Rand who had made the right choice, in the very last moments of "the Third Age" and very first of the Fourth.

It works even better if Calian/Tigraine returns as Nakomi to encourage Rand's "death and rebirth". Tigraine's choices, and Luc's Hunt also set in motion events that lead to Elayne taking the throne of Andor down the line, while setting Elaida on her path to take the Amyrlin Seat, not to mention the foretelling about Tigraine/Luc guided Tar Valon (Gitara and Tamra)and the confirmation it had been partly fulfilled with Rand's birth is tied to Moiraine's mission. For Luc, there is then the Dark Prophecy, heralding his final role with Lanfear in AMOL.

None of that is of course fully conclusive, but Tigraine and Luc certainly could fit the names of "The Chooser" and "The Hunter", while as for their archetypes it's harder to tell because Jordan never gave us terribly good clues to define them, except they worked as "heralds", thus most likely forerunners of the end of the Age and the birth of the new (which makes it very unlikely they're Elayne's twins, born after the Age already started... no one would really be in the mood to deny the LB marked the start of a new Age... not that it would matter anyway since the Age itself has begun whether humans acknowledge it or not.. it was to mark the beginning of the end with Rand's birth that was important to key individuals.e), they are brother and sister (literally or not) and we might surmise they fulfill their mission one way or another covertly/masked, so maybe they're heralds that go mostly unnoticed, more like forerunners than horn sounders... It sounds to me like those two Heralds are basically like incarnated Prophecy, through which direct agency The Wheel acts to make the Age spiral directly to its end first (by bringing the rebirth of the Dragon through Calian, and setting Shivan on his Hunt), then the new one comes - and Slayer/Tigraine do fit this part (even more if Nakomi is truly Tigraine).

While i understand where Mr Ares is coming from about cads i have to say i disagree, its one thing to stand up for ones self and not to back down in a contest of wills with the DR, quite another to constantly goad and try to humiliate him in front of his men, i think just seeing how the others treated her convinced him she wasnt just another AS, she tried to get him to respect her or at least fear her, all she ended up doing was getting him to hate her and see her as just another arrogant manipulater.

It has been well broken down elsewhere but Cads took the only option available to her after a very careful study of Rand and the situation. Old post below:

In fact we know she did a ton of research on Rand and tested his character and sanity in their first meeting. She fell on a course of action based on the results that the WOs advocated as well.

"Most men will take what is offered, if it seems attractive and pleasant," Sorilea said. "Once, we thought of Rand al'Thor so. Unfortunately, it is too late to change the path we walk. Now, he suspects whatever is offered freely. Now, if I wanted him to accept something, I would pretend I did not want him to have it. If I wanted to stay close to him, I would pretend indifference to whether I ever saw him again." Once more, those eyes focused on Cadsuane, green augers. Not trying to see what lay inside her head. The woman knew.

 

- The Path of Daggers, New Alliances

Here decision on how to proceed was absolutely correct:

"If you want to see what a man is made of, push him from a direction he doesn't expect. There's good metal in that boy, I think, but he's going to be difficult." Steepling her fingers, she peered across them at the wall, musing to herself. "He has a rage in him fit to burn the world, and he holds it by a hair. Push him too far off balance .... Phaw! Al'Thor's not so hard yet as Logain Ablar or Mazrim

Taim, but a hundred times as difficult, I fear."

 

- A Crown of Swords, Diamonds and Stars

After how he was treated by other AS there was no other course of action she could have taken. He would have been distrustful of anything else.

But I must wait for him to come to me. You see the way he runs roughshod over Alanna and the others. It will be hard enough teaching him, if he does ask. He fights guidance, he thinks he must do everything, learn everything, on his own, and if I do not make him work for it, he won't learn at all."

 

- Winter’s Heart, Bonds

It should be noted that Moiraine told Eggy and AVi that this was exactly what Rand needed.

Rand will need both of you in the days to come. You handle his temper well – though I may say your methods are unusual. He will need people who cannot be driven away or quelled by his rages, who will tell him what he must hear instead of what they think he wants to.”

 

- The Fires of Heaven, News Comes To Cairhien

Towards the end the deterioration of things was mainly do to Rand's psychological darkness, he saw not only Cads but everyone in the worst possible light. The reality is she saved his life multiple times, she backed him to the hilt/executed a perfect defense at the cleansing, and she out of all the AS swore to do what was best for him, not herself or the WT. Compared to all of that calling him "boy"(often when he is acting like a child) is hardly an issue. It may have taken a lucky stroke at the end but Rand himself flat out states she took the correct course:

"I was broken," Rand said, hands behind his back. "And then, remarkably, I was reforged. I think he almost had me, Egwene. It was Cadsuane who set me to fixing it...

 

- Towers of Midnight

She doesn't care for titles, she hates politicking, and she never suffers fools. It's part of the reason the WO's respect her so much. She keeps her word and always works towards Rand's benefit(a driving piece of her character is trying to better those around her and we see her show compassion on a regular basis). Despite that all many fans seem to care about is "but ZOMFG she was a big meanie to the Dragon Reborn!"

"Exaggerated a wee bit" doesn't even begin to properly characterize the op's opinion. There can be no realistic discussion on the topic when one side starts from such a place.

@suttree,

nakomi is tigraine?and she is a hero of the horn?

so when rand came back from the pit of doom his mother was there

to say goodbye?(as i recall,the heroes of the horn were in shayol ghul).

Interesting theory for sure. As I said earlier there would have been no need to "dig deep" in the notes to figure out "who the character was" if it was an avatar(which we already knew was impossible from RJ). Now the Tigraine or possible Jenn Aiel angle could work. Should be noted as well that Brandon said we were "sniffing under the right tree" in relation to the Jenn.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=638#8

What's for certain after all this new info is we can put the final nail in the coffin concerning a Creator's avatar once and for all.

@southpaw89

Cheers for the extra info.

Interesting stuff coming out of JC concerning Nakomi:

Terez

Anyway, the gist of Brandon's answers: RJ did write the woman in the coming-out-of-the-mountain scene. Brandon is not sure if he changed her physical description or not, but he says that if he did change anything about the scene, it would have been that. I'm not sure exactly what it means but perhaps a transcript will make it more clear. He says that the "deep in the notes" thing was Brandon digging in the notes to try to figure out who the woman in that scene was supposed to be. He didn't say "And then I decided to use her with Aviendha" but since he's said he pitched that whole Aviendha sequence, it would seem obvious that's what happened.

I also asked him how he could be sure that the powers Nakomi displayed with Aviendha weren't the same as Rand's new powers if he didn't know anything more about the pipe than the fans do. He said it's because he knows what Nakomi was doing and he's sure it can't be what Rand was doing. There's more to that answer, which I will type up eventually, but my impression was that (as we suspected) Aviendha was actually asleep, and Nakomi entered her dream. We don't know of any other Heroes doing that, but it would make the most sense with the options available.

Nirvana covering "In The Pines"...

@Lazy
 
The Yeard is a nickname given to Goodkind:
 

Yeard
A yeard refers to a ponytail and beard combination which can be seen in almost any picture of Terry. The word originated as a misspelling of beard which became a joke that we picked up and ran with in the threads. Sometimes Terry is referred to as "The Yeard", a definitive term and insult all rolled into one.

While his legion of detractors have come to be known as the "Lemmings of Discord":
 

Lemmings of Discord

The name given to "haters" of Terry by his most loyal fan My*. This originated in an email that My* sent to Pat of Pat's Fantasy Hotlist in which he attempted to insult Pat by calling him a "Lemming of Discord", a title so obviously brilliant and hilarious that we only wish we came up with it ourselves.

For must of us the terrible prose, shoddy plotwork, blatant rip offs and chickens who aren't chickens are enough reason to dislike his work. Him being a major douche(mocking a terminally ill RJ etc.) is only icing on the cake.

If anyone feels like continuing there have been a number of Goodkind threads over the years. Most recent one:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/58132-similarities-with-wot-and-sword-of-truth-sot-series/page-4

@Lazy

Answering your question about the "Yeard" there.

Starting on The Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind.

Ouch.

Admittedly its been a while, but i recall RJ being a bit coy and very specific with his language about this subject.

Interview: Apr 4th, 2001

Leiden Signing Report - Aan'allein (Verbatim)

Robert Jordan

It would be the same soul. That is, that is the belief of the world that I've set up, that it's the same soul. It's a soul of someone bound to the Wheel, which is spun out for the purposes, for the Wheel's purposes really, to attempt to re-balance the Weaving of the Pattern.

Aan'allein

But the soul would always be male. Souls don't change gender, so ...

Robert Jordan

...so the soul of the Dragon Reborn is always going to be male, just as Birgitte's soul is always born as a woman, just as Ameresu's soul is always born as a woman. There are divisions here, and they are not interchangeable.

Interview: Dec 12th, 2000

CNN Chat (Verbatim)

Jonan

Mr. Jordan, is it possible that in another age, another turning of the wheel, that saidar could be tainted instead of saidin? This relates to the Female Dragon Theory.

Robert Jordan

That is not something I intend to explore.

Interview: 2001

Thus Spake the Creator (Paraphrased)

Signing Report (Workings of the Wheel) Robert Jordan

Female Dragon..NO when a female hero is needed she is one of the ones bound to the Wheel. Jordan did mention a name but I didn't hear it. But he did say the Dragon is never female.

Matt Hatch

So, there was a question about the Dragon soul, and whether that was a title or not—was that your question?—so,he did answer. Someone asked him, because it had to do with...the entirety of the question was, you know, can it change? Could it be a woman, could it be a female? Would it be the same person in a new Turning? And his point, his answer was, it could not be female—that the soul would remain the same gender—and he also said that it would not necessarily be Rand in the next Turning. So in other words, it would still be that same soul, but it would not be—necessarily—the Rand story, the next time around. It might be...whatever. And he talked about it just because, looking at the Pattern as things change in Turnings, little things are going to change, or I guess in this case, maybe it's something bigger. So, I don't know if that answers your question, but that is answered again.

Rand is the dragon soul and souls don't change gender per RJ.

Wrapped up The Goldfinch, highly recommend.

Starting in on Tender as Hellfire by Joe Meno.

1. Burden of proof lies on your side I'm not saying it again and your attempts at obfuscation in order to avoid an honest debate are reaching absurd lengths.

2. You consistently(at this point it has to be deliberate) fabricate things and have offered zero concrete support for your theory. Not have you adequately addressed the multiple word of god quotes that shoot it down.

3. Not sure why you are attempting to carry on this farce of claiming that one RJ statement and Peters quote confirm or deny anything. Everyone can see they don't. Hence they do not support Nakomi = Avatar in the slightest. In fact the Peter quote says nothing about Luckers theory and RJ's is a textbook AS statement.

4. You've done zero to prove the voice actually is the Creator. It's not up to the other side to do anything here. One again burden of proof lies squarely with you.

5. Brandon stating Nakomi is not solely theory fodder does not = Nakomi is an avatar. Further the creator having an avatar would not be based on something found "deep in the notes".

6. As for Nakomi and who she is, not sure why you keep asking what I think. You were around for old debates and saw my posts then. I fell into the Verin camp and acknowledged being wrong when that was debunked. Regardless she served no purpose and at this point what she wasn't is clearly more important than who she was.

In the end most of what you've tried to present is either an outright lie, a deliberate twisting of facts or an attempt muddy the waters and avoid having to present actual evidence for your theory. Until you're ready to do that I'm done.

Snip

Think you are lacking a little perspective concerning the other participant in this discussion lad...

For the past few pages you've just been telling people that their evidence is worthless

It is...and for clarity I've been telling one particular person.

and their arguments false, without any real reasons.

Aside from pointing out logic fails and providing multiple word of god quotes? As Mat's said read the whole thread mate.

Generally when you attack an idea you also offer an alternative.

You don't say.

Spend some time looking at old conversations and overall contributions here at DM. Your barking up the wrong tree.

There are multiple answers along those lines and absolutely nothing to contradict them. As pointed out the single statement that exists which you've regurgitated here takes a huge leap of logic. Further it does not confirm or deny anything, much the same as Peter's response.

Lastly the level of honesty in how you are approach the discussion along with the attempst at revisionist history don't do you many favors.

 

Could you be any more disingenuous(as has been the case in all of your incarnations) with some of the declarative statements and your revisionist history of how this conversation has played out?

This is simply your interpretation of what Brandon said.

@kil

 

That isn't correct. The concept was based on something found deep in the notes. The character and scenes were all Brandon. RJ never wrote any of her parts.

That is a rather AS statement. Please clarify then if I am incorrect. Are you confirming RJ created the character named Nakomi? Thanks.

Lol. Chastised...

1. The above had nothing to do with Luckers theory.

2. Saying the RJ quote = proof of the Creator's involvement takes some truly astonishing mental gymnastics. As does leaping from the voice of the Creator(if indeed that is the case) = proof of the Creator being willing to use an avatar.

3. The creator does not act "miraculously or no"...pretty black and white. Plus:

The Creator is completely removed from the world; aside from...creating...the Pattern, he does nothing else whatsoever to influence anything.

All your doing is trying to avoid having to offer any evidence for your own theory. Again the burden of proof lies squarely with those making the Nakomi = Avatar claim.

Mate, there is no common ground to even begin this discussion. The leaps in logic you are making are approaching Grand Canyon size levels.

Cheers and welcome back to DM.

(Takes a bow).

For copy/pasting a well known quote that has already been provided and discussed in thread? Uhhmm...bravo?

No one has offered a logical theory about the voice being anyone other than the Creator.

Lastly I'm curious as to how you know that the "over whelming" opinion sides with the voice being the creator(not that ad populum would help settle anything). If you just looked through the threads please link to places that show that to be the case. Or are you saying you've been following the arguments here for years without joining and that is the general sense you got?

 Since you are choosing to completely ignore the voice question (which refutes your interpretation of Jordan's quotes about the Creator) I would say it does appear that this debate is indeed over.

Ermmm

Edit: One other thing to note. Say the voice is the creator and not the DO or just an ewotism or any other of the things that have been argued. It's a huge leap to go from that to actively creating an avatar to sit down and have a chat over tea with Avi. Lastly I'm curious as to how you know that the "over whelming" opinion sides with the voice being the creator(not that ad populum would help settle anything). If you just looked through the threads please link to places that show that to be the case. Or are you saying you've been following the arguments here for years without joining and that is the general sense you got?

A voice that is unconfirmed as the creator refutes  the multiple RJ quotes which are from well after eWoT was released? Lol...ok.

For the last time. If you wish to continue put together a theory and back it up. End of.

So again none of  that is evidence, it qualifies as opinion. There is nothing Nakomi did that was unique/couldn't have happened in Tar. You still have not come remotely close to having her serve a purpose as well. Further the symmetry claim can not be taken seriously given the RJ quotes. You seem to maintain that view despite direct comments from Jordan to the contrary.

It's not my claim but I lean towards Luckers interpretation. As for Peter, he gave an AS response and nothing more. It's kind of his mo. I've seen the "evidence" and it's not compelling in the slightest. All of this trying to shift the burden of proof gets tiresome as well. Put a theory together to support your assertion if you want it to be considered, that is how things work around these parts. Regardless it seems clear neither of us are going to budge on this. Cheers and welcome back to DM. Hope the stay is a bit longer this time around.

The theory being put forth is Nakomi is an avatar of the Creator. Hence the burden of proof lies with those making that claim. That is how debates work. 

You have said the evidence strongly points to it despite multiple claims from the author himself, yet you refuse to give any to back the claim. We have seen a good deal of opinion in this thread, but evidence...no not in the slightest.

Edit: One other thing to note. Say the voice is the creator and not the DO or just an ewotism or any other of the things that have been argued. It's a huge leap to go from that to actively creating an avatar to sit down and have a chat over tea with Avi. Lastly I'm curious as to how you know that the "over whelming" opinion sides with the voice being the creator(not that ad populum would help settle anything). If you just looked through the threads please link to places that show that to be the case. Or are you saying you've been following the arguments here for years without joining and that is the general sense you got?

 If you're claiming that Nakomi had no purpose, then as I said that's an extraordinary claim that needs to be supported to be taken seriously.

That's not how it works, you're attempting to shift the burden of proof here. Please expand on what Nakomi's purpose was as an (no the creator showing concern is not a purpose). Additionally tell us what "evidence" you see that "strongly supports" Nakomi being an avatar of the Creator.

RJ was very clear on this point and attempts to claim the quotes are somehow 'misconstrued' in a situation this cut and dry fall flat.

And I've got a sinking feeling on this one...but I'll play it straight.

The evidence put forth in this thread strongly points to Nakomi being an avatar of the Creator.

What evidence would that be? Care to summarize?

The argument against is rather flimsy, and really only consists of a single quote from Jordan about the Creator's general noninvolvement, which I think several people have misconstrued.

Sorry but RJ has given a number of different answers on this topic over the years and he has always said the exact same thing about the Creator not getting involved. Check out the Theoryland database if you're interested to read more. It is far more than a single quote.

Some people have claimed that Nakomi was thrown in randomnly without real purpose to simply add an unanswered question to the mix. ]

Nakomi's purpose was what exactly?

Even taking Nakomi out of the equation, we have seen passive involvement of the Creator through his voice at the end of The Eye of the World and in A Memory of Light when Rand is about to enter Shayol Ghul.

I would recommend doing a bit of searching through old threads. There has always been a good deal of debate in the WoT fandom about who exactly the voice is.