I must say I hadn't considered Davram Bashere as a potential Darkfriend, merely as a man who tests those he is in alliance with to their limits. He always seems to want to find out how far Rand can go, how strong he is. Tenobia, however, I think could very well have given herself to the Shadow. It is inconceivable that any Borderland ruler would leave a stretch of the Blight undefended just because she is impatient and impulsive.

I think you are right about both Davram and Tenobia dying in the final book and your theories on Perrin and the Broken Crown make perfect sense.

I like this theory, Des. Much more likely than Bashere being a DF.

Maybe Bashere will die killing Tenobia?

Just a random thought here. Couldnt Perrin being Lord of the Two Rivers sort of be considered breaking of the Andor Crown?

He basically told Elayne to go stuff herself.

Also raising Manetherne(sp) , a broken crown in its own right, kind of fulfills it too in a way.

All though I do think the broken crown has more to do with Faile's assention to the Saldean throne and his, at the time, impending relationship with her than with an ruling position he may attain in his own right.

Was there ever any suggestion that Compulsion and related abilities were limited strictly to women? If not, I would imagine that's how the Shadow gets in its licks through Bashere or some other Borderlander ruler.

Don't forget that Rahvin, aka Gaebril, used compulsion almost compulsively on Morgase and others in the Andoran court. And as for Bashere being a darkfriend, I think it's impossible. He proves himself on multiple occasions as being eccentric and I'm convinced that he didn't recognize Taim b/c the false dragon was replaced by Demandred. There also would be no need for his wife to be attacked by darkfriends who were searching his tent for the seals. If he was on the same side then he would just tell them not to bother.

compulsion compulsively Is that you, Mawthtex? Sure sounds sig-quotable, so it must be...

Yeah, I agree that Davram pretty much CAN'T be a darkfriend. We're shown several of his PoV's and he would have had WAY too many chances at this point to cause major trouble for Rand if he were actually a darkfriend.

I still think it's possible though that Tenobia is a darkfriend

@ Leyrann: Hey bro! I like that idea - and he kills her with a spear!

Interesting theories. But, maybe Rand couldn't "Darkfriend Seeing Eye Test" Tenobia because he was in Far Madding at the time? Possibley the gaurdians there inpaired the ability and it is some how linked to the One Power?

Is it possible as well, that the Spear Covered in Blood could relate to Tenobia damaging the Light's armies?

Just a few thoughts i had when i intially read ToM ^^

Man - first off, the registration process on this forum blows like a hurricane..but back to the topic.

I see a problem with the idea that Perrin will take up the Broken Crown of Saldea. While all of the foreshadowing does point to this end, how will we resolve the problem of Perrin having given his oath to Elayne that he (and his future kids?) would renounce any claim to the throne of Saldea?

Perrin is a very honorable fellow, and although we can see how it might be advantageous for Perrin and Faile to augment Andor's might against the Seanchan war machine, Elayne as a ruler would be far more hesitant, i.m.o., to let her subject (who already has enormous leeway even by Andoran High-Lord standards) have so much power.

After all, from Elayne's standpoint, if the province of Manetheren were to renounce its oath of fealty, it would have a good shot of a successful rebellion, if it had Saldea to back it. Remember, Elayne is fairly distrustful of Perrin and Faile.

Also, Ruling two nations is tricky. Perrin would no doubt want to stay in Manetheren; a foreigner ruling the country of Saldea by remote? I grant that Traveling is now making transportation much easier, but I don't remember there being significant discussions of trade/skirmishes between Saldea and Andor. They are separated by long distances.

What I'm really curious about is what the hidden meaning behind the broken crown really is. Several times over multiple books (in L.O.C. when Perrin first meets his new in-laws for instance) people talk about the broken crown as if it's something else entirely than the face value.

In one of the later books Perrin thinks of the argument he's going to have with Faile for not mentioning the broken crown earlier- and this is long after he found out she was royalty as well. Is this "Broken Crown" a super-weapon? A secret, powerful terangreal that anyone can use maybe? Or, knowing Robert Jordan, perhaps something so straight out of left field that nobody's gonna see coming until it smacks us in the nose in 2012.

All I know is that this has been a subject referred to for so long throughout the series that it has to be something good and I for one can't wait to find out what it is!

@Storm Leader: We know that Taim is not Demandred, but I don't think we should start discussing about that here, because this is about the Broken Crown...

And I think we need to search to find out what the BC is. I just started my first reread, so...

@Des (and Maw, might he see it): Why doesn't Maw ever say sig-quatable things at the main board of the BT?

As for Tenobia there is this saying about combat and being the point of the spear referring to being at the forefront of the battle but being used by someone else. I think this might be a good interpretation of Tenobia's role and Min's vision of her.

As for having darkfriend associates being enough to convict one of the same let us harken back to the Great Hunt and determine for yourselves how easily it is for a darkfriend to penetrate even the most strident of the light's supporers inner circle.

I think earlier in the series we were supposed to be suspicious (as in written that way for effect) of both Taim and Bashere but as time has played out we have more evidence that Taim has more to hide than anyone first suspected. Basheres reactions to him can probably be explained in that regard.

I think in many ways we are making more of Min's visions than they really are. The Broken Crown could be just another representation of his impending relationship with Faile. The falcon and hawk images portray portents about different aspects of his relationships with both Faile and Berlain.

Logain's glory will probably come as a result of his defeat of Taim and his forging some alliance with the WT in the end. After all he is the one male channeler that has had the most contact with the girls.

@aammondd I think the term is "The spear-head" or something. It's what i was referring to :) But, who will be the "Spear-head"? The Aiel would be the likely choice, and then theres all the prophecies of not a lot of them surviving. Could be all linked.

@Cloudsss I'm thinking she dies by the evil Aiel, the ones that killed Barriga the merchant in the end of ToM.

Please pardon the late comment, if that's bad etiquette--haven't blogged before. The Broken Crown could be, as aammondd suggests, another representation pertaining to Faile. As I read the various comments, I wonder if it's so certain that Perrin will survive the Last Battle such that he could actually inherit a crown? Something in ToM suggested to me that perhaps he might not, although I can't tell you specifically what passages gave that sense without the luxury of more time. I'm curious if anyone else picked up a sense of that suggestion, and have mainly chosen to write to ask for your thoughts on that.

More generally on the subject of prophesy, I find it interesting that Perrin is a subject of Seanchean prophecy, though that didn't seem to give clues on the broken crown. Min also saw trees flowering around Perrin. That sounds less portentous than a broken crown; it seems not to have happened yet either. Perhaps that pertains to tree singing or the Song.

@ Andrea: No worries about the late comment, I might not always see them but you're in luck today because I was able to notice it on the side of the front page. Btw, if you liked this entry, but are also interested in how Perrin might be connected to the Talent of Singing, you might want to read this past entry of my blog: A Faint Thread Of Music Caught Perrin's Ear. What you brought up is the exact subject matter that entry focuses on.

As for the possibility of Perrin dying in the last book, it's definitely possible, there are a couple of small indicators this should come to pass. Plus he's unique among the three main ta'veren in that he would still be very useful even if he were to die, because of his abilities as a wolfbrother in Tel'aran'rhiod. That being said I actually get the feeling he won't die in the last book, there seems to be something important about all three ta'veren being together for some final confrontation, and I'm not sure how this could work with Perrin being in Tel'aran'rhiod.

One more thing, I left out a certain passage in the book which foreshadows Perrin wearing a crown even more strongly than some of the other quotes I referenced; I was hoping one of my readers might be able to find it...

@ Despothera: Thanks for the reference to A Faint Thread of Music... I enjoyed that, though was surprised at only a single reference to Loial.

Regarding Perrin surviving to gain a crown (@Andrea, @Despothera), I really don't see it. I'm convinced he will die. The dark prophecy Moridin read to Graendal said "Aybara will die" (paraphrasing, don't have book or passage in front of me). Also, at the end of The Great Hunt, after Matt has winded the Horn and Perrin has axed a small tree for the Dragon Banner, Artur Hawkwing casually mentioned that sometimes new heroes are added to the host brought forth from the Horn, eyeing Perrin as he says it (I believe he even referred to him as "Standard-Bearer," almost like testing out a Name).

Given the way RJ liberally peppered this saga with foreshadowing, I gotta lean toward this as a clue to his demise, but also to his return. Presuming Matt blows the Horn again before the end, Perrin will charge in to help save the day. To the Host of the Horn, he may be the Standard Bearer, to the Seanchean he will be their Wolf King, and to the Dragon he will be forever bound to the Horn of Valere. He'll still be able to come to Faile in her dreams, to learn of the child she bears him, and of grandchildren, until she passes and perhaps joins him in being bound to the Horn (the Falcon and the Wolf, the Huntress and the Standard Bearer, etc.). They definitely have an heroic love story worthy of legend, worth being bound to the Wheel of Time. Just sayin'.

The prophecy was"In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come. Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself" Rand is First among Vermin, Mat is the One-eyed Fool, Perrin is the Fallen Blacksmith. Death has not known Perrin, and he is not broken. Wolf doesn't necessarily mean Perrin every time it's mentioned. And IIRC, Hawkwing was looking at Hurin when he said that, not Perrin. The dream Perrin had when he was wearing the lion head helmet when Lanfear visited him leads me to believe that he already is tied to the horn.

I' ll break down the above post with my interpretations.. The One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning refers to Mat inside the Tower of Gengi (sp) called mourning because of the death of Farstrider. First Among Vernim lifts his hand is Rand of course with him about to break the seals. The Broken Wolf is Hopper who Death has known and he was consumed and brought fear and sorrow.. The Fallen blacksmith's pride refers to Perrin's decision to fight with slayer with the final death of the Broken Wolf as the consequence. All have been fulfilled and would hopefully mean Perrin can survive.

What if the Broken Wolf is Slayer? He dies at the Black Tower battle and somehow Lan and Rand discover he was composed of their relatives, which brings them fear and sorrow.

What if the Broken Wolf is Slayer? He dies at the Black Tower battle and somehow Lan and Rand discover he was composed of their relatives, which brings them fear and sorrow.

I like that suggestion, but how can Slayer be the Broken Wolf? He's never been a wolf. It is far more likely that Perrin or Hopper is the Broken Wolf. I don't think Perrin is the Broken Wolf, because he has to be the Fallen Blacksmith. That makes Hopper the Broken Wolf. But how can his destruction bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men? I hope it will be explained in the last book...

@Laica Sedai & Betray

IMHO, Isam/Luc, aKa Slayer, very well may have been bestowed by the Dark One with a sort of "Broken" Wolfbrother type ability, or maybe one of them was indeed a Wolfbrother before the merging of their souls, and the DO twisted and corrupted that ability into one with which he turns regular wolves into Darkhounds and very much so makes it possible that he could be the Broken Wolf spoken of in prophecy. The broken nation of Malkier, a symbol to all of the Borderlands to continue the fight against the Shadow, birthing Isam, one of the most dangerous of the Shadows' assets? That would be crushing to Lan, his followers, as well as the rest of the Borderlands. Then Luc, Prince of the Swords (I believe that is the title) to Andor and Tigraine, making him the uncle to the DR, who wears a decent amount of wolf-related materials (i.e. a wolfhead belt buckle) would have a significant impact on Rand, and everyone associated with him. That would easily bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men. He has also known Death, in Moridin, who controls/owns him IIRC. As well as the fact that half his persona died, yet the other still lives. Just my two cents worth. (^_^)

Also, in retrospect, (and just one of my pet theories at that) by redeeming himself ala Ingtar, he could then be put down by the remaining Forsaken per orders of the DO, and thus "be consumed by the Midnight Towers". In which case his return to the Light is completely obliterated by the Shadow and therefore his violent death would definitely succeed in "bringing fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shake their very will itself" in doing so. Crazy, but I like the different implications this could bring to fruition.