Hackers Mafia - Game Thread [Game Over]

[Eldrick4221]

I don't think that's what she's saying.

 

I think she changed her mind over whether or not scum!Pral would vote with the read.

 

Pral didn't. She has Pral as scum. Therefore scum!Pral didn't.

 

At least that's how I read it. She could also be blatantly contradictory. "Pral didn't vote there, so Pral isn't scum." *votes pral*

 

That doesn't make sense.

[Eldrick4221]

I'm actually against no lynch at f6.

 

F6 and F5 are mechanically the same. If we vote wrong, scum wins. Only difference is when.

 

I would rather be majority be 4 votes over 3 votes if 2 scum are alive.

[Zander?]

 

Its interesting tho Cass you never brought that up till Darthe mentioned it.

 

 

Where did Darthe mention this?

 

 

I think you should factor in what he said about Monter imo

 

Is it? Have you looked at Shad's ISO with the perspective of 'who is he setting up here'? I find it hard to believe you read his ISO and didn't come up with the same pings I did.

 

I think this could be Town Zander with blinkers coming back at me instead of actually thinking about the question in context/considering you might be wrong, but the sus he keeps throwing my way without reconsidering anything to do with me, at any point is bad and pinging and something he'd use to his advantage beyond reason if scum.

 

 

Your question a) can't be properly answered if excluding him answering questions, and b) is excluding part of the first reason I suss you.

 

You are completely overlooking the 2 times he promoted the town reads on both of us. What THOSE said to me is more important imo.

 

Because he was giving confident town reads so early in the game, it felt like there was scum he was trying to distance from. No scum ever expects to be lynched, and the game plan is usually to slot a teammate at a Town read right off the bat. That's what it looks like he's doing with you. He town read manbat as well. Like super early in the game.

 

Pros - Eldrick considers and provides an answer and an opportunity to talk. Cons - it's all twisted with a bias against me.

 

"No scum ever expects to be lynched" is a load of bollocks, and  you're 100% wrong on the bold when it comes to players like Shad. I understand scum generally put a proportion of teammates in Town at the start to avoid having to vote them D1, but generally the players they never doubt are Town being pocketed and set up.

 

I agree with the underlined but I don't see how that applies to me, considering he never distanced from me at all.

 

Those posts you reference pinged like crazy to me too. To me they said he was likely hedging his bets, putting a partner he shows some deliberation (ie, distanced from) on in with a Towny he never doubts. That way, he can call his partner Town but back off/Bus if needed, and throw enough suspicion on a Towny after his flip wolf because he 'hadn't doubted me'/treated me different to other players.

 

There is also the possibility that he did this to two Townies just for WIFOM's sake. The fact that he picked two players he's notoriously good at reading (Sooh, I) to put against each other is a thing. I think the fact he gave himself wriggle room on you guys but not me is a thing (hence my I hate you Shad <3 post).

 

Town reading Monstr at that point in the game has the benefit of being seen to be 'going against the grain'. 

 

 

 

because they are good fairly non committal ways to give someone a town lean. easy to flip on if their town easy to make if their ure scum buddy without being tied to it in bands of steel

 

I was going to respond to Cass' post, but I think Dice nails it here.

 

 

I agree with the start but don't understand how the bold works. @Both of you, how is a 'definitely Town' type read easy to flip on?

 

@Dice, how many times did I use this exact play as scum with Town!you? "Dice is definitely Town!Dice!" You also know that it's a thing.

 

 

 

@Cass either Shad's clearing a teammate or he's defending town, I can see Shad doing either, in many ways he's a tactical player

 

Why are you ignoring everyone's questions to you except Zanders?

 

^ to the bold.

I am not caught up/confident in much right now, and not answering other people much isn't intentional, it's more that I know if Z's a wolf, the extent of his push on me and refusal to look elsewhere/broader could be telling for the rest of you when I flip. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol

Question!

Answer them right and I'll vote Sooh.

WHY are you Town reading me?

Let me go find something for you to answer that real quick, it's a bit older.

Yey!

 

And snap question:

 

Have you had time/ looked into me in terms of Shad? Or just on my own tone/style etc?

 

I haven't actually reread shad.  Others quoted plenty of that for me, and I just didn't find much of it super compelling.  TBH I never really do put stock in wolf reads based on ISO, especially not with good players.  Town spewing exists but wolfspew?  Shad knows better.

 

 

I also find it strange youre arguing what Shad would or wouldnt do with assumptions because we both know I read Shad pretty well.

 

I am in the Tunnel but you havent dont anything to convince me otherwise.

 

I dont feel like your involvement level is where Town!Cass should be.

 

I dont sense any manic, paranoia and voicing thoughts Town!Cass.

 

Your emotion type posts dont feel real to me.

 

Im Town and Cass honest to God I cant shake it.

 

If Im wrong Im sorry my dear but I really dont think I am.

[Eldrick4221]

I see a world where Darthe votes us and scum piles on and it's a repeat of last game.

[Zander?]

The concept of him putting 2 people he can read easily as his town reads also makes sense.

 

The point that Zander made about that removing them from potential ml bugs me.

 

What about it bugs you?

[Eldrick4221]

I won't look at Zander for pushing you if you end up town. His push makes sense. Mine mirrored his which tells me his is a towny mindset.

[Zander?]

Cass, why did you say that Zander was flat while catching up, yet say you liked his energy in a recent post (in which you also talked about Shad so early game)?

 

There was a difference in my tone/energy from early game to now so I dont dispute that coming from her.

[Eldrick4221]

 

The concept of him putting 2 people he can read easily as his town reads also makes sense.

 

The point that Zander made about that removing them from potential ml bugs me.

What about it bugs you?

Worded badly. Explained later.

[Zander?]

 

<3 Dice (I think you're the only player that fears me when scum though )

 

What's your read on me?

 

i like the questions ure asking. sounds like town solvey bfg to me. youre isoing away. tho you arnt coming up with firm thoughts out of them. wish you were here more.  town lean is about as far as i will go atm

 

Dice can you talk about Pral?

 

Has barely been here. i dont really remember a lot of what he has said and i cant get rid of the feeling that i should be voting him but as he didnt say what i thought he did i have no reason for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok this is from CASS but i messed it up

 

 

 

because they are good fairly non committal ways to give someone a town lean. easy to flip on if their town easy to make if their ure scum buddy without being tied to it in bands of steel

 

I was going to respond to Cass' post, but I think Dice nails it here.

 

 

I agree with the start but don't understand how the bold works. @Both of you, how is a 'definitely Town' type read easy to flip on?

 

@Dice, how many times did I use this exact play as scum with Town!you? "Dice is definitely Town!Dice!" You also know that it's a thing.

 

 

I DO know its a thing but you and I are not Shad. Hes trickier then we are. As for how to get away from it??  a post like "i liked when cass was doing this and this  but now shes doing  x  which i dont like and is making me reevaluate

 

flip done

 

 

Dice who you gonna vote for today and why?

 

Its the weekend and your activity level still hasnt really perked up any.

 

Why is this?

[Zander?]

Vote Count 3.07

 

Cass (1) - Zander

Sock (1) - Darthe

BFG (1) - Pral

Pral (1) - BFG

 

Not voting: Marsh, Cass, Dice, Sock

 

5 to lynch

 

DL in a little over 5 hours.

 

This is awful

 

We need to get on the same page here people!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Marsh where'd you go? :(

 

A lot of this.

 

Really want his thoughts, I know they dont mean hes right  but I want him to lay out a complete reads list with reasoning cause at least we know its what he truly believes.

 

 

 

 

 

Its interesting tho Cass you never brought that up till Darthe mentioned it.

 

 

Where did Darthe mention this?

 

 

I think you should factor in what he said about Monter imo

 

Is it? Have you looked at Shad's ISO with the perspective of 'who is he setting up here'? I find it hard to believe you read his ISO and didn't come up with the same pings I did.

 

I think this could be Town Zander with blinkers coming back at me instead of actually thinking about the question in context/considering you might be wrong, but the sus he keeps throwing my way without reconsidering anything to do with me, at any point is bad and pinging and something he'd use to his advantage beyond reason if scum.

 

 

Your question a) can't be properly answered if excluding him answering questions, and b) is excluding part of the first reason I suss you.

 

You are completely overlooking the 2 times he promoted the town reads on both of us. What THOSE said to me is more important imo.

 

Because he was giving confident town reads so early in the game, it felt like there was scum he was trying to distance from. No scum ever expects to be lynched, and the game plan is usually to slot a teammate at a Town read right off the bat. That's what it looks like he's doing with you. He town read manbat as well. Like super early in the game.

 

Pros - Eldrick considers and provides an answer and an opportunity to talk. Cons - it's all twisted with a bias against me.

 

"No scum ever expects to be lynched" is a load of bollocks, and  you're 100% wrong on the bold when it comes to players like Shad. I understand scum generally put a proportion of teammates in Town at the start to avoid having to vote them D1, but generally the players they never doubt are Town being pocketed and set up.

 

I agree with the underlined but I don't see how that applies to me, considering he never distanced from me at all.

 

Those posts you reference pinged like crazy to me too. To me they said he was likely hedging his bets, putting a partner he shows some deliberation (ie, distanced from) on in with a Towny he never doubts. That way, he can call his partner Town but back off/Bus if needed, and throw enough suspicion on a Towny after his flip wolf because he 'hadn't doubted me'/treated me different to other players.

 

There is also the possibility that he did this to two Townies just for WIFOM's sake. The fact that he picked two players he's notoriously good at reading (Sooh, I) to put against each other is a thing. I think the fact he gave himself wriggle room on you guys but not me is a thing (hence my I hate you Shad <3 post).

 

Town reading Monstr at that point in the game has the benefit of being seen to be 'going against the grain'. 

 

 

 

 

 

because they are good fairly non committal ways to give someone a town lean. easy to flip on if their town easy to make if their ure scum buddy without being tied to it in bands of steel

 

I was going to respond to Cass' post, but I think Dice nails it here.

 

 

I agree with the start but don't understand how the bold works. @Both of you, how is a 'definitely Town' type read easy to flip on?

 

@Dice, how many times did I use this exact play as scum with Town!you? "Dice is definitely Town!Dice!" You also know that it's a thing.

 

 

 

 

 

@Cass either Shad's clearing a teammate or he's defending town, I can see Shad doing either, in many ways he's a tactical player

 

Why are you ignoring everyone's questions to you except Zanders?

 

^ to the bold.

I am not caught up/confident in much right now, and not answering other people much isn't intentional, it's more that I know if Z's a wolf, the extent of his push on me and refusal to look elsewhere/broader could be telling for the rest of you when I flip. 

 

 

 

I never felt Shad made any sort of definite town read on either of us. It was actually his refusal to give such that was pinging. So yeah, he could have easily flipped that read if he needed another mislynch.

 

 

I disagree with this,

 

I feel he did all but lock clear you imo.

[Zander?]

Cass, I don't know if it's just because I'm tired, but I'm not following you on pretty much anyone (page 3 of your ISO)

 

During Day 2 you don't want to mislynch Shad if town (fair), that you mind melded which is a good sign, then agree with Dice that town! Shad would have fought harder, while still pushing a Zander/Random team???

 

But you've played long enough to know that the correct technical play is to lynch an un cc'd cop view when not lylo. And if Shad had flipped town, then he's have gone one for one, maybe one for two. Why was this so paralysing?

 

You dislike Darthe's early posts, agree with Zander they're null as they're stuff he'd post as town, then will cry if he and Shad are mafia?

 

You like me light town reading Pral, yet seem to have him as mafia?

 

I think my assessment of questions and no thoughts was harsh, there are thoughts in there, would have to ISO the games linked tomsee if there's a difference in ratio based on alignment

 

You said that early game Zander was flats, yet recently posted that you liked his excitement?

 

 

Thanks for the explanation on the focus on Zander

 

Can you give a read list with as much detail about changing reads as you can? :puppydogeyes:

 

 

 

I currently don't know what to make of this, I want to say that mafia! Cass is cleaner, but that meta's well over a year old. She seems to agree with Zander that she's more subdued than normal, but says it's out of game

 

I dont think Town!Cass actually doubts the UN CC'D Doc in that instance.

 

I mean I think she'd question it some but she knows that if Shad flipped Town it was 1 for 1 at worst.

 

She did it imo to create WIFOM, test the waters to see if she could find any Tonwies who would maybe believe her enough to either try to get Random ML'd or see at worst if they lynch could be pushed elsewhere imo.

[Zander?]

Zander where did you go?

 

Im here-ish

 

Ive got my cousin home from away so Im gonna be in and out.

 

Whats up, anything you wanna discuss?

 

Im almost caught up.

[Zander?]

 

The concept of him putting 2 people he can read easily as his town reads also makes sense.

 

The point that Zander made about that removing them from potential ml bugs me.

 

^

 

 

Is there a point?!?!?!

 

 

 

 

ok lmk when youre caught up

 start being villagery

 

really wanna hear your take on Sooh/Eld

 

*blink*

This interaction looks really good for Zander, and further confirms my read there.

 

 

I dont think this should by itself be viewed as anything other then Null imo

[Zander?]

I'm trying to organise my thoughts people, but ftr I'm utterly exhausted, missing huge chunks of the game and second-guessing myself every thought I have.

 

I'll go through recent comments and chuck my 2c in / reply with what I can.

 

Cass could youplease just drop a reads list with all the reasoning you can.

 

I read what youre saying here but I think youre prolly Scum so I want it for reference but in case Im wrong on you we will have your thoughts/reads to look at.

[Zander?]

 

I haven't been frustrated because I'm controlling my play time better and people aren't grilling me for stupid reasons. It's quite refreshing actually.

 

Cass is fine Dice is probably fine (Zander) you've looked a lot better than you did in the first 24 hours. Darthe's apathetic which is annoying but typical for his town game. NotBob's been a lot more active than his last wolf game.

 

I stand by Sooh's tone being villagery but it's a lot harder for me to read her when she's being defensive and I hope to see scum hunting in the posts I've yet to read.

 

amega and Pral don't exist.

 

Felt like Random has been misrepping things and I'm curious how Calder responded to my question irt his Eldrick/Sooh reads.

 

Need to focus on reading more talking less.

I realize that amega and pral were basically non-entities at this point, but he clumped so many people into the first paragraph that I just don't see both teammates being in that group.

 

If the traitor wasn't recruited, this is a wash, but we have to assume one way or the other to look for clues.

 

That being said, I think because of this list that there's a scum in pral/bfg that he conveniently didn't have to talk about.

 

 

I agree and seeing how he lumped Calder/Random both Villagers together there I really think theres prolly one in the red and one in the blue.

[Zander?]

 

Cass, I don't know if it's just because I'm tired, but I'm not following you on pretty much anyone (page 3 of your ISO)

 

During Day 2 you don't want to mislynch Shad if town (fair), that you mind melded which is a good sign, then agree with Dice that town! Shad would have fought harder, while still pushing a Zander/Random team???

 

But you've played long enough to know that the correct technical play is to lynch an un cc'd cop view when not lylo. And if Shad had flipped town, then he's have gone one for one, maybe one for two. Why was this so paralysing?

 

You dislike Darthe's early posts, agree with Zander they're null as they're stuff he'd post as town, then will cry if he and Shad are mafia?

 

You like me light town reading Pral, yet seem to have him as mafia?

 

I think my assessment of questions and no thoughts was harsh, there are thoughts in there, would have to ISO the games linked tomsee if there's a difference in ratio based on alignment

 

You said that early game Zander was flats, yet recently posted that you liked his excitement?

 

 

Thanks for the explanation on the focus on Zander

 

Can you give a read list with as much detail about changing reads as you can? :puppydogeyes:

 

 

 

I currently don't know what to make of this, I want to say that mafia! Cass is cleaner, but that meta's well over a year old. She seems to agree with Zander that she's more subdued than normal, but says it's out of game

Um.......what?

 

 

 

"The correct technical play is to lynch the un-cc'd cop"

 

Lololol

 

BFG you know which alignment wants to lynch the un ccd doc right!?!?!?!?!?

 

lolololololololol

 

 

 

 

The concept of him putting 2 people he can read easily as his town reads also makes sense.

 

The point that Zander made about that removing them from potential ml bugs me.

^

Bugs in that it makes sense for him to list a scum as a confident town read so he never has to explain why he didn't vote them.

 

I.e. felt like he was doing that to you.

 

 

Ok i see you answered this for me.

 

Going through shad ISO is draining me. He comes off so clean and it's hard to find anything.

 

My reason for looking was because Cass said that his read on her never changed. As I just said, that is why it's suspicious. I'm not sure why I thought confirming that would make her look better, like she was trying to state.

 

What do you think of how he placed Monstr?

[Eldrick4221]

His read on Monstr was a really early one, and an easy one too. It's null

[Zander?]

I'm actually against no lynch at f6.

 

F6 and F5 are mechanically the same. If we vote wrong, scum wins. Only difference is when.

 

I would rather be majority be 4 votes over 3 votes if 2 scum are alive.

 

Worry about this when its time to decide to cross it.

 

If we lynch Scum today obv this is not an issue at all.

 

Need the info to make the right decision.

 

But if were up against it, it will give us a better statistical at least chance of getting it right my narrowing the choice pool after the NK.

[Zander?]

I see a world where Darthe votes us and scum piles on and it's a repeat of last game.

 

If hes Town and still alive he better not snap vote like that again at lylo!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Eldrick4221]

 

I'm actually against no lynch at f6.

 

F6 and F5 are mechanically the same. If we vote wrong, scum wins. Only difference is when.

 

I would rather be majority be 4 votes over 3 votes if 2 scum are alive.

Worry about this when its time to decide to cross it.

 

If we lynch Scum today obv this is not an issue at all.

 

Need the info to make the right decision.

 

But if were up against it, it will give us a better statistical at least chance of getting it right my narrowing the choice pool after the NK.

Of course.

[Zander?]

I won't look at Zander for pushing you if you end up town. His push makes sense. Mine mirrored his which tells me his is a towny mindset.

 

If she flips Town and if youre a Villager you should reevaluate everyone atp imo.

[Eldrick4221]

 

I see a world where Darthe votes us and scum piles on and it's a repeat of last game.

If hes Town and still alive he better not snap vote like that again at lylo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you want to risk it?

[Eldrick4221]

 

I won't look at Zander for pushing you if you end up town. His push makes sense. Mine mirrored his which tells me his is a towny mindset.

If she flips Town and if youre a Villager you should reevaluate everyone atp imo.

You are as close to confirmed town as you can possibly be to me.

 

If you are scum you are the deepest wolf I have ever seen and deserve the win.

 

No. I am not reevaluating you.

[Zander?]

His read on Monstr was a really early one, and an easy one too. It's null

 

OK

 

Heres the thing, Shad gave 3 easy Town reds iirc, Sock/MonCass/Dice(?) i think was the last tho I may be wrong.

 

I dont think he just does that with ONLY Townies imo.

[Eldrick4221]

That's my point too lol.

 

You asked about Monstr. A read that happened super early in the game before Cass subbed in. It was purely off of tone, and am easy read to make. It was null. I thought he was town by tone atp too.

 

I think you are right about the 3rd being dice