MAFIA KART WII [BASIC] - Mafia Sweep

[Calder]

 

 

 

If your scum Celeste, my entire vision falls apart. Me and you have to both be town for my scenario to be even remotely close. I think you are though. Because me, you, and Zev are the top 3 possibilities in the current game state (which scum would not want to evolve).

And the wording of this statement...does not..sit...right...with....me....

 

 

Both have to be town. As in it can't just be me or none of that is right.

 

But you're talking about your alignment as though it's a hypothetical. You know your alignment. So why would the need for you and Celeste both being town have any influence on your scenario.

 

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your process, so explain it to me please.

 

 

Your really grasping and I am not going further into it. Obv I know my alignment. So the unkown is Celeste's alignment.

[Calder]

 

 

what's the point of calder v. seph again?

 

calder is hard to read. Seph is acting weird. what information is there there? i don't even know enough to say it can't be w/w.

 

don't fault the messenger.

 

this entire thing seems frivolous to me.

 

 

Frivolous? FRIVOLOUS?

 

Why yes. Everything in this game is friviolous.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

Frivolous? FRIVOLOUS?

 

Why yes. Everything in this game is friviolous.

 

=|

 

well i am going to read you two independent of your interactions.

[Lizabeth]

The abuse of jungian analysis is killing me

Should you be dead then?

 

My home site is Personality cafe, so sue me :D

[Sili Quirrels]

i guess unless one of you flips, but meh.

[Darthe]

Oh, and Chris is going to mock me for this...but do people mind sharing there MBTI types with me if they know them?

 

For....raisins

entirely, yes.  plz dont do this to me

[Darthe]

 

The abuse of jungian analysis is killing me

Should you be dead then?

 

My home site is Personality cafe, so sue me :D

 

you're using the mbti like it's a horoscope tho

[Calder]

 

Oh, and Chris is going to mock me for this...but do people mind sharing there MBTI types with me if they know them?

 

For....raisins

entirely, yes.  plz dont do this to me

 

 

Is she talking about those damn personality types?

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

And I see I'm talking to myself

 

anyway, I have to go back to work but I would looooove for people to answer my questions.

 

Oh, and Clov - how are you feeling about Seph now? Is your vote still on him? are you comfortable with that?

 

Celeste - where are you? What are your thoughts?

 

Calder, how do you feel about my answers to you and with continuing to leave my vote lying there on ya? And are you still okay with lynching Seph?

 

And I've asked this before but it hasn't been answered: Hallia, Sili, and Thane (and anyone else who cares to answer) - if it comes down to Calder vs. zev who would you rather lynch? And if neither, who would you lynch in their place?

 

Okay...Liz out!

 

I think you feel I may be scum, so of course your vote makes sense on me. But, I feel you are trying to back into reasons for the vote without really having them. I mean in truth what would my lynch provide town info wise over even someone like Zev? I am honestly curious. 

 

My vote remains on Seph. Have no reservations on his lynch.

 

Oooh, glad Zander quoted this because I missed it!

 

Sooooo many problems with this one...where should I begin...

 

How am I trying to back into reasons for voting you? Yours has been the clearest vote I've made all game so far.

 

Let me recap.

 

1. I did a big catchup of the thread on the first night of d1, threw around a few observations, pokes, and jokes. Then I followed up with a post that said that my serious vote was on you. Then I waited.

 

2. I got no questioning from you about why I chose you out of all the other special snowflakes to throw my vote at.

 

3. zander asked me "why calder"

 

4. At some point I explained that I expected more...let's call it "oomph" from a strong player. I didn't really see you doing anything meaningful in the thread. You threw your vote at Seph early, commented on Clov joining you, but I couldn't really see you exploring or pushing anything else. You can fill me in on anything I might have missed.

 

So explain to me how that's backing into a read on you? If you're confused, let's be clear: you are still my strongest scum read, and becoming stronger. The main reason I've considered you null is that other people who know you well suggest that your play in this game is within both your town and scum ranges. But going with my gut, with no other point of reference for a POE, I think you're scum. Still waiting for someone to throw me a better candidate.

 

If you think I should be switching to Seph, tell me why.

 

As for what your lynch would provide town over Zev? I think there's a very good chance you're scum. I think Zev could be scum, but I don't have any real data to go on.  If someone can convince me that you're not scum, I'd be more than happy to switch my vote over to Zev (if nothing stronger pops up). So if we lynch you and I'm right about you, we get rid of scum! So yay! (for us...not for you or your team...but you'll have my sympathies, I swear )

 

Also, people will probably be happy enough to lynch Zev tomorrow if he doesn't show up. And if he is scum in hiding, he'll probably be an easier lynch once he shows up because as a newbie he probably won't be able to smoothtalk his way out of lynches like you probably could.

 

If he's showed up in the meantime (i have several pages to catch up on) we'll see what shifts....

 

 

You keep stating this "strong player" thing without any understanding of how I play and your entire case is based around me not responding to a "vote calder" post without any reasoning. On no universe do I ever respond to those. Someone could do that at L1 and I wouldn't respond. It isn't worth it to me, as I like the suspicion and the person that does it wants attention and will make their intentions clear anyway.

 

My push on Seph is laid out clearly in the thread. You are welcome to see my clearly laid out feelings on that.

 

My whole thing isn't about the vote issue. My main issue with you not asking was the discrepancy between Zander's reaction to you vs. Celeste. So more about Zander than you.

 

dammit, I'm not supposed to be responding...still 5 pages to catch up on.

 

Anyway, basically as a strong player I hold you to a higher standard. Fair or unfair. But I don't have a lot to go on meta wise with most people in this game because it's my first time playing here.

 

But in my experience if someone is a strong player, I'm not looking for blatant scumslips from them. I'm looking for mindset clues. And the early mindset clues I was picking up from you were not good. And since you've started posting - seemingly in response to pressure - I haven't really liked some of the additional mindset clues. But I'm keeping in mind that I might be misreading your process and how you think, so I'd like to get a better understanding of your process and how you think.

 

Thank you for humouring me :)

[Lizabeth]

I'm really torn on how to handle this Liz-Calder thing.  Liz is almost certainly town here, and I'm relatively comfortable saying Calder is...but I like the points she's making and kinda want to see how he handles it.  

 

It's almost like watching a Swag/IR fight, except Liz is nowhere near as good as Swag (no offense, sweetheart <3).

[Lizabeth]

And Liz. The only thing that makes a player good or bad is results. Presenting incorrect points and inaccurate suspicions in the acceptable format is worth nothing. Lynch Seph and everything else fades away, as town enjoys nabbing scum on D1.

It's your results as scum that I'm most worried about.

 

Null means nothing when you're dealing with a player who is good at sliding by when they are scum. Which is while I'll keep the pressure on you until I feel better about you.

 

Clov brought up similarties between you and a player from my site that we call Dizzy. In which case Clov should be very much aware of why I'm not willing to back off when your play has my spidey senses tingling.

 

Not saying that I won't back off if there's a clearer candidate from my perspective or if my spidey senses stop tingling around you.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

zev is a new player. Dont want to lynch him therefore. His alignment shouldnt matter.

 

Anyway zander is offbase there.

 

Come again???

 

Ive got np with a new player getting a D1 pass usually unless its awful  Im not advocating for his lynch.

 

What am I off base on?

 

 

You said I went after hallia because she was afk and drew a line between that and why I am ignoring that Zev is afk.

 

Doesn't really work. As we all know, or should know, reads are steeped in meta, context, and nuance, plus I didn't go after hallia because she was afk. At most you could say I said she wasn't putting in any effort and I didn't like that but then again I retracted that line of thinking almost immediately.

 

 

Giving Zev a pass is an ethical consideration.  The particular game state and our alignments does not factor for me.

 

Chris...please explain. My head hurts

[Sili Quirrels]

by, *why i am ignoring that zev is afk*, i meant *how I am ignoring that zev is afk*

[Calder]

 

And Liz. The only thing that makes a player good or bad is results. Presenting incorrect points and inaccurate suspicions in the acceptable format is worth nothing. Lynch Seph and everything else fades away, as town enjoys nabbing scum on D1.

It's your results as scum that I'm most worried about.

 

Null means nothing when you're dealing with a player who is good at sliding by when they are scum. Which is while I'll keep the pressure on you until I feel better about you.

 

Clov brought up similarties between you and a player from my site that we call Dizzy. In which case Clov should be very much aware of why I'm not willing to back off when your play has my spidey senses tingling.

 

Not saying that I won't back off if there's a clearer candidate from my perspective or if my spidey senses stop tingling around you.

 

 

Ok. Fair. Also, this Dizzy sounds great.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

And Liz. The only thing that makes a player good or bad is results. Presenting incorrect points and inaccurate suspicions in the acceptable format is worth nothing. Lynch Seph and everything else fades away, as town enjoys nabbing scum on D1.

this gave me a good laugh. thanks

 

 

You have multiple times now shown you are lurking around as you respond when called on. Why as town wouldn't you have been more involved then?

 

Why as town would you go from answering everything said against you? Then on the second time trying to brush it off? Then trying to sell being over it when it has been a civil conversation throughout?

 

This feels hypocritical to me.

 

Not saying you're wrong about Seph. It just seems hypocritical when it feels to me like you stepped up your contributions in response to pressure.

 

*somebody tell me to stop posting until I've caught up! *

[Lizabeth]

 

 

And Liz. The only thing that makes a player good or bad is results. Presenting incorrect points and inaccurate suspicions in the acceptable format is worth nothing. Lynch Seph and everything else fades away, as town enjoys nabbing scum on D1.

It's your results as scum that I'm most worried about.

 

Null means nothing when you're dealing with a player who is good at sliding by when they are scum. Which is while I'll keep the pressure on you until I feel better about you.

 

Clov brought up similarties between you and a player from my site that we call Dizzy. In which case Clov should be very much aware of why I'm not willing to back off when your play has my spidey senses tingling.

 

Not saying that I won't back off if there's a clearer candidate from my perspective or if my spidey senses stop tingling around you.

 

 

Ok. Fair. Also, this Dizzy sounds great.

 

 

 

Dizzy is awesome

[Calder]

 

 

 

And Liz. The only thing that makes a player good or bad is results. Presenting incorrect points and inaccurate suspicions in the acceptable format is worth nothing. Lynch Seph and everything else fades away, as town enjoys nabbing scum on D1.

this gave me a good laugh. thanks

 

 

You have multiple times now shown you are lurking around as you respond when called on. Why as town wouldn't you have been more involved then?

 

Why as town would you go from answering everything said against you? Then on the second time trying to brush it off? Then trying to sell being over it when it has been a civil conversation throughout?

 

This feels hypocritical to me.

 

Not saying you're wrong about Seph. It just seems hypocritical when it feels to me like you stepped up your contributions in response to pressure.

 

*somebody tell me to stop posting until I've caught up! *

 

 

There is a difference between going after someone, which I have been doing, and what Sep has done which is to play pure defense. He has been around to argue back, but not contributed in any other meaningful ways.

[Calder]

Liz is persistent. A respectable trait.

[Lizabeth]

Was that question to you, Liz?  I don't think it was, and it really doesn't make any sense being directed at you...

[Lizabeth]

 

 

Where does your vote go if I tell you you're almost certainly wrong about Calder because I'm the best Calder-reader in the world and I've never been wrong about him?  I know it's not going on Celeste.  

 

Actually, on that note, pretend he's my Celeste.  Now what?

 

 

FEO Liz:

 

 

Do not pretend Calder is my A. Celeste though 

 

 

Assuming that I trust that you're town and not his scummate trying to save him?

 

My vote would probably go on Zev.

 

 

Don't need saving. But, your welcome to keep trying.

 

This is the kind of comment that makes me hope someone will get lynched just because...

[Lizabeth]

I'm not sure who to vote for. Most of you are null except for the people who have spoken up.

What happened to Darthe?

[Calder]

 

 

 

Where does your vote go if I tell you you're almost certainly wrong about Calder because I'm the best Calder-reader in the world and I've never been wrong about him?  I know it's not going on Celeste.  

 

Actually, on that note, pretend he's my Celeste.  Now what?

 

 

FEO Liz:

 

 

Do not pretend Calder is my A. Celeste though 

 

 

Assuming that I trust that you're town and not his scummate trying to save him?

 

My vote would probably go on Zev.

 

 

Don't need saving. But, your welcome to keep trying.

 

This is the kind of comment that makes me hope someone will get lynched just because...

 

 

Well that's not a very townie thing to say now Liz.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

Where does your vote go if I tell you you're almost certainly wrong about Calder because I'm the best Calder-reader in the world and I've never been wrong about him?  I know it's not going on Celeste.  

 

Actually, on that note, pretend he's my Celeste.  Now what?

 

 

FEO Liz:

 

 

Do not pretend Calder is my A. Celeste though 

 

 

Assuming that I trust that you're town and not his scummate trying to save him?

 

My vote would probably go on Zev.

 

 

Assuming that you trust I'm not the person you want to get into a fight with when I'm deciding somebody's off limits.  What you think my alignment is would be secondary.

 

For the record, I'm not prepared to put that much trust into Calder being town.  And I'm certainly going to say he's off limits.  I just want to see where your head's at.

 

 

You know how I respond to threats....I'll get into a fight with anybody.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not going to support a Calder lynch at this point, unless he's the runaway counterwagon to one of my top townies.  Who do you think is a significantly better candidate, though?

Pourquoi pas? What do you see as the value to keeping him around at this point?

 

And who would you want to convince me to put my vote behind?

 

 

 

What's the point in keeping Calder around. We can all see he is just tunnelling Seph.

 

What's the point of keeping Liz around. We can all see he is just tunnelling Calder.

 

I don't know. I guess we should kill them both. I mean they are obviously both useless.

 

 

I'm not just tunneling you though. I've cast a far wider net than you have. I questioned probably everybody in this thread.

 

if you're feelings are hurt, then I'm sorry not sorry. But you seemed very consent to sit back and rest on being null read until it became obvious that I wasn't letting up on you. So that doesn't mean you're scum. But it certainly means that you needed to be pushed.

 

 

 

 

Thing is about zev, this is his first game, and we shouldn't lynch him based on that alone in my opinion.

Ugh. Just ugh.

 

If he were playing but playing scummy, I could go with that argument.

 

But he's not playing. Which suggests that you're more invested in him staying in the game than he is.

 

 

 

This doesn't make any goddamn sense.  If he were playing scummy, we shouldn't lynch him?  But the fact he's inactive means we should be willing to consider it?

 

 

What I mean is that newbie players are often mislynched for looking scummy when they're just newbs. At least that gives us something to read and evaluate in later days and it's easier to lynch newb mafia than experienced mafia down the road.

 

When someone is inactive, we got nothing. So then clearing them on D1 is a better option than having to figure them out on D2, 3, or whatever day it takes for people to notice that they're sitting there uncleared.

 

 

 

 

Where does your vote go if I tell you you're almost certainly wrong about Calder because I'm the best Calder-reader in the world and I've never been wrong about him?  I know it's not going on Celeste.  

 

Actually, on that note, pretend he's my Celeste.  Now what?

 

 

FEO Liz:

 

 

Do not pretend Calder is my A. Celeste though 

 

 

Assuming that I trust that you're town and not his scummate trying to save him?

 

My vote would probably go on Zev.

 

 

Assuming that you trust I'm not the person you want to get into a fight with when I'm deciding somebody's off limits.  What you think my alignment is would be secondary.

 

For the record, I'm not prepared to put that much trust into Calder being town.  And I'm certainly going to say he's off limits.  I just want to see where your head's at.

 

 

You heard it straight from the mayor people. Calder is off limits.

 

[Lizabeth]

You heard it straight from the mayor people. Calder is off limits.

 

 

 

Oh, and i forgot to respond to that last part:

 

1. Who died and elected him mayor?

 

2. I have no limits.

 

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

Where does your vote go if I tell you you're almost certainly wrong about Calder because I'm the best Calder-reader in the world and I've never been wrong about him?  I know it's not going on Celeste.  

 

Actually, on that note, pretend he's my Celeste.  Now what?

 

 

FEO Liz:

 

 

Do not pretend Calder is my A. Celeste though 

 

 

Assuming that I trust that you're town and not his scummate trying to save him?

 

My vote would probably go on Zev.

 

 

Don't need saving. But, your welcome to keep trying.

 

This is the kind of comment that makes me hope someone will get lynched just because...

 

 

Well that's not a very townie thing to say now Liz.

 

Neither was what you said, quite frankly.